Why did Quebec not get a team?

Rowlet

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Oct 13, 2018
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QC is the perfect emergency option, you never want to expand there because in case of an emergency you can put a team there like the NHL did with the Thrashers to WPG
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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Quebec is given opportunities to show they want a team every year during the preseason and they draw under 10k most of the time.


As @Shwag33 said, not enough corporate money, etc. plenty of reasons Quebec keeps getting left out.

Preseason games are not exciting or worth the over inflated prices to see less than quality NHL action. These are not a fair estimate for any city wanting a team. I for one wouldn't pay money to go watch exhibition games, they aren't that great, and most of the time, it is AHL rosters with a few good NHLers anyhow.
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
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QC is the perfect emergency option, you never want to expand there because in case of an emergency you can put a team there like the NHL did with the Thrashers to WPG
If the Coyotes end up moving and just go to Houston the reactions on this site are going to be pretty funny.

Would having the Nordiques back be cool? Yes. Is that a good reason to put them there? No.
 

Rowlet

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Oct 13, 2018
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If the Coyotes end up moving and just go to Houston the reactions on this site are going to be pretty funny.

Would having the Nordiques back be cool? Yes. Is that a good reason to put them there? No.

Coyotes would likely stay west as it would jumble up the divisions too much
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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QC is the perfect emergency option, you never want to expand there because in case of an emergency you can put a team there like the NHL did with the Thrashers to WPG

giphy.gif
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
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To add to this....

1 there is an additional 4 million people outside of metro Seattle to market to in the US
2 Seattle got serious screwed over and backstabbed in prior expansions
3 Quebec had its chance
4 Seattle does not have a saturated market. They have baseball, football, soccer, and Major ncaa college. There is no winter sports with no nba team.
5. It has large corporate HQ located in this area which can get higher revenue from arena revenue and league sponsorship deals.

Lol.... no they didn't.

Not sure what time your referring to but when Vegas was given a team Seattle didnt have their **** figured out yet. They also have had no viable arena until this huge renovation plan was announced. Quebec City is the one thats been screwed over and backstabbed.

"Quebec had its chance" is the dumbest thing ever. So did Atlanta, Denver, Twin Cities and Winnipeg...... all got second chances with 3/4 working out to this day.
 
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Voight

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Feb 8, 2012
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QC is the perfect emergency option, you never want to expand there because in case of an emergency you can put a team there like the NHL did with the Thrashers to WPG

People keep saying that but Uncle Gary seems to be content with various Sunbelt teams bleeding money.

You left out reason number one. They did not apply.

I dont think they had a chance too this time... NHL had its blinders on and only cared for Seattle. It would have been a losing battle for them anyway, Bettman could care less about Canada.
 
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MSSLYNX

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Jul 27, 2009
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because no one would want to play in Quebec. terrible city
Awful comment my friend. Buffalo and Winnipeg say hi. NHL players are rock stars in QC and unknown Joes in Columbus and Arizona.

And to the poster saying there are not enough big companies, how many suites are there in an arena? You dont need 500 companies. We already know there are more than enough fans. New arena is there.
 

MSSLYNX

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Preseason games are not exciting or worth the over inflated prices to see less than quality NHL action. These are not a fair estimate for any city wanting a team. I for one wouldn't pay money to go watch exhibition games, they aren't that great, and most of the time, it is AHL rosters with a few good NHLers anyhow.
Cmon now. 10 000 is more than half the actual teams have for preseason games with their team on the ice.

And half the city despise their former rivals. I am not paying to see Boston B team vs Mtl B team.

Add 5000 more fans and still they would not have a team today. Crap.
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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Cmon now. 10 000 is more than half the actual teams have for preseason games with their team on the ice.

And half the city despise their former rivals. I am not paying to see Boston B team vs Mtl B team.

Add 5000 more fans and still they would not have a team today. Crap.

What are you getting at? I was on the defending side, that preseason games don't determine whether a city would or could support a team. I also stated I wouldn't pay to see exhibition games and that includes the Wings in exhibition. Confused by your point!
 

MSSLYNX

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Jul 27, 2009
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What are you getting at? I was on the defending side, that preseason games don't determine whether a city would or could support a team. I also stated I wouldn't pay to see exhibition games and that includes the Wings in exhibition. Confused by your point!
Yeah i am going in same direction you are.
 
