Why did Cam Neely make it and Lindros not?

Senor Catface

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Jul 25, 2006
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Who can forget that fantastic streak for Neely between 1990-1994. It's too bad he basically only played 10 games for two of those years, but he still got 176 goals in 216 games. 32 goals in 44 playoff games.

That by itself is fantastic, hall or not.
 
Nov 26, 2010
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Context does matter or do you think that he is even in the top 20 all time for goal scoring?



Lindros was the best player in the world for at least one season, in the mix for maybe 2 or 3.

How many other players fit that bill? 50 maybe?

He was a force in his 1st 7 seasons in the NHL but after that injuries caught up to him.

I can see why you might not have Neely in your hall but if Lindros doesn't make your Hall how many guys are in it maybe 100?

Lindros would have been one of the all time greats if it weren't for all of the injuries. Nobody his size could skate shoot and play tough the way he did. He was a fantastic all around player
 

mobilus

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Jan 6, 2009
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I think some people are misinterpreting the "character" element of qualifications for the Hall. That's to keep Pete Rose-esque type behavior out, it's not about whether a player is likable or refused to put on his draft jersey. There's a lot of general prîcks in the NHL, from owners to refs to managers, coaches and players. Big (and fragile) egos abound in all pro sports.

Orr wasn't penalized from the Hall for having a shortened career. He won more hardware than Lindros, but Eric was as much a redefining icon. Lindros had a body larger than Probert, Bossy's shot or better, close to Lemieux's hands, and Messier's disposition. Never had so much been seen in one basket before (or since).

He made the Canada Cup team in '91 at 18 years old, before ever having played a game in the NHL. Think about that... the toughest hockey tournament in the world at the time (pre-pro-Olympics) and he made the Canadian team while still eligible for Junior. He put up five points and snapped two collarbones in that tournament. Outside of maybe Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux, there was never was a guy more NHL qualified as an 18 year old.

Orr came into the league almost sheltered. There was no cable TV then, no satellite TV, no sports highlights after the news outside that of your local club. Gretzky was coached by his father since he was a boy on how to conduct himself. Lemieux came in with almost no English, isolated by language. Lindros came in having been sheltered by his parents. He had to grow up the hard way quickly, with lights in his eyes, mics in his face and 24 hour sports coverage in radio and TV. For any flaws people see in him, if another player like Lindros showed up in the draft, the same fury to acquire his rights would happen all over again. He's definitely Hall worthy.
 
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SomE*

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Didn't Lindros donate his the money he made in his final seasons to charity? What a bad man.
 

trenton1

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It's only been 3 or 4 years since retirement. Neely waited 9 years after retirement. Lindros to the HOF sometime in the future is not out of the question at all.
 

arrbez

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Jun 2, 2004
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HHOF entry is not all about stats people.

This is taken directly from the HHOF website ...

"Playing ability, sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the team or teams and to the game of hockey in general"

As far as I'm concerned, the last 18 words of that sentence is the very reason why Lindros should never be in the Hall. He only fits the first attribute that is considered for entry to the Hall.

That's the kind of reasoning that sees a hall full of Dick Duff and Clark Gillies. The Hall of Fame should be for the players people will still be talking about 20 years from now. That's Eric Lindros, Pavel Bure, and yes, Cam Neely. These guys were defining players of their generation, much more so than a lot of guys already in the Hall.
 

Blades of Glory

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That's the kind of reasoning that sees a hall full of Dick Duff and Clark Gillies. The Hall of Fame should be for the players people will still be talking about 20 years from now. That's Eric Lindros, Pavel Bure, and yes, Cam Neely. These guys were defining players of their generation, much more so than a lot of guys already in the Hall.

The people who say Lindros doesn't deserve induction into the Hall because of his "character" are probably those who forget that the widely-adored Brendan Shanahan wasn't exactly the epitome of class and character before he joined the Red Wings. You can't keep a dominant player out of the Hall based on something as asinine as "character".
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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I honestly think some people have a hard time separating Lindros the hype from Lindros the player. The lockout-shortened season is really the only year where Lindros could have had a legitimate claim to being the best player in the league and again, that wasn't an undisputed claim either with Jagr tearing it up (and unlike Lindros's, Jagr's peak wasn't the wink of an eye).

When I hear the names Lemieux or Orr even mentioned, it's a joke. Lemieux spent most of the 90s at considerably less than 100% fitness and still was a better player than Lindros ever was. And I don't even have to talk about Orr. Even if Lindros could keep his head up, it's extremely unlikely he would have matched that sort of pedigree. People cite the Stevens or even the Kasparaitis hits but really it's not like he was at an all-time best level before those, he was one of the league's best players. Key word "one of". Teemu Selanne and Paul Kariya could say that too about those years.

I do believe Lindros deserves the Hall in the end but people should leave the hype at the door nevertheless.
 

