WWE: Who's the Best Ever? Part Infinity

[GarbageGoal]

I love that Bret Hart wasn’t even listed as an option (as well he shouldn’t)

Too bad, because he's right up there for me.

 

[Le Tricolore]

The fact someone could do this as a topic and not mention Bruno is just mindblowing.

or Bret.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Too bad, because he's right up there for me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Yours just happens to be wrong.

 

[Paris in Flames]

Bret is considerably better than several names on the list, IMO.

Also. In terms of overall package of in ring, character, promo, longevity and knowledge of the business...I truly believe there's nobody better than Chris Jericho.

However that's based on my criteria and doesn't necessarily take into account popularity or draw power.

 

[sabremike]

Which part of that has to do with "who is the best"? Hockey is only played on a large scale because of the money aspect, very similar to wrestling. Again, just like movies, music and most other entertainment industries that you for some reason didn't mention. Most people would laugh at someone who suggested that Avatar was the greatest movie of all time because it made the most money, and yet in wrestling people make analogous statements as if there is nothing odd about it.

I'm aware of the general history of wrestling, I don't need Cornette and company to tell me who the main draws were when that has essentially nothing to do with who the best wrestlers were. It's a bizarre stance to take that is almost exclusive to wrestling, and as I already noted I don't get why wrestling people go for weak appeals to authority rather than generating their own opinions when it doesn't happen in most other entertainment fields. No one cites the opinion of a film studio executive for instance when looking for the best movie or actor of all time. I honestly would like to find out why it comes up fairly often in wrestling as opposed to other entertainment industries. I lean toward it being the carny aspect but who knows.

As for my own:

Most popular - Rikidozan or Londos I guess (Austin in modern times)
Most entertaining - The Rock
Best wrestler - Michaels
Best "character" - Flair (very hard to pick)
Best "storyteller" (mic work) - Austin
Best all around - Michaels (HM to Savage)

If you are mentioning Rikidozan and making it international then most popular would be him, El Santo and nobody else even close. Frankly I'd go with El Santo. Several years back they did a poll in Mexico asking who they considered the greatest Mexican (not athlete or entertainer) ever and Santo finished 2nd or 3rd.

 

[Sheppy]

Owen was better than Bret imo

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Bret is considerably better than several names on the list, IMO.

Also. In terms of overall package of in ring, character, promo, longevity and knowledge of the business...I truly believe there's nobody better than Chris Jericho.

However that's based on my criteria and doesn't necessarily take into account popularity or draw power.

I also think Jericho is a strong contender. I just wish he would have had a stronger babyface run at some point.

 

[HandsomeHollywood]

I also think Jericho is a strong contender. I just wish he would have had a stronger babyface run at some point.

I think he did, it just wasn't in the main event. His babyface run in 2000 is pretty good up until after Mania 17, until his heel turn and undisputed title win.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I think he did, it just wasn't in the main event. His babyface run in 2000 is pretty good up until after Mania 17, until his heel turn and undisputed title win.

That’s what I mean. I wish he would have a run at the main event level with the title.

The time was 2004. Benoit had lost steam, Randy Orton was not ready and HBK was off for a good chunk of it.

The Orton/Evolution feud didn’t have to have the title in it IMO

 

[HandsomeHollywood]

That’s what I mean. I wish he would have a run at the main event level with the title.

The time was 2004. Benoit had lost steam, Randy Orton was not ready and HBK was off for a good chunk of it.

The Orton/Evolution feud didn’t have to have the title in it IMO

If there was a time to do it, that was it. After that the fans generally got tired of his babyface shtick with even less tolerance of it when on a higher card spot.
What if Cena turned heel instead of Jericho in the build to SummerSlam 05? Could've been good.

 

[Alex Jones]

I guess if we're not taking it international...

To me there are three guys that just stand out above anyone else that I've watched on the American scene...

Shawn Michaels
Bryan Danielson
Chris Benoit

I guess Shawn is the guy that I would have to go with, but Danielson is very close. His unified match with Nigel Mcguinnes is my favorite non Japanese match, although I guess that was more about Nigel.