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Grudy0

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Mar 16, 2011
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Maryland
A WHL team is fine but does it come anywhere near what an NHL franchise can do? Quebec City also has a rich hockey history with teams at almost every level (CHL, AHL, NHL, etc) Given a choice between the two markets I'd place an NHL team in QC any day of the week.
Seattle has almost as rich of a hockey history. After the Metropolitans won the Cup in 1917, the league folded in the mid 1920's. Upon rebirth of the PCHL during WWII, Seattle has had hockey ever since, with a brief interruption of a couple of seasons in the mid 1970's, due to the shuffling deck chairs of the WHA.
 

Grudy0

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Mar 16, 2011
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Just watch any interviews with Jeremy Jacobs to see the mindset of thr NHL brass. They only see glitters and they are snobish at Hell. It's still the sunny dream of going to a fantasy land where nobody knows hockey. These are stupid people who don't get that everything should go to a grassroot level of building up your brand before undertaking expansion. The UFC has grown cause it goes where the demand is, the NHL goes to where a market might exist in a Future World. You have to completely exaust the root of your homebase before seeing things elsewhere.

Instead of going to places that love hockey and that by playing there will give you more hockey players, they are going to artificial territories with no grassroot with people that will exit the place at the first sight of the team sucking. Even Vegas, just watch if they start sucking in a few years.
Let me see if I have this right:

"Hockey" needs to place franchises where there is a grassroots "love of the game".

And then the comparison is to UFC, where anyone would be lucky that two percent of the filled arena have ever participated in UFC.

The idea to go where the demand is for UFC can be applied to the same ticket drive that Seattle held. Outside of Winnipeg, the ticket drive for Seattle is also an anomaly of big demand for the product. I just don't understand the hate.
 

Mike Jones

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Apr 12, 2007
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Seattle has almost as rich of a hockey history. After the Metropolitans won the Cup in 1917, the league folded in the mid 1920's. Upon rebirth of the PCHL during WWII, Seattle has had hockey ever since, with a brief interruption of a couple of seasons in the mid 1970's, due to the shuffling deck chairs of the WHA.
QC has all of this history and more plus they have a new arena that's already good to go.
 

MSSLYNX

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Jul 27, 2009
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Quebec Remparts vs Seattle Thunderbird battle of junior hockey attendance?

Not even close. Seattle under 5000 (capacity of 6500) while Quebec draws over 9000 average every year, 13000 + average 15-16.

Hockeydb figures.

I know fans support seem less important than tv revenues, median income or growing possibilities. If someone could give me tv revenues numbers, i would like that.
 
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Silencio

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Nov 6, 2006
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Preseason games are not exciting or worth the over inflated prices to see less than quality NHL action. These are not a fair estimate for any city wanting a team. I for one wouldn't pay money to go watch exhibition games, they aren't that great, and most of the time, it is AHL rosters with a few good NHLers anyhow.

It's a fair point, but Montreal has been selling out their MLB exhibition games for years and now the commisioner is openly talking about how they're top of the list for the next expansion. These things do matter.
 

Grudy0

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Mar 16, 2011
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Lol.... no they didn't.

Not sure what time your referring to but when Vegas was given a team Seattle didnt have their s#it figured out yet. They also have had no viable arena until this huge renovation plan was announced. Quebec City is the one thats been screwed over and backstabbed.

"Quebec had its chance" is the dumbest thing ever. So did Atlanta, Denver, Twin Cities and Winnipeg...... all got second chances with 3/4 working out to this day.
Seattle did get screwed over during expansions:

The criteria for the 1967 expansion was that a market had to have pro sports teams - that left out Seattle, even though the Totems of the WHL were fairly successful.

In 1974, the NHL granted Seattle a conditional expansion franchise (along with Denver). Later in 1975, the Penguins and the Scouts were in financial trouble and almost moved. Vince Abbey was to be owner of the Seattle franchise, but it was revoked because of financial concerns. However, there was a lawsuit against the NHL that lasted for nine years if I recall right, which finally confirmed the NHL has the right to pick who is and is not in its ownership club.

Then that 1990 expansion push that ended up with Ottawa and Tampa Bay - the then-owner of the NBA Sonics Barry Ackerley simply screwed over his partners, torpedoing the expansion bid by walking into the Board of Governors meeting and withdrawing the bid, immediately before the ownership group was scheduled to present their case in front of the Board of Governors.

So it isn't like there haven't been problems - Seattle has likely been the most snakebitten market with respect to the NHL in modern times, surpassing Cleveland during the "Original Six" era.

People keep saying that but Uncle Gary seems to be content with various Sunbelt teams bleeding money.

