Why did Chicago reclaim Bobby Hull in 1979 only for him to never play for them?

[Michael Whiteacre]

Bobby Hull spent his first 15 seasons in the NHL representing one of the Original Six franchises in the Chicago Blackhawks where he won the 1960-61 Stanley Cup at 22 years old. By the time he left the Blackhawks and the NHL after 1971-72, the elder Hull joined the WHA where he found a home with the Winnipeg Jets. Sure, Bobby Hull was a perennial All-Star caliber player in Chi-Town, but he only cracked the 100+ point mark once with them.

It wasn't until he moved to the WHA and the Winnipeg Jets that Bobby Hull had more seasons where he had 100+ points. He continued to be an All-Star caliber player for the Jets. It's debatable as to whether Bobby Hull had his best years and made the most impact. Some say his best years were with the Chicago Blackhawks where he played for the longest time at 15 seasons where he was a perennial All-Star, while others say his best years were with the Winnipeg Jets where he remained an All-Star type of player but more importantly, his best seasons in terms of individual statistics and numbers.

After the WHA was about to close and fold, Bobby Hull had no choice but to go back to the NHL after 1978-79, when the Chicago Blackhawks apparently took him back prior to 1979-80. You'd think he'd have a nice homecoming with the team he had his best team-oriented success with, but for some reason, he didn't don the Hawks jersey in '79-'80 as a 40 something year old guy. Instead, his old WHA team the Winnipeg Jets took him as WPG integrated into the NHL.

Either way, Bobby Hull did not last long with the newly NHL-integrated Winnipeg Jets in 1979-80 as he had 10 points in 18 games, and so he was dumped to another newly NHL-integrated team in the Hartford Whalers where he would team up with another fellow aging big name star Gordie Howe. Bobby Hull could've maintained his elite years, but instead, he couldn't even outperform a 51-52 year old Howe despite being a decade younger than him, and despite Howe not being what he used to be.

Bobby Hull finished his NHL career as a member of the Whalers, when he could've fittingly retired as a member of the Chicago Blackhawks in 1979-80, which would've marked his first season with the team since 1971-72.

Why did Chicago even reclaim him with the understanding that he would never play a single game with the team in 1979-80?

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[Theokritos]

Sure, Bobby Hull was a perennial All-Star caliber player in Chi-Town, but he only cracked the 100+ point mark once with them. It wasn't until he moved to the WHA and the Winnipeg Jets that Bobby Hull had more seasons where he had 100+ points. (...) It's debatable as to whether Bobby Hull had his best years and made the most impact. Some say his best years were with the Chicago Blackhawks where he played for the longest time at 15 seasons where he was a perennial All-Star, while others say his best years were with the Winnipeg Jets where he remained an All-Star type of player but more importantly, his best seasons in terms of individual statistics and numbers.

If Sidney Crosby goes to the KHL in the year 2020 and puts up several 120 points seasons there, would you argue those would be the best years of his career?

 

[bobholly39]

If Sidney Crosby goes to the KHL in the year 2020 and puts up several 120 points seasons there, would you argue those would be the best years of his career?

I don't have a ton of input on Bobby Hull but Crosby - hard to say? It's really hard to compare different leagues. It actually might be his best years in that scenario.

 

[Eisen]

If Sidney Crosby goes to the KHL in the year 2020 and puts up several 120 points seasons there, would you argue those would be the best years of his career?

Considering they only play 60 games, I'd rank it up there.

 

[Michael Whiteacre]

I don't have a ton of input on Bobby Hull but Crosby - hard to say? It's really hard to compare different leagues. It actually might be his best years in that scenario.

Considering they only play 60 games, I'd rank it up there.

I was referring to Bobby Hull's multiple 100+ point seasons for Winnipeg vs his sole 100+ point season with Chicago as the measuring stick, as the individual success vs team success ratio for Bobby Hull is about even.

Ultimately, the main point of this thread was to ask why the Chicago Blackhawks appeared to have taken Bobby Hull back in 1979 only for them to deal him to the newly NHL-integrated Winnipeg Jets just a few days later.