Eisen

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I heard he was the best player in the NHL for a stretch of 3 to 4 years. Is that not enough for him to get in his first year, a year when Dino got in. I'd imagine, and I hope it doesn't happen. If Crosby isn't the same after this concussion and retires at the age of 33, he'll be in the first shot. Although, I did not know Cam Neely took 5 years. Lol I guess that answers some questions

They make him wait a bit purely because of personality issues. I think he will get in eventually.
 

arrbez

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I honestly think some people have a hard time separating Lindros the hype from Lindros the player. The lockout-shortened season is really the only year where Lindros could have had a legitimate claim to being the best player in the league and again, that wasn't an undisputed claim either with Jagr tearing it up (and unlike Lindros's, Jagr's peak wasn't the wink of an eye).

Lindros absolutely was playing at an all-time great level, he just wasn`t healthy enough for his single-season totals to reflect it. He was scoring at a 125 point pace for four or 5 years there, on top of being the most dominant physical presence the league has probably ever seen at the centre position. He may have been only scoring 80 or 90 points, but he was doing it in 55 or 65 games.

Besides, if the hall was limited to guys who were the undisputed best players in the world for more than one season, it would be pretty small. At his best, I`d confidently say that Eric Lindros was better than the majority of players in the hall of fame. And for me, he did it for long enough that it was historically significant.

Obviously Lemieux was on another level from everyone, and it`s hard to compare Hasek to skaters. But on a per-game basis, Lindros was absolutely in the conversation for a span of 5 or so years.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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Lindros absolutely was playing at an all-time great level, he just wasn`t healthy enough for his single-season totals to reflect it. He was scoring at a 125 point pace for four or 5 years there, on top of being the most dominant physical presence the league has probably ever seen at the centre position. He may have been only scoring 80 or 90 points, but he was doing it in 55 or 65 games.

Besides, if the hall was limited to guys who were the undisputed best players in the world for more than one season, it would be pretty small. At his best, I`d confidently say that Eric Lindros was better than the majority of players in the hall of fame. And for me, he did it for long enough that it was historically significant.

Obviously Lemieux was on another level from everyone, and it`s hard to compare Hasek to skaters. But on a per-game basis, Lindros was absolutely in the conversation for a span of 5 or so years.

Lindros is an all-time great if the list is of greats is like 100 long, yes, if you hear some people talk you'd think Lemieux when really it's more like Jean Ratelle.
 

edog37

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I can see why you might not have Neely in your hall but if Lindros doesn't make your Hall how many guys are in it maybe 100?

why is that such a bad thing? The Hall of Fame is supposed to be reserved for only the best of the best. If they had an induction ceremonly only once every couple of years, that would preserve the integrity of the institution itself. The fact that Cam Neely is in the Hall of Fame while having less points than Rick Kehoe should be an indicator that something is seriously flawed with the selection process.
 

JackSlater

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Lindros is an all-time great if the list is of greats is like 100 long, yes, if you hear some people talk you'd think Lemieux when really it's more like Jean Ratelle.

Over a six year span Lindros finished 3, 1, 3, 2, 6, 4 in PPG, all the while being a reliable player defensively. If you remove Lemieux then Lindros' 2nd place finish becomes a 1st and his second 3rd place finish becomes at worst a 2nd, possibly a 1st if Jagr's production would have dropped enough. While that is obviously not Lemieux level, it is clearly well above Ratelle.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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Over a six year span Lindros finished 3, 1, 3, 2, 6, 4 in PPG, all the while being a reliable player defensively. If you remove Lemieux then Lindros' 2nd place finish becomes a 1st and his second 3rd place finish becomes at worst a 2nd, possibly a 1st if Jagr's production would have dropped enough. While that is obviously not Lemieux level, it is clearly well above Ratelle.

I think you underestimate Ratelle who was 3rd in points in the nine seasons between 1967 and 1975 behind only Orr and Esposito and 5th in PPG with Hull and Dionne squeezing in, pretty select company.
 

God Bless Canada

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Neely needed seven attempts to get in the HHOF. Lindros has been eligible once. It's not really a fair comparison.

Neely's only real strike is longevity. When you look at Neely - all that he did, all he could do, all that he meant to the game, and what he did when the games mattered most - it's a pretty incredible resume. It's just that he played 700 games, and basically had an interrupted, eight-year prime in which he missed two-and-a-half seasons. His performance in 1988 wasn't a fluke - he surpassed that performance several times over.

Lindros is a polarizing player. It's not just a popularity thing. Yeah, we don't like Eric because he wouldn't go to Quebec (or a lot of teams for that matter). We were rubbed the wrong way by his cockiness, his arrogance, the beer-spitting incident in his rookie campaign. But the name Eric Lindros doesn't conjure up the fondest memories. If you ask 10 people about Lindros, you have no idea what you might get. Some will rave about him. Others wouldn't want anything to do with him, or the next Lindros.

For five years, he was incredible. Hart Trophy in 1995. Second-team all-star in 1995-96. (When there were half-a-dozen serious contenders for all-star spots). MVP for a Cup finalist in 1997. (Granted, he didn't play well in the final, but he was a force in the first three rounds). He might have been at his best in 1998-99, but suffered a collapsed lung late in the season, missed the playoffs, and had a major falling out with Bobby Clarke. (The seeds of a strained relationship were strained after the 1998 Olympics, but then things really deteriorated after the lung injury).