I dont think they had a chance too this time... NHL had its blinders on and only cared for Seattle. It would have been a losing battle for them anyway, Bettman could care less about Canada.
It isn't like there's much "Uncle Gary" can do. He cannot relocate teams - that's the responsibility of the teams' ownership.

Then again, when both the Thrashers and the Coyotes were problems, "Uncle Gary" was able to direct the Thrashers to Winnipeg. Seems like True North had been a good partner to the League and were rewarded with a relocated team.
 
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Djp

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Jul 28, 2012
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Lol.... no they didn't.

Not sure what time your referring to but when Vegas was given a team Seattle didnt have their **** figured out yet. They also have had no viable arena until this huge renovation plan was announced. Quebec City is the one thats been screwed over and backstabbed.

"Quebec had its chance" is the dumbest thing ever. So did Atlanta, Denver, Twin Cities and Winnipeg...... all got second chances with 3/4 working out to this day.

try back in the 70s expansion period and in the early 90s.
Given checkered NHL expansion history, league treading carefully with Seattle on franchise launch year

above is just one article--but its been talked about in various stories over the years. One story was from the 90s when San Jose was awarded a franchise they were going to get one then some back deal was done pulling it away. A big part of it was the NBA blocking NHL from coming in.

Key Arena was viable one designed for both sports. part of the deal that was done had the Sonics redesigning the arena for basketball only so trying to play a hockey game was like how the Islanders were in Barkleys

Quebec Remparts vs Seattle Thunderbird battle of junior hockey attendance?

Not even close. Seattle under 5000 (capacity of 6500) while Quebec draws over 9000 average every year, 13000 + average 15-16.

Hockeydb figures.

I know fans support seem less important than tv revenues, median income or growing possibilities. If someone could give me tv revenues numbers, i would like that.


Seattle Thunderbird are located in Kent a southeast suburb. Everett is located north of Seattle. There is no team in Seattle. instead look at combine crowd size. Everett arena is a larger facility of around 9,000
 
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jfhabs

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May 21, 2015
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Similar case to Winnipeg. Expand into the big markets ($$), relocate to the smaller, niche markets (WPG, QBC etc) is the logical thing for the NHL to do. The smaller markets may have a hard time coughing up the expansion fee, where as it's likely no big deal for a groups like in Vegas and Seattle.

As long as Quebec is ready on the sidelines, they will almost certainly get the next relocation. It's just a matter of who, and when.
Exactly. But, it should take 6-7 years minimum unless it's Ottawa in the next few. Floride has an agreement with the City for 7-8years. Arizona will most likely move to Houston, big market and central division still mais sense there.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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That would be because I thought they'd sent in an application alongside Vegas and that that application was still 'active'.

AFAIK, that bid was put on hold by the bidder. The $C had just dropped quite sharply changing the financial picture quite a bit. Now the $C has recovered a little but the price of an expansion franchise has escalated by 30%. Don't know if anyone is willing to pay 875-900mil $C to put a team in QC.

The Panthers are currently valued at $295m by Forbes. Add a bit of a premium (seems like they always offer a little above market), pay 320. The NHL would demand a transfer fee but those are a lot less than entry fees. Say 100m. With those numbers QC could get a team for ~550-575m $C. Wait until the 2023 out clause in the Panthers lease deal or pay a lump sum to get out of it, if that buyout is not prohibitive, say another 50m.

The whole league gets healthier. Total revenue grows. Revenue sharing costs for all other teams go down. Every owner gets 2-3 mil in their pockets from the transfer fee (depending on how much the league keeps). The league no longer has the embarrassment of one its teams not being able to give away tickets. That last should be huge. For some reason the NHL doesn't seem to care.

The downside is the loss of a regional rivalry with TBL. Don't know how much that is worth when the 2 teams are always far apart in on ice quality. I don't think that rivalry has ever really developed.
 

MSSLYNX

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Jul 27, 2009
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Seattle Thunderbird are located in Kent a southeast suburb. Everett is located north of Seattle. There is no team in Seattle. instead look at combine crowd size. Everett arena is a larger facility of around 9,000
Thanks for that info. Didnt know that.

Everett draws less than 5000 right? Thats pretty much my point.

Seattle metro is 3.7 millions. Quebec metro is 800. Quebec draws as much as 2 teams. And there are 2 other teams within 90 minutes drive from Quebec.

Quebec league has teams really close to each other (Victoriaville and Drummondville). 40 minutes drive. Never any traffic. Why combine crowds?
 

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