Who's the better Ronaldo, Brazilian or Portuguese?

[Deficient Mode]

THEY'RE ATTACKERS. Of course goal totals are going to have the biggest affect on who the better player is. I don't get how people don't realize how f'ing good CR7 is, honestly in 20 years we're going to look back and be able to say he genuinely is of the best attacker and players to ever play the game. Ridiculous.

I explained why I don't think Cristiano's goal totals make him better than Ronaldo several pages back. Feel free to look at those posts.

My opinion of Cristiano won't change in 20 years. It's not based on any choker narrative (though he doesn't score nearly as much against good teams) or my dislike for him as a person. I just think he's very overrated. Not the best player on his team, nowhere near the best in the world.

 

[Evilo]

Some of the stuff in this thread is just mindboggling.
Now we're suddenly calling CR7 a choker or something? There were people who performed better in big games, in one game?
Calling Ronaldo a "passenger" in his teams is just ridiculous. I mean, seriously...

He was a passenger IN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE FINALS.
That was my post and until anyone else can prove otherwise, it's true.

Now compare with the alltime great, and tell me they were as ineffective in their biggest games?
CL final, WC final, EC final?
Ronaldo was NEVER capable of dominating a single game in those finals. That's what makes legends.
Maradona 86 WC, Platini 84 EC, etc..

We're reading here that Ronaldo is better than Platini for instance.
Yet Platini was capable of scoring 9 goals in a single EC, while Ronaldo did it in FOUR EC.

That's what legends are all about. Great career, great peak but above all a significant dominant solo performance.
Ronaldo never did that.

 

[YNWA14]

That's not what legends are all about though. Ronaldo has come up with some very crucial goals for all of his teams over time (again, only goal in the CL final for ManU, voted man of the match by the fans, etc.) but even ignoring that one game doesn't make a legend. Sorry. That's just silly. He was most certainly not a passenger in every single final, or title win, or the Euro win for example where they wouldn't have made it to the final without him, or domestic cups he's won, etc. etc.

Saying he's been a passenger in every single one is just hating on Ronaldo, plain and simple.

 

[Jussi]

That's not what legends are all about though. Ronaldo has come up with some very crucial goals for all of his teams over time (again, only goal in the CL final for ManU, voted man of the match by the fans, etc.) but even ignoring that one game doesn't make a legend. Sorry. That's just silly. He was most certainly not a passenger in every single final, or title win, or the Euro win for example where they wouldn't have made it to the final without him, or domestic cups he's won, etc. etc.

Saying he's been a passenger in every single one is just hating on Ronaldo, plain and simple.

This.

Also saying Ronaldo has limited football IQ, means the person didn't see how he and Rooney combined at United. They produced some magical counter attacks.

 

[Corto]

That's what legends are all about. Great career, great peak but above all a significant dominant solo performance.
Ronaldo never did that.

Legends? Sure. But "legends" does not equal better footballers.
You don't pick Schilachi over Del Piero or
Most value a great career - while constantly one of the best 2 players in the world, and the best by far in any non-Messi era - over having a great tournament.

But hey, lets harp on CR7 for lack of team success. Because winning a EURO, multiple CLs and League titles while being by far the best player on his team is somehow... What...? Bad because it's not in a single game, but constantly over a whole year.

He is constantly Real's best player, same as Messi in Barca. The occassional game where someone else pops up and decides a big game somehow badly reflects on him winning the thing in the end. Like Suarez deciding the Juve final a couple of years ago, that makes Messi somehow ordinary?

Please. Valuing one tournament or one freaking game over an entire 15 year career is hilarious.
And what's worse, you know it.

 

[Evilo]

That's not what legends are all about though. Ronaldo has come up with some very crucial goals for all of his teams over time (again, only goal in the CL final for ManU, voted man of the match by the fans, etc.) but even ignoring that one game doesn't make a legend. Sorry. That's just silly. He was most certainly not a passenger in every single final, or title win, or the Euro win for example where they wouldn't have made it to the final without him, or domestic cups he's won, etc. etc.

Saying he's been a passenger in every single one is just hating on Ronaldo, plain and simple.

He was a passenger in those finals. Yes.

Legends? Sure. But "legends" does not equal better footballers.
You don't pick Schilachi over Del Piero or
Most value a great career - while constantly one of the best 2 players in the world, and the best by far in any non-Messi era - over having a great tournament.

But hey, lets harp on CR7 for lack of team success. Because winning a EURO, multiple CLs and League titles while being by far the best player on his team is somehow... What...? Bad because it's not in a single game, but constantly over a whole year.

