Who's the better Ronaldo, Brazilian or Portuguese?

[Rexor]

His technical ability was always overrated and poorly integrated into the match. His skills were mostly stepovers on the sidelines that gained him and his team no ground and actually gave the defense more time to rotate over to him. Nothing compared to Messi's dribbling and the advantage he gained from it. That's not even to mention passing, if you include that in technique (as you should). The two are worlds apart in passing.

Passing has more to do with vision and football sense. He wasn't as effective as Messi - whom I like much better overall - and Ronaldinho's one-on-one game would likely be a better stylistical comparison in his early years, however, to say that his skills gave his team no ground is beyond laughable. Everyone who claims that he's only about pace and hard work or that he's just a quicker and more durable version of van Nistelrooy should really watch a few videos. His pure talent is off the charts:

 

[Rexor]

 

[Corto]

His non-penalty goal scoring numbers per 90 minutes were just as impressive as Cristiano's if not more so and he did a ton more to impact the game positively when he wasn't scoring. Love when people try to talk about longevity in a sport whose list of greats is dominated by players who built a reputation on one or two tournaments. I value peak far more highly - as, apparently, do most fans - and at his peak, Ronaldo de Lima had a far greater impact on a match than Cristiano. Adjusted plus/minus stats back this up as well. You may not be biased, but you're certainly uninformed if you're making your judgment based on total goal numbers accumulated without adjusting for playing time or penalties.

The goal totals are just there to emphasize the difference.
I've watched both of their careers, from the time they were 18 year old kids.

I don't put a lot of stock into one or two tournaments, and very few people who know football do.
I know of no list that has Toto Schillaci over George Weah or some nonsense like that.

I don't think people realize just how good Cristiano is. Or how short Ronaldo da Lima's "peak" was... It was basically one season in Barcelona that was Messi/CR7 level, rest was - like I said - great, Ibra-level great.... But not Messi/CR7, not even close.

Their 5 best seasons:
CR7: 266 gp, 280 goals
Ronaldo: 224 games, 177 goals

Ronaldo's numbers are fantastic.
But CR7's numbers dwarf them.
This isn't a tiny difference that you offset by penalties (which Ronaldo took regularly btw, especially for Brazil).

...

Again, maybe it's the Messi factor and CR7 always seemingly being 2nd best (which is fair enough, I rate Messi above him), but these two are so far ahead of anything that's ever been done in football over a prolongued period of time that it takes tremendous amount of effort NOT to see it.

Maradona certainly doesn't come close to it, guys like Zidane, Platini and Cruyff, though absolutely legends and different players (less about goals than Messi and CR7, same as Maradona) never came close to that level of dominance.
The only who compares is Pele, but he'll always have a massive asterisk for most football fans due to the quality of the competition where he scored most of his goals.
(obviously, it's harder to compare guys like Beckenbauer or Maldini etc., but their impact on the game was different because of the positions they played)

 

[Deficient Mode]

The goal totals are just there to emphasize the difference.
I've watched both of their careers, from the time they were 18 year old kids.

I don't put a lot of stock into one or two tournaments, and very few people who know football do.
I know of no list that has Toto Schillaci over George Weah or some nonsense like that.

I don't think people realize just how good Cristiano is. Or how short Ronaldo da Lima's "peak" was... It was basically one season in Barcelona that was Messi/CR7 level, rest was - like I said - great, Ibra-level great.... But not Messi/CR7, not even close.

Their 5 best seasons:
CR7: 266 gp, 280 goals
Ronaldo: 224 games, 177 goals

Ronaldo's numbers are fantastic.
But CR7's numbers dwarf them.
This isn't a tiny difference that you offset by penalties (which Ronaldo took regularly btw, especially for Brazil).

...

Again, maybe it's the Messi factor and CR7 always seemingly being 2nd best (which is fair enough, I rate Messi above him), but these two are so far ahead of anything that's ever been done in football over a prolongued period of time that it takes tremendous amount of effort NOT to see it.

Maradona certainly doesn't come close to it, guys like Zidane, Platini and Cruyff, though absolutely legends and different players (less about goals than Messi and CR7, same as Maradona) never came close to that level of dominance.
The only who compares is Pele, but he'll always have a massive asterisk for most football fans due to the quality of the competition where he scored most of his goals.
(obviously, it's harder to compare guys like Beckenbauer or Maldini etc., but their impact on the game was different because of the positions they played)

What about Pele and Maradona? Many think those are the two best ever basically because they did well in a couple WCs. Or even Beckenbauer.

