Why Did Butch Goring Win The Conn Smythe In 1981?

[Staniowski]

With idiots like Stan Fischler on their anti-Gretzky crusade c.1983, the best those creaking fossils could hope for was that a rugged old-school Howe-like player, such as Messier, could win the Conn Smythe in 1984. (Not saying Messier didn't deserve it, but the media narrative helped that out.)

It's not true that Messier was helped by any anti-Gretzky feelings re: the Conn Smythe. Most people simply thought that Messier was the better player, and more important, overall, to the Oilers success in those playoffs.

Gretzky played very well, as usual. But Messier took on a legendary status in those playoffs. In the 7-game series with the Flames, Messier scored 11 points, just 2 behind Gretzky. And the thing people remember most from that series is, in Game 7, Messier sending 3 Flames players - Reinhart, MacInnis, Eaves - to the dressing room with injuries after hitting them or colliding with them. Reinhart was the Flames' best player.

In the finals, Messier was all over the ice, hitting everybody. He scored the big goal of the series. Gretzky on the other hand, only scored 4 points in the first 4 games of the series, and 2 of those were on 7th goals (both 7 - 2 wins) in Games 3 and 4. So, he had only 2 meaningful points in the first 4 games, when the series was on the line. I think a lot of people were underwhelmed with his performance, all things considered. Gretzky did score 3 important points in the final game, but probably most of the Conn Smythe voters had their minds mostly made up before that game.

I think Messier deserved it.

With Messier, the big question is, how did he only win 1 Conn Smythe?

 

[Staniowski]

For example: So powerful were the Habs by 1978 that Montreal newspapers not only predicted they'd win again in 1979, but also stated that Bob Gainey should win the Conn Smythe (they said this before the playoffs in 1979 even started). After Montreal won the Cup, who got the Conn Smythe? Bob Gainey.

Who, specifically, said that Gainey should win the Conn Smythe before the playoffs even started?

There is no question that Gainey was highly regarded, but it was deserved. At that time, Lafleur, Dryden, and Robinson were the 3 big "stars" of the team (and 3 of the very biggest stars in the NHL), but that was a deep team, and guys like Lemaire, Gainey, and Savard were just as important to the team's success, not to mention the grinder-types like Risebrough, Tremblay, Lambert, etc.

A great team, but Gainey deserved the Conn Smythe, he had 16 points in 16 games (just behind Lemaire and Lafleur), and played great.

 

[Iapyi]

I'm different then most in that I like to actually watch the games and make decisions based on more than statistics. I remember at the time believing that Goring deserved the Smythe and being surprised when he was actually awarded it.

I am also a firm believer that Dave Bolland should have won it for the Blackhawks one year.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I'm different then most in that I like to actually watch the games and make decisions based on more than statistics. I remember at the time believing that Goring deserved the Smythe and being surprised when he was actually awarded it.

I am also a firm believer that Dave Bolland should have won it for the Blackhawks one year.

I remember watching the games. There is an example of where stats do not to justice to the player

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I think the closest comparable here is Williams. With Nieuwendyk and Lemieux it's pretty easy to make statistical arguments about their playoff goals and points. With Goring and Williams, it's more about the timing of those goals, the "clutch" factor that drives some people crazy in retrospect but makes perfect sense when you're watching in real time.

actually, as staniowski above reminds me, in terms of on ice play (and not missing piece stuff or playoff experience) messier might be the best comparable here.

 

[Iapyi]

It's not true that Messier was helped by any anti-Gretzky feelings re: the Conn Smythe. Most people simply thought that Messier was the better player, and more important, overall, to the Oilers success in those playoffs.

Gretzky played very well, as usual. But Messier took on a legendary status in those playoffs. In the 7-game series with the Flames, Messier scored 11 points, just 2 behind Gretzky. And the thing people remember most from that series is, in Game 7, Messier sending 3 Flames players - Reinhart, MacInnis, Eaves - to the dressing room with injuries after hitting them or colliding with them. Reinhart was the Flames' best player.

In the finals, Messier was all over the ice, hitting everybody. He scored the big goal of the series. Gretzky on the other hand, only scored 4 points in the first 4 games of the series, and 2 of those were on 7th goals (both 7 - 2 wins) in Games 3 and 4. So, he had only 2 meaningful points in the first 4 games, when the series was on the line. I think a lot of people were underwhelmed with his performance, all things considered. Gretzky did score 3 important points in the final game, but probably most of the Conn Smythe voters had their minds mostly made up before that game.

I think Messier deserved it.

With Messier, the big question is, how did he only win 1 Conn Smythe?

I thought Messier deserved it that year as well. Was surprised when they awarded it to him.