After that tier I would go... Not in order

Kurt Angle
AJ Styles
Dean Malenko
Bret Hart
Rey Misterio

 

[HandsomeHollywood]

Owen was better than Bret imo

This is a take often made. I must disagree with it, though I don't think it's a bad take.
Owen had Bret beaten easily in speech, that's the only advantage I give him. Owen was clearly a technical marvel and was great at playing a chicken heel. Later on in his career when he got more and more serious I didn't like it as much. His caution tape, "Enough is Enough" phase is considerably overrated to me. I can't see him ascending the card too high with that gimmick. Screamed mid-card to me. The Black Hart stuff they were doing and his one man war being waged on D-X after the screwjob was interesting, but ultimately cut short. Could have had some legs.
Bret on the other hand was no slouch when it came to character work, it's just a different character. He oozed the aura of being a professional and a technical badass. Almost like he was too good for such games.
I'd say at best they're on the same level technically, but with Owen having a better flying/high energy aspect and with Bret having a better ground game and better selling. Also Bret's promo skills steadily improved in his career, with 96/97 seeing him correcting a lot of past limitations.

In the end it's all about taste, and it's great how the Harts of Bret and Owen offered two considerably different styles and characters.

 

[93gilmour93]

 

[JackSlater]

If you are mentioning Rikidozan and making it international then most popular would be him, El Santo and nobody else even close. Frankly I'd go with El Santo. Several years back they did a poll in Mexico asking who they considered the greatest Mexican (not athlete or entertainer) ever and Santo finished 2nd or 3rd.

You're right, it would be El Santo... my mistake there. I was including international wrestlers in my considerations. I rank Kenta Kobashi very high in ring, but it's difficult to judge a wrestler completely when I can't understand him on the mic. Not that AJPW really required that of him I guess.

For what it's worth, when CBC did the greatest Canadian ever poll Bret Hart came 39th. For the purposes of the poll in this thread I'd rank him second.

 

[JJ68]

What made Bret the best there is was that he made everything feel legit. His promos weren't forced, he got you involved and believed in everything he was saying. Its why his rivalries were the best. His mic work from 97 era was top notch and yes, better than HBK's shoddy drunken stuff from the same timeframe.

His matches drew you in because he looked legit badass and he could tell a story in the ring like no other.

Brret was also a huge worldwide star. Their biggest name on the international front.

But best talker was no doubt Piper. He didnt need a script, he needed nothing but his wit and charisma. The guy could slap anyone into his back pocket. Rock had his one liners and all that, but Piper was just a machine on the mic.
Pillman was also absurd on the mic.

Austin was at his best from 96 to mid 98. His DTA character and that true venom came then. Once he started giving a crap about others or going into his comedic phase he just wasnt Stone Cold any longer and they hurt his character.

 

[TNT87]

Shawn Michaels.

 

[BonMorrison]

After doing this for so long, I don't have an answer anymore tbh. I think with how the business works and how it's changed over the years, the answer is a lot more nuanced than just picking a person.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I gave it to Flair for his total body of work.

Austin's pops though.....nothing comes close.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I gave it to Flair for his total body of work.

Austin's pops though.....nothing comes close.

I don't know, that pop last night for Undertaker is hard to top.

Between his gong, and Austin's broken glass, nothing else really comes close as far as immediate crowd reaction. That much is true.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

I don't know, that pop last night for Undertaker is hard to top.

Between his gong, and Austin's broken glass, nothing else really comes close as far as immediate crowd reaction. That much is true.

I think Austin had a bigger pop at Raw 25 than Taker did last night and Austin didn’t have the post-WM crowd advantage.

No one touches Austin’s pops imo. His appearance when Mankind won the title might be the biggest pop ever.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I think Austin had a bigger pop at Raw 25 than Taker did last night and Austin didn’t have the post-WM crowd advantage.

No one touches Austin’s pops imo. His appearance when Mankind won the title might be the biggest pop ever.

Maybe, but that was his return after being away for how long? Couple years, maybe more. So the return element factored in as well.

Rock's "if ya smell" has the same effect, after he's away for long enough. But with Taker, it feels as though no matter how often it's played the reaction is the same. It's just more sudden than the others, could have something to do with the lights going out.

The timing last night was absolutely perfect, too, and Elias sold it so well.

 

[JackSlater]

No one touches Austin for crowd reaction at his peak. At a very hot period no one (Rock, Foley, Undertaker etc.) got the volume or consistency that Austin did, and since then things have fallen off quite a bit in terms of crowd reactions. Hogan was probably the best at extending a pop with his gestures.

 

[Sheppy]

The pop for Austin at RAW 25 was the biggest pop since the Hardy’s return at WM33.

 

[Sheppy]

Like f*** me, listen to this place....

 

[Say Hey Kid]

After doing this for so long, I don't have an answer anymore tbh. I think with how the business works and how it's changed over the years, the answer is a lot more nuanced than just picking a person.

By this argument all sports and awards should be eliminated, because "the answer is a lot more nuanced than just picking a person" or team. Please.