It would've been a fitting way for Bobby Hull to cap his career if he finished up his NHL career with his original team (the Blackhawks) rather than end it on a low note playing for another former WHA team Hartford Whalers, despite having the special honor of playing alongside a 51-year old Gordie Howe, who maintained his level of play longer than Bobby Hull despite Bobby being a decade younger than Howe. Bill Wertz cited Bobby Hull's star power as the main reason to lessen the declining crowd attendance for the Black Hawks' fanbase.

 

[Doctor No]

As contentious as the relationship between the Black Hawks, Hull, and the WHA was, why *wouldn't* they reclaim him (even if merely for spite)?

 

[Canadiens1958]

Or

As contentious as the relationship between the Black Hawks, Hull, and the WHA was, why *wouldn't* they reclaim him (even if merely for spite)?

Or who else could they reclaim?

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hullbo01.html

Winnipeg kept younger talent then re-couped Hull which allowed Chicago to keep younger talent. Win-win.

 

[Killion]

Why did Chicago even reclaim him with the understanding that he would never play a single game with the team in 1979-80?

Ah. That was actually automatic, institutionalized, part of the WHA/NHL Amalgamation & Franchise agreement's which were beyond one sided, punitive, draconian. Hull's rights automatically reverting back to Chicago in June 79, Chicago having zero interest in bringing back Hull (see various posts above, a lot of ill will, long standing enmities between the two parties) left him exposed, didnt bother protecting him in the Expansion Draft and he was then immediately reclaimed by.... John Ferguson & the Winnipeg Jets.

Hull however really had no interest in returning to play out his career in Winnipeg, off the record unofficial talks subsequent to Chicago losing him back to Winnipeg taking place between Hull & his agent, Bob Pulford & Bill Wirtz who in leaving him unprotected had created a firestorm in the Windy City. One they either knew was bound to happen & didnt care or one that occurred unexpectedly resulting in their playing it cute publicly in suggesting that Hull was in fact welcome to return if a deal could be had despite having left him unprotected & losing him back to Winnipeg.

John Ferguson, aware that Hull wanted to be traded & was dealing with Pulford & Wirtz through the summer was demanding player's (or a player) from Chicago in order to trade his rights back to the Black Hawks. Wirtz & Pulford however refused to agree to do so and as Ferguson was adamant about that it gave them the "out" they needed to once & for all close the door on a return of the Golden Jet to Chicago. Hull was of course furious, however, nothing he could do about it, and as he had the right to decide where he might be traded to if Chicago was out he told Ferguson he'd be interested in going to either Washington or Hartford. A deal then subsequently struck with the Whalers where he'd join some of the remaining 06'rs in Howe, Keon etc.

 

[Killion]

Either way, Bobby Hull did not last long with the newly NHL-integrated Winnipeg Jets in 1979-80 as he had 10 points in 18 games, and so he was dumped to another newly NHL-integrated team in the Hartford Whalers where he would team up with another fellow aging big name star Gordie Howe. Bobby Hull could've maintained his elite years, but instead, he couldn't even outperform a 51-52 year old Howe despite being a decade younger than him, and despite Howe not being what he used to be.

Bobby Hull finished his NHL career as a member of the Whalers, when he could've fittingly retired as a member of the Chicago Blackhawks in 1979-80, which would've marked his first season with the team since 1971-72.

Now for this bit...... Technically, Hull finished his career with the Rangers in an aborted come-back attempt but sure, "officially" his last meaningful games & season was as a Whaler, only playing in Exhibition with the Rangers. Secondly, at that time 79/80, the $%#@ was really hitting the fan with details of his marriage, stories of abuse etc all over the front pages & sports sections, talk radio etc. Combined with his frustrations in dealing with Wirtz, Pulford & Ferguson would have I'm sure taken a lot of luster off the sheen. Enthusiasm he might have had in returning to play in the NHL.

In other words, head & heart messed up but good and as hockey is 95 mental & at his advanced age... not a really good situation, recipe for success. His attempted comeback with the Rangers who had signed his former WHA linemates with whom he enjoyed so much success & who provided the wind that filled his sails & re-energized a career that otherwise had he stayed in the NHL was very likely winding down as it was.... well, that didnt workout either.