 

[The Panther]

It's not true that Messier was helped by any anti-Gretzky feelings re: the Conn Smythe. Most people simply thought that Messier was the better player, and more important, overall, to the Oilers success in those playoffs.

Gretzky played very well, as usual. But Messier took on a legendary status in those playoffs. In the 7-game series with the Flames, Messier scored 11 points, just 2 behind Gretzky. And the thing people remember most from that series is, in Game 7, Messier sending 3 Flames players - Reinhart, MacInnis, Eaves - to the dressing room with injuries after hitting them or colliding with them. Reinhart was the Flames' best player.

In the finals, Messier was all over the ice, hitting everybody. He scored the big goal of the series. Gretzky on the other hand, only scored 4 points in the first 4 games of the series, and 2 of those were on 7th goals (both 7 - 2 wins) in Games 3 and 4. So, he had only 2 meaningful points in the first 4 games, when the series was on the line. I think a lot of people were underwhelmed with his performance, all things considered. Gretzky did score 3 important points in the final game, but probably most of the Conn Smythe voters had their minds mostly made up before that game.

I think Messier deserved it.

With Messier, the big question is, how did he only win 1 Conn Smythe?

I didn't say Messier didn't deserve it. I said he did deserve it.

I'm simply drawing a parallel with Goring.

 

[Staniowski]

Here's one of those Messier hits in the '84 finals....on Trottier.

 

[Neutrinos]

Yeah, maybe. It is weird with Potvin, he is arguably the best playoff performer to never win the Conn Smythe yet he'd win a poll when it comes down to who was the "glue" on that dynasty. I don't know if it is a travesty that he never won one or if it just shows you how great those Islanders teams were. Either way, it goes against the norm. The best player in the Oilers dynasty was Gretzky and he won two. Lafleur for the Habs, he wins one and like Gretzky could have won 4. Orr wins both for the Bruins. Lemieux for the Pens. Malkin and Crosby have won three combined. Yzerman won his. No doubt Howe or Richard have their name on that trophy at least once. All of Keith, Toews and Kane won. Yet Potvin didn't, go figure. The closest argument can be Fedorov for having not won one despite being in the mix every year. Although the argument probably still favours Yzerman for being the most important.

Forsberg is another guy you would think has one, but doesn't

 

[Big Phil]

Messier's Smythe in 1984 is earned. It wouldn't make me bat an eyelash if Gretzky had won it either, but maybe this was one of those times when someone played as good as Gretzky for a change for a short time. I think that goal Messier scored in Game 3 sort of put him over the top.

It is strange that a guy who scored 35 points one spring didn't win, but it still doesn't mean Messier wasn't important. In a way it is like in 2013. If the Bruins win I am giving that to Bergeron, not Krejci, despite the point difference.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Messier in 1984 also benefited from the narrative that his separated shoulder in 1983 just before the Islanders series (14 goals in 10 games before the injury) was a contributing factor to the loss, so when the Oilers drew the Islanders in 1984 and he came up big, it was something of an acknowledgment of what he did that year and what the team was missing the previous year.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Part of Goring winning it in 81 was that he didn't win it in 80: the "this is the guy who put the team over the top" narrative began pretty much the moment he arrived in Long Island at the 80 trade deadline. The way the minds of the journalists voting on it worked, it was probably this feeling that they had to give it to him as sort of an equalizer for not getting it in 80, especially after the hat trick. It was basically a logical conclusion of the narrative. Goring was always a media darling; Potvin, not so much.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Part of Goring winning it in 81 was that he didn't win it in 80: the "this is the guy who put the team over the top" narrative began pretty much the moment he arrived in Long Island at the 80 trade deadline. The way the minds of the journalists voting on it worked, it was probably this feeling that they had to give it to him as sort of an equalizer for not getting it in 80, especially after the hat trick. It was basically a logical conclusion of the narrative. Goring was always a media darling; Potvin, not so much.

really? i was just being born so i don’t know anything about this.

is it because manhattanites hated him for maiming nilsson or in general was potvin not liked for other reasons? surprises me given he was the consensus best dman in the league and, in retrospect anyway, considered such a heart and soul captain.

 

[boredmale]

really? i was just being born so i don’t know anything about this.

is it because manhattanites hated him for maiming nilsson or in general was potvin not liked for other reasons? surprises me given he was the consensus best dman in the league and, in retrospect anyway, considered such a heart and soul captain.

I think it's more a case Potvin was rather cocky/arrogant, where as Goring is more fun loving and personable. Although that doesn't explain Billy Smith winning it. lol

 

[Crosbyfan]

I remember watching Goring in that Cup run...you got the sense that nothing bad could happen for the Islanders when he was on the ice.
I was not at all surprised he got the Smythe over Potvin, who was probably their best and most important player over the extent of their dynasty.