He is constantly Real's best player, same as Messi in Barca. The occassional game where someone else pops up and decides a big game somehow badly reflects on him winning the thing in the end. Like Suarez deciding the Juve final a couple of years ago, that makes Messi somehow ordinary?

Please. Valuing one tournament or one freaking game over an entire 15 year career is hilarious.
And what's worse, you know it.

He's constently Real's best player and Portugal but never in the final.
He doesn't have that big final performance that makes the legendary players.
The top 5 players in the history of the game have those. AND a brilliant career.
You don't seem to understand that a top 5 player needs both. Messi did it. Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Platini, Di Stefano, etc...

 

[cgf]

How the hell is CR7 winning this poll? More of you guys than this have to have seen him play in his prime.

This is like picking Brodeur over Hasek because of longevity.

 

[The Abusement Park]

How the hell is CR7 winning this poll? More of you guys than this have to have seen him play in his prime.

Cuz he's been the better player for longer.

 

[Live in the Now]

Hasek played great until he was in his 40's, so he had longevity.

How the hell is CR7 winning this poll?

It says in the OP, 'Use whatever your criteria for "best" is.'

My criteria is his level of play coupled with consistency, longevity, and durability. It's true that Cristiano isn't as good as Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Platini, Di Stefano, and a few others, but I think he's better than Ronaldo. And I love one and hate the other so it isn't a statement I like to make.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

He was a passenger IN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE FINALS.
That was my post and until anyone else can prove otherwise, it's true.

Now compare with the alltime great, and tell me they were as ineffective in their biggest games?
CL final, WC final, EC final?
Ronaldo was NEVER capable of dominating a single game in those finals. That's what makes legends.
Maradona 86 WC, Platini 84 EC, etc..

We're reading here that Ronaldo is better than Platini for instance.
Yet Platini was capable of scoring 9 goals in a single EC, while Ronaldo did it in FOUR EC.

That's what legends are all about. Great career, great peak but above all a significant dominant solo performance.
Ronaldo never did that.

I'm not going to get involved in this argument, as I was not watching in the days of R9, but I can't help but notice that in some GOAT arguments you totally downplay the importance of single tournament runs, and yet here you're using it as your basis. For Maradona your narrative is that "he had a crazy few weeks in 1986 and besides that was just a very good player, not GOAT material", and for CR7 it's "he never dominated a tournament so he's not a legend". Not making a comment on which is correct, as I am not nearly as well versed in the sport as you or many people on this board, but I just noticed how occasionally you overstate/understate the importance of a dominant tournament depending on the argument

 

[cgf]

Cuz he's been the better player for longer.

CR7's been around for longer, and is a nicer guy in person, but he's never been better than Ronaldo was in his prime.

 

[Evilo]

I'm not going to get involved in this argument, as I was not watching in the days of R9, but I can't help but notice that in some GOAT arguments you totally downplay the importance of single tournament runs, and yet here you're using it as your basis. For Maradona your narrative is that "he had a crazy few weeks in 1986 and besides that was just a very good player, not GOAT material", and for CR7 it's "he never dominated a tournament so he's not a legend". Not making a comment on which is correct, as I am not nearly as well versed in the sport as you or many people on this board, but I just noticed how occasionally you overstate/understate the importance of a dominant tournament depending on the argument

Problem is I NEVER said Maradona was NOT one of the best ever. He clearly is.
However he is NOT the best ever IMO for the reasons you stated.

You need both consistency and extraordinary dominance to be ranked into the best players ever. Ronaldo has one.
Maradona has both but only 2 decent seasons in Europe.
So he's top 5 but not the best.

 

[The Abusement Park]

CR7's been around for longer, and is a nicer guy in person, but he's never been better than Ronaldo was in his prime.

CR7 is the better goal scorer and that's pretty obvious. He's outscored Ronaldo's highest goal every season he's been at Madrid except for one. I just don't buy that, but I agree that R9 had more natural talent than CR7.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Messi's higher sure, but I'm not sure about Muller. His is obviously super high but higher than CR7? No way. It's messi and CR7 at 1 & 2 by a comfortable margin.

Take out Mueller's IQ and you don't have much of a football player. I think he's clearly smarter than Ronaldo. As was the likes of Xavi,Pirlo and Lahm etc.

 

[cgf]

CR7 is the better goal scorer and that's pretty obvious. He's outscored Ronaldo's highest goal every season he's been at Madrid except for one. I just don't buy that, but I agree that R9 had more natural talent than CR7.