I realize just how good Cristiano is. I don't give a **** about his personality; he's middle of the road for a high profile footballer. My objections are entirely to his play. It's not the Messi factor at all. Cristiano isn't even the second best player of the past decade in my eyes. Football is a far more complex sport than goals.

You can put up the goal totals as much as you want. But again, if you don't adjust for playing time, penalties, and differences in scoring between eras (hit an all-time low in the 90s from which it has slowly recovered in every league), then your argument for Cristiano over Ronaldo is about as flimsy as saying Robitaille was a better player than Crosby because he scored more goals.

 

[Panteras]

the thing is, CR was just a much better "player" when he was at United, specially during his last years where he had matured into an outstanding player. He was more involved, just a better footballer all around.

Now, he really is as I glanced over this thread a super Van Nistelrooy basically...just at the right place at the right time with a killer instinct in the 6 yard box and superb finishing skills.

His role has changed....

 

[Corto]

What about Pele and Maradona? Many think those are the two best ever basically because they did well in a couple WCs. Or even Beckenbauer.

Many do, but as I said in the other post I don't agree with them.
Maradona had the best tournament of any human being yet, and he was a fantastic player, a legend, but his club career left much to be desired in comparison with other greats.
Pele, like I said, will always have that asterisk next to his name for a lot of people - we'll simply never know how he would've fared in European leagues.

Beckenbauer is something else entirely. He was the smartest player to ever play the game, his positional was perfect every single time in every single game, he wasn't the strongest or fastest etc.... Dude was just thinking the game a level above everyone else.

You can put up the goal totals as much as you want. But again, if you don't adjust for playing time, penalties, and differences in scoring between eras (hit an all-time low in the 90s from which it has slowly recovered in every league), then your argument for Cristiano over Ronaldo is about as flimsy as saying Robitaille was a better player than Crosby because he scored more goals.

All the stuff you mentioned have nothing to do with how I formed my opinion.
Firstly, Ronaldo da Lima took penalties wherever he played for most of his career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSWP8E41nAk

Secondly, I'm not comparing them without mentioning games played.
And most importantly, Ronaldo - apart from that one magical season in Barcelona - never set himself apart from the field as much as CR7 has (along with Messi).
There were always players who up there with him, or ahead of him when it came to goalscoring. He was never the top scorer in Italy (only came close the one time), and only twice in Spain.
I'm not saying that because he has to be the top scorer, but to show you just how reachable his totals were to others when compared to CR7.

And lastly, I don't even get why you're brushing aside goals when we're comparing a pure striker (in Ronaldo da Lima) to a winger-turned-striker (CR7).
It's not like any of them plays in a Zidane role so goals don't tell you a lot, in this case... They do. Not everything, but a huge portion of it.

I mean, Ronaldo was the spearhead of the Galacticos for 4 years (5th was a write off due to injuries). Combined with his ridiculous season at Barca, he'd end up scoring 117 La Liga goals in 164 games. 0.69 goals per game in football is truly fantastic.
But CR7 has 260 goals in 236 games. 1.1 goals per game is absolutely ridiculous.

And again, we're comparing strikers, not defensive midfielders, not full backs... Goals tell most of the story, especially when there's a massive difference when comparing them to each other and most importantly, when comparing them to the rest of the players in their playing time.

the thing is, CR was just a much better "player" when he was at United, specially during his last years where he had matured into an outstanding player. He was more involved, just a better footballer all around.

Now, he really is as I glanced over this thread a super Van Nistelrooy basically...just at the right place at the right time with a killer instinct in the 6 yard box and superb finishing skills.

His role has changed....

He's moved from playing an attacking winger and being all along the pitch to being much closer to something like a wide striker.
He's not nearly as flashy as he used to be (or as Messi is) but he is as efficient ever.
And developed areas in his play that were rarely visible at ManU (aerial play for example).

 

[Deficient Mode]

Many do, but as I said in the other post I don't agree with them.
Maradona had the best tournament of any human being yet, and he was a fantastic player, a legend, but his club career left much to be desired in comparison with other greats.
Pele, like I said, will always have that asterisk next to his name for a lot of people - we'll simply never know how he would've fared in European leagues.

