Why did Barry Smith never land a head coaching gig in the NHL?

[19 for president]

1. The guy was one of the most successful assistants of the 90s.

2.He learned from the greatest to ever coach.

3. Dave Lewis got multiple shots despite proving to be a pretty poor HC.

It always surprised me that he never ended up as an NHL head coach. I mean look at how far Babs assistants got.

Anyone have any insight?

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[Henkka]

I've read it from many sources that he just didn't want a Head Coach role in NHL. Scotty suggested him to be his successor at 2002, but no.

It very weird, because he has had those Head Coach duties at Europe and NCAA.

 

[MBH]

Lacked people skills.

 

[Retire91]

That is a good question, seems like he would have had a solid skill set. I think teams would have been interested in someone that worked in Bowman's vicinity let alone an assistance coach. I don't know the details but I have to assume yes he did not want the job. Because if he did want the job I think there would have been numerous teams inquiring.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Lacked people skills.

Mike Babcock says hi.

 

[ShelbyZ]

IIRC, Bowman tabbed Smith as his replacement for when he decided to finally hang them up, but the front office went with Lewis because of seniority.

Perhaps the failed NHL HC tenures of other Bowman assistants unfairly affected his reputation? Off the top of my head there was Lewis in Detroit and Boston, and then Pierre McGuire who was an absolute train wreck that didn't even make it a full season as Whalers HC in 93-94.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Mike Babcock says hi.

And Bowman, and Tortorella, and Sutter...

To me people skills seems like something the assistants need more than head coach because they more often play good cop with the players to the coach's bad cop.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I just read Stu Grimson's book, and in it he said that if you did something in a game that Bowman didn't like, he would have Barry Smith or Dave Lewis stand behind you and then loudly tell them something like "Gee Barry, you better tell Stu not to do that again. Could you tell him I really don't think that was a good idea?"/etc.

 

[Retire91]

I just read Stu Grimson's book, and in it he said that if you did something in a game that Bowman didn't like, he would have Barry Smith or Dave Lewis stand behind you and then loudly tell them something like "Gee Barry, you better tell Stu not to do that again. Could you tell him I really don't think that was a good idea?"/etc.

Holy shame on me I forgot Grimson played for us.

I was so shocked by how poorly Lewis worked out. Maybe being Bowman's assistant really did taint opportunities.

 

[Spitfire11]

If Dave Lewis got a HC job over him he wasn’t HC material.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I kind of remember hearing that under Bowman, Lewis was the "good cop" to Smith's "bad cop".

Lewis was the nice guy that had been around for a long time, played for the organization and with guys like Yzerman, Kocur and Murphy and was more of a buddy than a disciplinarian/task master, while Smith was more of a Keenan-lite right hand man to Bowman that players equally despised.

That was why Bowman thought Smith would make the better HC than Lewis, and probably why the high paid superstar team allegedly turned into more of a Wayne Fontes country club atmosphere under his watch, which led guys like Yzerman and Shanahan to want out when the more Bowman like Babcock was brought in.

Bowman was a bit odd when it came to picking assistant coaches. Pierre McGuire was an assistant coach at Bowman's daughters school that he liked talking to, so I hired him as a Penguins assistant, then you've got Krushelnyski, Kocur and asking Grimson to stand on the bench in a suit when he was a healthy scratch during the 96 playoffs. That said, IIRC, Smith was a Bob Johnson assistant that Bowman inherited when he took over for the Pens.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I kind of remember hearing that under Bowman, Lewis was the "good cop" to Smith's "bad cop".

Lewis was the nice guy that had been around for a long time, played for the organization and with guys like Yzerman, Kocur and Murphy and was more of a buddy than a disciplinarian/task master, while Smith was more of a Keenan-lite right hand man to Bowman that players equally despised.

That was why Bowman thought Smith would make the better HC than Lewis, and probably why the high paid superstar team allegedly turned into more of a Wayne Fontes country club atmosphere under his watch, which led guys like Yzerman and Shanahan to want out when the more Bowman like Babcock was brought in.

Bowman was a bit odd when it came to picking assistant coaches. Pierre McGuire was an assistant coach at Bowman's daughters school that he liked talking to, so I hired him as a Penguins assistant, then you've got Krushelnyski, Kocur and asking Grimson to stand on the bench in a suit when he was a healthy scratch during the 96 playoffs. That said, IIRC, Smith was a Bob Johnson assistant that Bowman inherited when he took over for the Pens.

Yzerman was 41 years old playing on one knee and put up the lowest point totals of his career in 2006. He retired because he simply couldn't keep up anymore, especially in the post-lockout NHL.

If he were 10 years younger and putting up 90+ points still I highly doubt he would've had any issues with it not being a country club atmosphere given he played 9 years under Bowman. Plus he had to sense the team wasn't that far away from another Cup run.

 

[MBH]

I kind of remember hearing that under Bowman, Lewis was the "good cop" to Smith's "bad cop".

Lewis was the nice guy that had been around for a long time, played for the organization and with guys like Yzerman, Kocur and Murphy and was more of a buddy than a disciplinarian/task master, while Smith was more of a Keenan-lite right hand man to Bowman that players equally despised.

That was why Bowman thought Smith would make the better HC than Lewis, and probably why the high paid superstar team allegedly turned into more of a Wayne Fontes country club atmosphere under his watch, which led guys like Yzerman and Shanahan to want out when the more Bowman like Babcock was brought in.