I cannot help but feel like you weren't watching this sport in Ronaldo's heyday if you think CR7 compares to him as a goal scorer.

 

[Corto]

I cannot help but feel like you weren't watching this sport in Ronaldo's heyday if you think CR7 compares to him as a goal scorer.

Well then.

One scored 34 goals in 37 games. That's his best. Playing up front for an all-star team.
One scored 48 goals in 35 games. Playing up up front for an all star-team.

Comparing their peak is a stretch. Comparing how long that peak lasted is even more of a stretch.

Cristiano has outscored Ronaldo's highest scoring season 6 times. SIX TIMES.
And not by a goal or two, by 14, 13, 8, 6, 4 and 4.
SIX TIMES, and a few of them completely blowing Ronaldo's numbers out of the water.

Now, according to this thread, Ronaldo had more pure talent (I'm not going into that one, football talent is more than flashy plays, football talent is also reading plays, running into pockets, losing defenders, etc... but as far as the stuff R9 could do with the ball, lets say he had more talent), he contributed more to his team and he was also a better goalscorer. So much so that if one thinks otherwise "you must've not been watching football back in the day".

And yet somehow, all of CR7 accomplishments dwarf R9's.
And if someone mentions injuries, I'll say it again... His numbers don't compare in his best season to a number of CR7's seasons.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah but dribbles and flash.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I cannot help but feel like you weren't watching this sport in Ronaldo's heyday if you think CR7 compares to him as a goal scorer.

Isn't the fact that CR7 has out scored Ronaldo's peak in the majority of the seasons he's played proof enough? You're right I wasn't able to watch Ronaldo in his prime, but the stars are weighed very heavily towards CR7 being the better goal scorer.

 

[xavi4life]

I love how CR7 scores 3-4 meaningless goals against the weakest teams in LA LIGA year in year out, but he's the BESTEST RONALDO EVAH!

You guys crack me up.

 

[Live in the Now]

R9 did that exact same thing btw. If somebody wanted to be pedantic and pick apart his goalscoring record I bet it wouldn't be hard to do.

 

[YNWA14]

Newsflash...the best players score a lot of goals against bad teams.

 

[Deficient Mode]

R9 did that exact same thing btw. If somebody wanted to be pedantic and pick apart his goalscoring record I bet it wouldn't be hard to do.

Wouldn't it? It's a logical fallacy to presume that there's equivalence without any support for that idea.

I quickly calculated the average final table position of the opponent against which both Ronaldo's scored in their respective highest scoring season in La Liga.

96/97 Ronaldo with Barcelona. 34 goals in 37 matches. Average finishing position of opponent against which he scored a goal: 11.74th (out of 22 clubs). Equivalent in a 20 club league would be 10.66th.

14/15 Cristiano: 48 goals in 35 matches. Average finishing position of the opponent for each goal: 11.92th (out of 20 clubs).

So on average each of Cristiano's goals was scored again an opponent 1.26 places lower in the table if you adjust for a 20 club league. That's by no means an insignificant difference, and actually supports the notion that compared to Ronaldo, he was far better at running up the score against worse opponents. No one is saying that he shouldn't do so, but less important/decisive goals definitely inflate his goal totals (compared to Benzema this year, he was far worse at scoring goals when the match was close), and fans should definitely take that into account when comparing him to Ronaldo.

Ronaldo: 4 penalty goals in 96/97. Cristiano: 10(!) penalty goals in 14/15. Cristiano also played on a significantly better club with better teammates (for instance, on this date in 2015 Real Madrid had an Elo ranking of 2065; on this date in 1997 Barca had an Elo ranking of 1872 - about what Dortmund have today!). In 2014/15, Real Madrid scored 118 goals in 38 matches (3.1 goals per match). In 1996/97, Barcelona scored 102 goals in 42 matches (2.43 goals per match).

These factors must be taken into consideration to some degree. You're free to weigh them differently, but I'm tired of reading lazy arguments about historical equivalence that refuse to relativize how the game has changed.

 

[Live in the Now]

Ronaldo only played one year in La Liga?

 

[Deficient Mode]

Ronaldo only played one year in La Liga?

No one ever said that...

While everyone agrees that Cristiano had a longer and healthier career as a top player, many Cristiano supporters are saying that he was better at his peak than Ronaldo at his peak, so yes, a one year sample is relevant to the argument.

 

[YNWA14]

There's a lot of reaching going on here to justify nostalgia and flash over effectiveness. Nothing new there though. It happens with every generation.