Beckenbauer is something else entirely. He was the smartest player to ever play the game, his positional was perfect every single time in every single game, he wasn't the strongest or fastest etc.... Dude was just thinking the game a level above everyone else.


All the stuff you mentioned have nothing to do with how I formed my opinion.
Firstly, Ronaldo da Lima took penalties wherever he played for most of his career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSWP8E41nAk

Secondly, I'm not comparing them without mentioning games played.
And most importantly, Ronaldo - apart from that one magical season in Barcelona - never set himself apart from the field as much as CR7 has (along with Messi).
There were always players who up there with him, or ahead of him when it came to goalscoring. He was never the top scorer in Italy (only came close the one time), and only twice in Spain.
I'm not saying that because he has to be the top scorer, but to show you just how reachable his totals were to others when compared to CR7.

And lastly, I don't even get why you're brushing aside goals when we're comparing a pure striker (in Ronaldo da Lima) to a winger-turned-striker (CR7).
It's not like any of them plays in a Zidane role so goals don't tell you a lot, in this case... They do. Not everything, but a huge portion of it.

I mean, Ronaldo was the spearhead of the Galacticos for 4 years (5th was a write off due to injuries). Combined with his ridiculous season at Barca, he'd end up scoring 117 La Liga goals in 164 games. 0.69 goals per game in football is truly fantastic.
But CR7 has 260 goals in 236 games. 1.1 goals per game is absolutely ridiculous.

And again, we're comparing strikers, not defensive midfielders, not full backs... Goals tell most of the story, especially when there's a massive difference when comparing them to each other and most importantly, when comparing them to the rest of the players in their playing time.




He's moved from playing an attacking winger and being all along the pitch to being much closer to something like a wide striker.
He's not nearly as flashy as he used to be (or as Messi is) but he is as efficient ever.
And developed areas in his play that were rarely visible at ManU (aerial play for example).

You said very few people who know football put stock into one or two tournaments. Does that mean most people who put Maradona or Pele as two of the best ever don't know football? What you're saying about Beckenbauer's intelligence is wrong. He was by all means a world class player and one of the best of his time, but the entire myth of his greatness is predicated on one tournament run, and his elegance (rather than intelligence).

Again, you can't just compare one goals per game count to the other without contextualizing for a lower scoring era, injuries, and so on. Ronaldo rarely took penalties for Real. Between Barca and Real in La Liga play he took 10 penalties and scored 8 out of 117 total goals. On the other hand, 52 of Cristiano's 260 La Liga goals were penalties (plus 7 misses). 6.837% vs. a full 20%. Don't pretend their share of penalties are at all equivalent. 109 non-penalty goals in 13,124 minutes (.747 goals per 90) of La Liga play vs. 208 in 20,271 minutes (.923 per 90). That's not a huge difference when you account for the fact that Ronaldo had already declined by the time he went back to La Liga, and his best years were at Inter and one year at Barcelona, as opposed to Cristiano, who spent more of the most productive part of his career in La Liga.

Ronaldo did a lot more beyond scoring goals. Cristiano was far more mediocre in that area. I'm willing to bet Ronaldo drew a higher percentage of those penalties he took, as well, but I don't know of any data to support that.

 

[Cassano]

the thing is, CR was just a much better "player" when he was at United, specially during his last years where he had matured into an outstanding player. He was more involved, just a better footballer all around.

Now, he really is as I glanced over this thread a super Van Nistelrooy basically...just at the right place at the right time with a killer instinct in the 6 yard box and superb finishing skills.

His role has changed....

It's like people forgot 2008 happened.

 

[pcruz]

R9 wins from a pure talent and imagination perspective. Like Ronaldinho, not many players ever come out with so much raw talent.

CR7 wins from a fitness and dedication perspective. R9 and Ronaldinho, well we know how much they liked to party. CR7 Doesn't drink at all.

I had that exact same video to post here, but there's little use in doing so twice.

Here is a Portuguese person saying that Ronaldo is right up there with Ronaldinho in my opinion of the best pure talents of all time. I think that had he not had both knees blow up on him, he would be right up there with Pele, Maradona and Cruijf as the best and most respected players ever.