Important to understand, factor in the amount of hockey he'd played since entering the NHL with Chicago. Were talking one Hell of a lot of ice-time, much much longer shifts & Hull double shifting, used to beyond burnout by the Black Hawks. Stop Hull & you had a very good chance of beating Chicago. They over-used a number of players, Glenn Hall included. Hull inevitably facing the oppositions best checking forwards & that during an era when there were some incredible, simply superb defensive specialists so for him a real battle almost every shift. Particularly against Montreal & Toronto. Absolutely a Target.

Even with his legendary stamina & speed that took quite a toll. Unlike Howe who really paced himself, Hull like a lot of Speedsters (Lafluer, Bure' etc) given the grind, wear & tear, aging, tank just starts to run lower & lower earlier in every game played. The Short Shift game as well had taken hold by 1980, entirely different dynamic on the ice. There were dozens upon dozens of older guys who will still serviceable enough simply could make that adjustment. You needed youth, speed. Game of sprinting. Totally different mind-set really & Hull's mind already overcrowded with the disappointment of not being able to return to Chicago to finish out his career, with his marriage, life falling apart. Any comparison to the Storybook Finish of Gordie Howe way off the mark. Those two guys couldnt be any more different on & off the ice.

 

[OilTastic]

I was referring to Bobby Hull's multiple 100+ point seasons for Winnipeg vs his sole 100+ point season with Chicago as the measuring stick, as the individual success vs team success ratio for Bobby Hull is about even.

Ultimately, the main point of this thread was to ask why the Chicago Blackhawks appeared to have taken Bobby Hull back in 1979 only for them to deal him to the newly NHL-integrated Winnipeg Jets just a few days later.

It would've been a fitting way for Bobby Hull to cap his career if he finished up his NHL career with his original team (the Blackhawks) rather than end it on a low note playing for another former WHA team Hartford Whalers, despite having the special honor of playing alongside a 51-year old Gordie Howe, who maintained his level of play longer than Bobby Hull despite Bobby being a decade younger than Howe. Bill Wertz cited Bobby Hull's star power as the main reason to lessen the declining crowd attendance for the Black Hawks' fanbase.

Bobby Hull actually won 3 scoring championships in the 60's when you didn't need 100 points to win it, and to my knowledge they played I believe between 70 and 78 games a season in the 60's? it's almost comparable to now when around 100 points or less can win you the Art Ross.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Bobby Hull actually won 3 scoring championships in the 60's when you didn't need 100 points to win it, and to my knowledge they played I believe between 70 and 78 games a season in the 60's? it's almost comparable to now when around 100 points or less can win you the Art Ross.

1959/60 - 1966/67
70 games

1967/68
74 games

1968/69 - 1969/70
76 games

1970/71 - 1973/74
78 games

1974/75 - 1991/92
80 games

 

[reckoning]

I believe Terry Ruskowski was the player Winnipeg wanted from Chicago, which prompted Ferguson to claim Hull as leverage for a possible trade. I don't know if Chicago left Hull unprotected because they didn't want him, or if they thought he wouldn't get claimed due to his age and salary.

As Killion said, Hull had no interest in playing for Winnipeg anymore. Hedberg and Nilsson were gone, Bobby Kromm and his offence-oriented system were gone. There was the infamous incident in the 79-80 season when Tom McVie scratched Hull from the lineup for the big "Tuxedo Night" game against Montreal because he had shown up late for the pre-game meeting. Hull claimed it was a honest mistake because the gametime was earlier than usual, but one could wonder if he did it on purpose because he wanted out.

 

[FerrisRox]

It's debatable as to whether Bobby Hull had his best years and made the most impact. Some say his best years were with the Chicago Blackhawks where he played for the longest time at 15 seasons where he was a perennial All-Star, while others say his best years were with the Winnipeg Jets where he remained an All-Star type of player but more importantly, his best seasons in terms of individual statistics and numbers.

I have never heard a single person say that Bobby Hull's best years were with Winnipeg.

 

[Killion]

I believe Terry Ruskowski was the player Winnipeg wanted from Chicago, which prompted Ferguson to claim Hull as leverage for a possible trade. I don't know if Chicago left Hull unprotected because they didn't want him, or if they thought he wouldn't get claimed due to his age and salary.