Bowman was a bit odd when it came to picking assistant coaches. Pierre McGuire was an assistant coach at Bowman's daughters school that he liked talking to, so I hired him as a Penguins assistant, then you've got Krushelnyski, Kocur and asking Grimson to stand on the bench in a suit when he was a healthy scratch during the 96 playoffs. That said, IIRC, Smith was a Bob Johnson assistant that Bowman inherited when he took over for the Pens.

Smith was more of a tactician.
He was a Bowman guy.
Lewis was a Holland/Jimmy D guy.

When Bowman retired, he lobbied for Smith. But Holland and Jimmy D wanted their own man in the job.
Lewis had good relationships with the team, but he couldn't poke and prod them. Nor did he have any real tactics or strategy expertise.

 

[MBH]

I just read Stu Grimson's book, and in it he said that if you did something in a game that Bowman didn't like, he would have Barry Smith or Dave Lewis stand behind you and then loudly tell them something like "Gee Barry, you better tell Stu not to do that again. Could you tell him I really don't think that was a good idea?"/etc.

Worth a read?

 

[Henkka]

which led guys like Yzerman and Shanahan to want out when the more Bowman like Babcock was brought in.

Love this Babcock-hate. Everything like climate change is now his fault.

 

[Henkka]

Smith was more of a tactician.
He was a Bowman guy.
Lewis was a Holland/Jimmy D guy.

When Bowman retired, he lobbied for Smith. But Holland and Jimmy D wanted their own man in the job.
Lewis had good relationships with the team, but he couldn't poke and prod them. Nor did he have any real tactics or strategy expertise.

Who were the assistant on Lewis era?

This Dave Lewis bashing is also quite ridiculously overblown... He had freaking 110-point and 109-point seasons. 3rd best (110p) after Stanley Cup hangover and President's Trophy (109p) after that. So it was pretty good coaching. Bowman's -99, -00- 01 seasons weren't that different vs. Lewis' -03 & -04 seasons. Injuries and goalie mess. Same script at playoff-time. Not just winning because the 3-ring core was getting older, and coach is the easy scapegoat.

 

[Winger98]

I took the "lacking people skills" comment to mean more about how Smith rubs management wrong, not players.

Who were the assistant on Lewis era?

This Dave Lewis bashing is also quite ridiculously overblown... He had freaking 110-point and 109-point seasons. 3rd best (110p) after Stanley Cup hangover and President's Trophy (109p) after that. So it was pretty good coaching. Bowman's -99, -00- 01 seasons weren't that different vs. Lewis' -03 & -04 seasons. Injuries and goalie mess. Same script at playoff-time. Not just winning because the 3-ring core was getting older, and coach is the easy scapegoat.

eh, I think Lewis takes too much flak, but he also wasn't blameless. He had a team that could still push through the regular season and rack up points, and they did. Once the playoffs hit and Lewis' work became more important his shortcomings showed. He got swept that first year, and the second year he chased the Iginla-Draper matchup way too hard, throwing off line combinations and ice times.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Worth a read?

I thought it was pretty good. Was kind of interesting to learn that he was one of those big guys that didn't really want to fight but did so to get to the NHL. Also some stories about his Wings days and when he left the year they won the Cup, Keenan, early Ducks stuff, etc.

Who were the assistant on Lewis era?

Smith and Joe "Who does he think he is? Bobby Knight?" Kocur

 

[MBH]

Who were the assistant on Lewis era?

This Dave Lewis bashing is also quite ridiculously overblown... He had freaking 110-point and 109-point seasons. 3rd best (110p) after Stanley Cup hangover and President's Trophy (109p) after that. So it was pretty good coaching. Bowman's -99, -00- 01 seasons weren't that different vs. Lewis' -03 & -04 seasons. Injuries and goalie mess. Same script at playoff-time. Not just winning because the 3-ring core was getting older, and coach is the easy scapegoat.

What year did you start watching hockey again?

 

[MBH]

Love this Babcock-hate. Everything like climate change is now his fault.

Babcock was absolutely what the team needed after the Lewis Country Club.
But god, from 09 finals onward, hard to point to many times when his coaching was a positive.

 

[Henkka]

Babcock was absolutely what the team needed after the Lewis Country Club.
But god, from 09 finals onward, hard to point to many times when his coaching was a positive.

His coaching was fine just like Dave Lewis coaching was fine with a regressed player material.

The team regressed after -09, all bargain contracts disappeared after success, which will happen for every successful team like Chicago. Suddenly Joel Quenneville became a bad coach too, when all Chicago cheap caphits realized for market price after success.

Why can't people see these obvious things.? Rosters and players have peak times, and when that passes by, no coach can do miracles with it.

 

[MBH]

His coaching was fine just like Dave Lewis coaching was fine with a regressed player material.

The team regressed after -09, all bargain contracts disappeared after success, which will happen for every successful team like Chicago. Suddenly Joel Quenneville became a bad coach too, when all Chicago cheap caphits realized for market price after success.

Why can't people see these obvious things.? Rosters and players have peak times, and when that passes by, no coach can do miracles with it.

Dave Lewis's coaching was not fine.
As evidence, check his career record after leaving Detroit.

Mike Babcock lost his ability to reach the team. He also seemed to struggle when coaches adapted to his gameplan.