Cristiano Ronaldo is a guy that I have had much internal turmoil about. I have always appreciated his talent from the first time I watched him play for Sporting, however I didn't see him as the best player on that team (Quaresma). What he's done since going to Manchester United has been absolutely incredible and his goal scoring record is absolutely phenomenal.

I see him as an extremely talented player who also has the most determination out of any athlete in the world to be the very best. That's the one thing that nobody can ever deny the guy, his will to be better. I just don't think he's as naturally talented as many others, specifically Messi.

Ronaldo never had that. He was always the most talented player on the field. At no point in his career could you look at him and not fully believe that he could jog through the entire opposing team with that ball super-glued to his boots and dribble the goalie.

The perfect player would have the aerial ability and determination of Cristiano Ronaldo, the natural ability to read the play of Ronaldinho, the creativity of Ronaldo and the skill of either Ronaldo or Ronaldinho.
I'd pay top dollar to watch that guy practice, nevermind play games.

 

[Corto]

You said very few people who know football put stock into one or two tournaments. Does that mean most people who put Maradona or Pele as two of the best ever don't know football?

I never said that.
And they are not very similar scenarios either. Pele's "problem" is playing in weaker leagues his whole life. Yet he did score 770ish competitive goals, which is ridiculous.
Maradona's problem is similar to Ronaldo's, his peak years were few and far between, there was always something preventing him from being dominant etc.
Outside of a couple of years in Napoli, his club career (especially in Europe) was pedestrian.

What you're saying about Beckenbauer's intelligence is wrong. He was by all means a world class player and one of the best of his time, but the entire myth of his greatness is predicated on one tournament run, and his elegance (rather than intelligence).

I cannot disagree more.
I've watched Beckenbauer and Cruyff a LOT, written papers on them - even if both were way before my time as a football fan/player.
Beckenbauer was so much more than a one-tournament guy, he was a force in Bayern's dominance in Europe (3 straight Euro Cups, Champions League at the time) and even when he got back from the US, he made an impact and won the title with Hamburg.
The dude reinvented the libero role, he modernized it from the catenaccio, and as former midfielder, he could control the play from the back lines.
I'll say it again, he's thought the game a level above anyone else at the time.

Again, you can't just compare one goals per game count to the other without contextualizing for a lower scoring era, injuries, and so on. Ronaldo rarely took penalties for Real. Between Barca and Real in La Liga play he took 10 penalties and scored 8 out of 117 total goals. On the other hand, 52 of Cristiano's 260 La Liga goals were penalties (plus 7 misses). 6.837% vs. a full 20%. Don't pretend their share of penalties are at all equivalent. 109 non-penalty goals in 13,124 minutes (.747 goals per 90) of La Liga play vs. 208 in 20,271 minutes (.923 per 90). That's not a huge difference when you account for the fact that Ronaldo had already declined by the time he went back to La Liga, and his best years were at Inter and one year at Barcelona, as opposed to Cristiano, who spent more of the most productive part of his career in La Liga.

I never looked up stats for penalties. It doesn't matter to me.
Firstly, penalties are goals. Secondly, the difference is so massive you can take away the 50 penalties by CR7 and he still absolutely dwarfs Ronaldo's numbers.
.923 per 90 compared to .747 is pretty big. And you're taking out penalties and what not to level the playing field.

As for Ronaldo's best years being behind him in Real, I don't know what to tell you.
He literally had two good seasons at top level before his Real time. One in Barca, one in Inter.
And even if you take his very best season and compare to Ronaldo's best, it simply doesn't compare.
34 La Liga goals cannot compare to 48 La Liga goals. 14 goals is a decent striker's worth.
47 goals in all competitions don't compare to 61 goals.

Ronaldo did a lot more beyond scoring goals. Cristiano was far more mediocre in that area. I'm willing to bet Ronaldo drew a higher percentage of those penalties he took, as well, but I don't know of any data to support that.

Ronaldo was a pure striker. Like I said, Ibra would've been a much better comparison.
Calling CR7 "mediocre" beyond goal scoring is a bit silly tbh.
Not only are his assist totals fairly high as well, the dude was a WINGER basically his entire time at ManU.
His job was to create plays and create opportunities for others if he could, for himself when he could, he wasn't simply a prolific finisher.
He's changed his game over the years (noone can say it hasn't worked), the flashiness has subsided, but he's as deadly as ever.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Penalties count the same as regulation goals for the team's purposes but when you're evaluating players individually it makes perfect and obvious sense to bracket them off. How is that even questionable? Making penalties is by all means a skill but just the nature of the event gives the shooter an 80%+ chance of scoring. Any half decent lower league striker will also score 80% of penalty kicks. It's just not a skill where anyone can distinguish themselves from the pack (except keepers).