Very interesting as I wasnt aware of what player or player's Winnipeg wanted from Chicago in exchange for Hull. Ruskowski (Drafted by Chicago in 74, his rights going back to the Black Hawks in 79) and Rich Preston, both former Jets & Aero's as well as linemates & best friends would have absolutely made sense. Preston however was a Free Agent, he wasnt Drafted by an NHL Club but as Ruskowski was & Chicago also having Magnusson & others who were friends of Prestons the Black Hawks a natural choice & willing to sign him no problem. Formed an excellent line with Grant Mulvey. The RPM Line..... I did some further digging, and the link below throws an interesting wrinkle into this story, the HHOF profile on "Roscow" suggesting an alternate theory that frankly doesnt make any sense. I'll let you read it, decide, tell me what you think of the NHL's HHOF version....

5th paragraph down, last two sentences: www.hhof.com/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=14202

 

[Michael Whiteacre]

I have never heard a single person say that Bobby Hull's best years were with Winnipeg.

Bobby Hull had more 100+ point seasons with Winnipeg than Chicago (only one 100+ point season with Chi-Town), so it's only his best years in terms of individual stats and high numbers, whereas Chicago was the place where he had his best team oriented success, so it evens out the team success vs. individual numbers ratio for Bobby "The Golden Jet" Hull.

The multiple 100+ point seasons plus better individual numbers are when you could have a case to be made for Bobby Hull's best years in Winnipeg for those stats alone, whereas the better overall team success around him is obviously spent with Chicago and spent the longest time there.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Avco Cup

Bobby Hull had more 100+ point seasons with Winnipeg than Chicago (only one 100+ point season with Chi-Town), so it's only his best years in terms of individual stats and high numbers, whereas Chicago was the place where he had his best team oriented success, so it evens out the team success vs. individual numbers ratio for Bobby "The Golden Jet" Hull.

The multiple 100+ point seasons plus better individual numbers are when you could have a case to be made for Bobby Hull's best years in Winnipeg for those stats alone, whereas the better overall team success around him is obviously spent with Chicago and spent the longest time there.

Played on 3 Avco Cup Championship teams and was on two other Avco Cup finalists as well in the 7 seasons that the WHA existed. By your measures seems Hull had better team success in Winnipeg.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Does anybody actually think WHA benchmarks and Avco Cups are more impressive than Bobby Hull's NHL prime? No playing devil's advocate, shrugging and saying "well somebody might." A show of hands, now.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Does anybody actually think WHA benchmarks and Avco Cups are more impressive than Bobby Hull's NHL prime? No playing devil's advocate, shrugging and saying "well somebody might." A show of hands, now.

Few would equate goals and assists in the WHA to goals and assists in the NHL at that time. No one with any grasp of the Expansion and Start up of the WHA would equate either to points in the mid sixties, prior to Expansion.

Hull's post expansion 107 point season with Chicago was not really his best in any case. Phil Esposito had 126 that year, and 41 year old Gordie Howe had 103. This, 68-69, was the first time anyone had over 100 points.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Point

Does anybody actually think WHA benchmarks and Avco Cups are more impressive than Bobby Hull's NHL prime? No playing devil's advocate, shrugging and saying "well somebody might." A show of hands, now.

Point is that Bobby Hull contributed to a much better team situation in the WHA even though his individual numbers were not as impressive. Winning the Art Ross three times in the NHL ahead of Jean Beliveau, Gordie Howe, Stan Mikita certainly trumps never leading the WHA in scoring:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hullbo01.html

Similarities with Johnny Bower who contributed to improving team situations in the AHL and NHL yet whose NHL individual by-product numbers are much more impressive.

 

[ICM1970]

I took a read through Gare Joyce's book on Bobby Hull to refresh my memory on his very brief time as a New York Ranger. According to reports, he was actually one of the fittest athletes the Rangers had at training camp in 1981 and it really looked like that Bobby could make that good, solid contribution to the team, particularly along with Anders Hedberg and Ulf Nilsson. Unfortunately, both of Bobby's former linemates from the WHA Winnipeg days were soon sidelined with injuries and Bobby's time ended of course soon after the Sweden tour.