After 1999, his career went off the rails. Yes, there were concussion issues. He sulked in his last year in Philly. But he became a suitcase. He struggled at times in New York. He struggled in Toronto. He struggled in Dallas. He was a shell of what he used to be. He often looked to be in cruise control, a guy just accepting a paycheck. The aggressiveness, the intensity and the work ethic were gone. There were some good moments in New York, and he won a gold medal in the 02 Olympics in a support role. But the dominant, forceful Big E was gone.

You can't talk about Lindros without talking about how great he was from 1995 to 1999. And you can't talk about Lindros without talking about the guy who often floated and coasted from 1999 to 2007.

I've often criticized the HHOF for the size of its selection committee. I love the make-up of it - former players, coaches, managers; guys who look beyond the numbers. I just wish it was bigger. I wish there were 36 or 40 or 50 of those guys instead of 18, with a requisite of 28 or 32 or 38 votes to get inducted. I think a larger committee would reduce the risk of some of the softer inductions. I'm not as critical of Dick Duff's induction or Dino Ciccarelli's induction as some people, but I wouldn't have voted for them.

At the same time, a small selection committee does punish a guy like Lindros. It might have helped a guy like Clarke Gillies; it punishes Lindros. You'll find people out there, like one of my favourites, the great Ray Scapinello, who think that Lindros should absolutely be a shoo-in for the HHOF. But there's a lot of people out there who'll never vote for him, for the reasons I outlined earlier. And all it will take each year is four of those people. Eric's in for a long wait, probably longer than Neely.
 

jkrx

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Over a six year span Lindros finished 3, 1, 3, 2, 6, 4 in PPG, all the while being a reliable player defensively. If you remove Lemieux then Lindros' 2nd place finish becomes a 1st and his second 3rd place finish becomes at worst a 2nd, possibly a 1st if Jagr's production would have dropped enough. While that is obviously not Lemieux level, it is clearly well above Ratelle.

How is Lindros well above Ratelle, one of NHLs most consistent producers of all time?
 

JackSlater

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How is Lindros well above Ratelle, one of NHLs most consistent producers of all time?

When healthy Lindros was in the debate for best payer in the world for a number of years. Even if you exclude Orr Ratelle never was. Ratelle only had one year at a level that Lindros reached for a sustained period. I wouldn't put Ratell all that high among the most consistent point producers of all time either.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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Lindros' peak floods Ratelle's IMO.

Jean Ratelle's best season he had a point per game of 1.71. The 36th best value and 17th best non-Gretzky/Lemieux one between 1963 and 2002 i.e. the time span encompassing both Ratelle's and Lindros's peaks . Lindros's best season is 81st on that particular list. So really, Ratelle's best season easily trumps Lindros's best season.
 

Sens Rule

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I think you underestimate Ratelle who was 3rd in points in the nine seasons between 1967 and 1975 behind only Orr and Esposito and 5th in PPG with Hull and Dionne squeezing in, pretty select company.

Daniel Alfredsson is 3rd (or 4th) in points for the 00 decade. That is great. Alfredsson and Ratelle are great players. I think it is pretty obvious Lindros was on an entirely different level right from his rookie season until he got the big concussion. Alfie was dominant for the 07 playoffs and in 05-07. Ratelle had that one huge season. Lindros was at that high or probably a higher level for his entire career until he suffered that injury.

My point is who cares if Neely or Lindros or Forsberg or Bure had injury riddled careers. They were GREAT PLAYERS career totals mean little compared to the sheer dominance each had when they were at their best.

I'd induct all 4 of them over Mike Gartner who has ridiculous career stats. They were all better players than he was. And I don't have a problem with Gartner being in the Hall of Fame either.
 

Stephen

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Jean Ratelle's best season he had a point per game of 1.71. The 36th best value and 17th best non-Gretzky/Lemieux one between 1963 and 2002 i.e. the time span encompassing both Ratelle's and Lindros's peaks . Lindros's best season is 81st on that particular list. So really, Ratelle's best season easily trumps Lindros's best season.

That was one season for Ratelle. Compare that to the first five years of Lindros' career where his PPG average was 1.46, 3rd highest or something like that in the history of the game behind Lemieux and Gretzky, or the first seven years of his career, where his PPG average was about the same as Bobby Orr's PPG average at 1.39.
 

Hardyvan123

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why is that such a bad thing? The Hall of Fame is supposed to be reserved for only the best of the best. If they had an induction ceremonly only once every couple of years, that would preserve the integrity of the institution itself. The fact that Cam Neely is in the Hall of Fame while having less points than Rick Kehoe should be an indicator that something is seriously flawed with the selection process.


Well if you are comfortable with a group of around 100 guys so far I would be really interested to see who makes the cut and it would make a great thread as well.


Well we can all agree that Rick Kehoe doesn't belong in the Hall but context really matters.

To use counting stats, as many people seem to do without any context or other measures is the biggest problem when we have these discussions.

Neely doesn't make my Hall but Lindros makes it for a couple of reasons.

Lindros was in the best player in the world discussion for several (maybe 5 years).

Also Lindros get some credit for his play at an international level as well.
 

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