Cliches about the roles of wingers and strikers creativity vs. scoring won't convince me at all. Cristiano was a far more goal-oriented player his entire career. Maybe Zlatan's numbers are comparable to Ronaldo, but his playing style isn't. Mainly because despite Zlatan's tremendous technique, he isn't as good at it while he's moving, whereas few players in history had control comparable to Ronaldo at full speed.

And yeah, scoring has generally continued to rise in all leagues including Spain. Here's a graphic that shows the trend:

If you think adjusting for penalties and league-wide goal scoring is a bad idea, I don't know what to tell you except don't try to study statistics. You won't like what you find.

Cristiano's goal scoring rates in his best seasons probably still come out on top after you make those adjustments, but the gap isn't nearly as big as the gap in creativity for teammates (assist numbers are flawed, and Ronaldo was a far better passer than most ever gave him credit for and better than Cristiano), intelligence, and space-making for Ronaldo Fenomeno. At least that's how I judge the value of those characteristics.

 

[Corto]

Cristiano was a far more goal-oriented player his entire career.

That's simply not true. It's not an opinion, it's fact.

For the vast majority of his ManU career, he played as a winger.
For the first 3-4 years he played behind Van Nistelrooy and a combination of Saha/Solskjaer.
The other 2-3 he spent behind Rooney and Tevez, playing on the right wing opposite Giggs (sometimes Park later on). Scholes and Carrick/Haargraves/Anderson were mostly used in the classic midfield roles, holding the middle of the ground.

It was a 4-4-2, though very modern and it allowed for the 4 front players to rotate and run into pockets of space - but yes, Ronaldo spent most of his time as a winger.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Position doesn't matter in this regard. What you've said doesn't undermine that he was a goal-oriented player.

 

[YNWA14]

Do you not think that the stats for goals in Spain rising are not probably skewed a bit from having both Messi and Ronaldo, two of the most prolific goal scorers of all time, in it at the same time? Goals going up is also probably a direct result of the influx of money in the game allowing the top teams to distance themselves further from the 'have-nots'.

 

[Hadoop]

Close poll. Still think Cristiano is better though. 3 Ballon D'Ors (soon to be 4) along with 4 other runner-up finishes while playing in the same era as Messi tips the scales decisively in his favour IMO.

 

[Acallabeth]

I've always felt that star depth, level of defense and teams' parity was a bit better in Ronaldo's era. Sure, both Ronaldo da Lima and Cristiano Ronaldo played for juggernauts, but there's a competition question for the time when 2 players separates themselves that much.

Unlike CR, Ronaldo da Lima has also led his national team to a major championship (I know Cr won Euro just this month, but did he really show the game expected from a player of his caliber?). It's really sad we in fact never saw his prime.

Then again, I can see how people vote for Cristiano Ronaldo, he's a tremendous player himself.

 

[Peter Zezel]

I had that exact same video to post here, but there's little use in doing so twice.

Here is a Portuguese person saying that Ronaldo is right up there with Ronaldinho in my opinion of the best pure talents of all time. I think that had he not had both knees blow up on him, he would be right up there with Pele, Maradona and Cruijf as the best and most respected players ever.

Cristiano Ronaldo is a guy that I have had much internal turmoil about. I have always appreciated his talent from the first time I watched him play for Sporting, however I didn't see him as the best player on that team (Quaresma). What he's done since going to Manchester United has been absolutely incredible and his goal scoring record is absolutely phenomenal.

I see him as an extremely talented player who also has the most determination out of any athlete in the world to be the very best. That's the one thing that nobody can ever deny the guy, his will to be better. I just don't think he's as naturally talented as many others, specifically Messi.

Ronaldo never had that. He was always the most talented player on the field. At no point in his career could you look at him and not fully believe that he could jog through the entire opposing team with that ball super-glued to his boots and dribble the goalie.

The perfect player would have the aerial ability and determination of Cristiano Ronaldo, the natural ability to read the play of Ronaldinho, the creativity of Ronaldo and the skill of either Ronaldo or Ronaldinho.
I'd pay top dollar to watch that guy practice, nevermind play games.