The interesting thing to remember is that even though it was not made public, but everyone around knew about was that newly appointed coach Herb Brooks did not want a strong personality like Bobby's in the dressing room. Brooks wanted to have the squad under his personality alone, like how he did things with the U.S. Olympic team in 1980. It is one of those fascinating, interesting stories of "What if" if Bobby were allowed to stay and play those maybe 1 or even 2 seasons as a Ranger that he possibly could have.

 

[OilTastic]

I have never heard a single person say that Bobby Hull's best years were with Winnipeg.

And me being a slightly older guy I can say that even though Hull, Howe and the gang tore up the WHA, the league was not as high a caliber league as the NHL was.

 

[DowntownBooster]

I took a read through Gare Joyce's book on Bobby Hull to refresh my memory on his very brief time as a New York Ranger. According to reports, he was actually one of the fittest athletes the Rangers had at training camp in 1981 and it really looked like that Bobby could make that good, solid contribution to the team, particularly along with Anders Hedberg and Ulf Nilsson. Unfortunately, both of Bobby's former linemates from the WHA Winnipeg days were soon sidelined with injuries and Bobby's time ended of course soon after the Sweden tour.

The interesting thing to remember is that even though it was not made public, but everyone around knew about was that newly appointed coach Herb Brooks did not want a strong personality like Bobby's in the dressing room. Brooks wanted to have the squad under his personality alone, like how he did things with the U.S. Olympic team in 1980. It is one of those fascinating, interesting stories of "What if" if Bobby were allowed to stay and play those maybe 1 or even 2 seasons as a Ranger that he possibly could have.

Similar details are in Geoff Kirbyson's book 'The Hot Line'. Hull performed extremely well with the Rangers during camp in 1981. Unfortunately he never had the opportunity to play with either Hedberg or Nilsson as they were both injured at the time. Hull had been impressed with the Rangers system as it was similar to that of the WHA Jets that he had been used to. It's really too bad that Brooks wasn't keen on keeping Hull in the lineup into the regular season to see what he could do when Hedberg came back from injury and then Nilsson later on.

 

[Theokritos]

I don't have a ton of input on Bobby Hull but Crosby - hard to say? It's really hard to compare different leagues. It actually might be his best years in that scenario.

Considering they only play 60 games, I'd rank it up there.

Okay, the KHL comparison doesn't work. What I was getting at was this:

Does anybody actually think WHA benchmarks and Avco Cups are more impressive than Bobby Hull's NHL prime?

Few would equate goals and assists in the WHA to goals and assists in the NHL at that time. No one with any grasp of the Expansion and Start up of the WHA would equate either to points in the mid sixties, prior to Expansion.

Winning the Art Ross three times in the NHL ahead of Jean Beliveau, Gordie Howe, Stan Mikita certainly trumps never leading the WHA in scoring

 

[FerrisRox]

Bobby Hull had more 100+ point seasons with Winnipeg than Chicago (only one 100+ point season with Chi-Town), so it's only his best years in terms of individual stats and high numbers, whereas Chicago was the place where he had his best team oriented success, so it evens out the team success vs. individual numbers ratio for Bobby "The Golden Jet" Hull.

The multiple 100+ point seasons plus better individual numbers are when you could have a case to be made for Bobby Hull's best years in Winnipeg for those stats alone, whereas the better overall team success around him is obviously spent with Chicago and spent the longest time there.

You realize his 100 point seasons with the Jets were in the WHA, right? Hugely different than putting up 100 point seasons in the 12-team NHL.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Okay, the KHL comparison doesn't work. What I was getting at was this:

I'm not sure if these questions can be answered satisfactorily. There are those that view the WHA in the same vein as the AHL in comparison to the NHL and those that view them almost equally and others somewhere in between. I think the stats of players in both the WHA and NHL would be hard to compare to those of the original 6 era. I think it's safe to say that the quality of play in the WHA grew closer to that of the NHL over each successive season. Probably one of the better ways to make a comparison is to look at player stats for those that played the final years of the WHA and moved onto the NHL following the merger in 1979. Scoring was thought to be easier in the WHA and yet in the final season Wayne Gretzky had 110 points in 80 games (46 goals) and in his first NHL season had 137 points in 79 games (51 goals). I won't try to convince anyone the leagues were equal but I do think the WHA was better than most people give it credit for.