I'm not a huge soccer fan, but this sums up what I thought very well. Just watching the CR7 and R9 compilation videos you can see that dividing line in skill easily.

CR7 has had the best career, however I would take R9's peak and 'what if' he stayed healthy.

 

[cgf]

[snip]
I've watched Beckenbauer and Cruyff a LOT, written papers on them - even if both were way before my time as a football fan/player.
Beckenbauer was so much more than a one-tournament guy, he was a force in Bayern's dominance in Europe (3 straight Euro Cups, Champions League at the time) and even when he got back from the US, he made an impact and won the title with Hamburg.
The dude reinvented the libero role, he modernized it from the catenaccio, and as former midfielder, he could control the play from the back lines.
I'll say it again, he's thought the game a level above anyone else at the time.

Beckenbauer didn't even think the game a level above all of his team-mates. Gerd & Netzer were just as brilliant mentally; and Netzer was even more majestic technically.

 

[Suiteness]

I've always felt that star depth, level of defense and teams' parity was a bit better in Ronaldo's era. Sure, both Ronaldo da Lima and Cristiano Ronaldo played for juggernauts, but there's a competition question for the time when 2 players separates themselves that much.

Absolutely. Football is laughably bad nowadays when you compare the top talent of the R9 era. Who is the #3 behind Messi and Ronaldo nowadays? Suarez perhaps? Neymar? Pretty good players, yes, but can these two compare to Zidane, Rivaldo, Dinho, Kaka, Figo, Batigol, Henry, Del Piero, Bergamkp and the others who were dominating the Continent at the time?

The big mistake being made in this thread is the focus is on goals and goals only. Goals should not be the penultimate method of comparing players in this game. If we're only using that metric the play-maker who made others around him better will always lose that battle. Ruud Van Nistelrooy has probably scored 400 more goals than Zidane, derp derp he's obviously better?

Nonsense. To me it boils down to natural ability and the impact that the player has made on the game. This is why I will always rank Dinho as one of the absolute best. The way he played, the ability that he had, I've never seen this and I don't know if we'll ever see that again either. When it comes to pure footballing talent, R9 is second to Ronaldinho only.

 

[Corto]

The big mistake being made in this thread is the focus is on goals and goals only. Goals should not be the penultimate method of comparing players in this game. If we're only using that metric the play-maker who made others around him better will always lose that battle. Ruud Van Nistelrooy has probably scored 400 more goals than Zidane, derp derp he's obviously better?

"Derp derp?"

You're comparing a striker to a winger-turned-striker.
You're not comparing Zidane or Kaka to Cristiano, you're comparing an out-and-out striker to him.

Goals are the primary stat to go by, yes, in this instance.
In every team Ronaldo played, his primary task was to score goals.

As for the competition, I'd say the 3rd best player is probably Suarez at this point (even his 40 league goals are 6 more than R9 ever scored in any league).
Maybe Ibra, though past his prime. Bale's there too.
And then you have the batch of players who are brilliant at what they do, but not nearly as flashy - Iniesta, Modric, etc.
It's certainly more top heavy (the quality today, but that's normal when you have both Messi and CR7 playing at the same time), but it's by no means lacking in depth.

 

[Evilo]

No, it's not lacking in depth it's just that that depth is limited to 5-6 teams. At best.

That wasn't the case at the time.

 

[Corto]

No, it's not lacking in depth it's just that that depth is limited to 5-6 teams. At best.

That wasn't the case at the time.

Well, the big difference is the Serie A thing and all the scandals and demotions.
Juventus has somewhat recovered, but Milan and Co. are still to recover.
At the time, Serie A was unquestionably the best league in the world.

 

[Evilo]

I'm talking about the state of football in Europe, not Italy.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

CR7 AINEC.

I'm actually quite shocked by the level of Christiano hate in this thread. He is *easily* a top 5 player of all time for me, up there with Messi, Maradonna and Pele.

Fat Ronaldo was a great player for a few seasons, but he's in that bracket below with the likes of Zidane etc. What CR7 (and Messi) have achieved is comparable to Lemiuex level numbers, they are so far in front of their peers its ridiculous. This "harder working RvN" nonsense is just that, nonsense.

 

[Evilo]

What's your top 5 again ?