Who's the best all-time non-Canadian hockey player?

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kmad

riot survivor
Jun 16, 2003
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Do we go with a European NHLer (Forsberg, Jagr, Salming, Kurri, Lidstrom, Hasek, Fedorov, Stastny), an American NHLer (Leetch, Modano, LaFontaine) or do we go with someone from behind the iron curtain (Dzurilla, Tretiak, Kharlamov)?

Comparing the first two to the last one will be a challenge. Personally, I'm torn between three: Jagr, Hasek and Kharlamov. Once again, comparing Hasek to Jagr and Kharlamov is again difficult. It could come down to personal preference.

The Hockey News' top 100 (only including NHL players) has the top non-Canadian of all time as Jaromir Jagr at #37. Top American player is Chris Chelios at #40. No Russians cracked the list. Kurri was 50th and Hasek was 95th.
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
kmad said:
Do we go with a European NHLer (Forsberg, Jagr, Salming, Kurri, Lidstrom, Hasek, Fedorov, Stastny), an American NHLer (Leetch, Modano, LaFontaine) or do we go with someone from behind the iron curtain (Dzurilla, Tretiak, Kharlamov)?

Comparing the first two to the last one will be a challenge. Personally, I'm torn between three: Jagr, Hasek and Kharlamov. Once again, comparing Hasek to Jagr and Kharlamov is again difficult. It could come down to personal preference.

The Hockey News' top 100 (only including NHL players) has the top non-Canadian of all time as Jaromir Jagr at #37. Top American player is Chris Chelios at #40. No Russians cracked the list. Kurri was 50th and Hasek was 95th.

Hasek would be the top goalie.

For skaters, it would play out like this:

Jagr.
Lidstrom
Chelios
Forsberg
Kurri
 
Ogopogo said:
Hasek would be the top goalie.

For skaters, it would play out like this:

Jagr.
Lidstrom
Chelios
Forsberg
Kurri

I think this is close but I would put Modano at #3. 400 goals, 600 assists and he has had 8 80-point seasons since 92-93. The only other active player to do so? Jaromir Jagr.

His defence and all around play are at least equal to Kurri and Forsberg, but his consistency is what sets him apart.
 

soulok*

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8 80 point seasons are ok .... but in front of kurri and forsberg modano just doesnt cut it. forsbergs points per game is soo much higher and kurri scored over 100 points 6 times! and would have scored 100 points 7 times if he didnt miss 10 games in 82. in my opinion it should be

Lafontaine
Kurri
Federov
Forsberg
Hasek
Jagr
 

Kimi

Registered User
Jun 24, 2004
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Newcastle upon Tyne
If you want to go on stats alone you should look at Tony Hand's stats:
GP 1088
G 1322
A 2115
Pts 3437

Over three points per game.

But he's not the best of players compared to NHL talents like Jagr, Fedorov and the like. I'd vote for Jagr the best none NA player.
 

arnie

Registered User
Dec 20, 2004
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Tuomo#1 said:
Hasek
Kurri
Jagr

Anyone who put Kurri ahead of Jagr just han't been paying attention. Kurri was a great finisher, but his goal scoring total more reflects his good luck at being in the right place at the right time. He is nowhere near the class of a Jagr.
 

loadie

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I think it should be Salming. Not only was he a star player for a long time, he also was a pioneer for European players to start playing in the league. The amount of abuse he took in the first couple of years in the league was incredible.
 

soulok*

Guest
arnie ... to say Kurri is not in the same class as Jagr is ludicrous. Kurri was a better defensive player, had a better shot, and understood the the game at a better level.. jagr was a better stickhandler, much stronger on the puck, and was bigger. Kurri's 5 best years were superior to Jagrs 5 best so that particular point doesnt warrant any credentials. They were both good. very good
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
soulok said:
arnie ... to say Kurri is not in the same class as Jagr is ludicrous. Kurri was a better defensive player, had a better shot, and understood the the game at a better level.. jagr was a better stickhandler, much stronger on the puck, and was bigger. Kurri's 5 best years were superior to Jagrs 5 best so that particular point doesnt warrant any credentials. They were both good. very good


I am a huge Oilers fan and a huge Kurri fan but, I have to take issue with your post. How are Kurri's best 5 years equal to Jagr's? The point totals might be similar but, Jagr was winning scoring titles.

Kurri was great but Jagr took it to another level. They were in the same class but, Jagr was top of the class.
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
Malefic74 said:
I think this is close but I would put Modano at #3. 400 goals, 600 assists and he has had 8 80-point seasons since 92-93. The only other active player to do so? Jaromir Jagr.

His defence and all around play are at least equal to Kurri and Forsberg, but his consistency is what sets him apart.

Modano has never cracked the top 7 in scoring during his career and only once has been a 2nd team all star. He is a very good player but, he has never stepped up and achieved greatness. Consistency is good but, when he is consistently out of the top 7 that is not good enough to put him in the top 5 non-Canadians of all time.
 

soulok*

Guest
its pretty easy to win scoring titles when Gretzky isn't in his mid 20's during your era dont u think? Jagr had the most talent during the mid 90's no doubt. Kurri finished second to Gretzky 3 times during the 80's ? and the the one season had 113 points in 64 games? cmon dude Kurri was great just as great as jagr
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
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Bentley reunion
I would have to say the best non-Canadian ever would be Stan Mikita. He was born in the Czech Republic, after all.

If we're talking not born or (legitimately) trained in Canada, that's a harder question. I say Kurri is the best all-round European-born, European-trained player ever. One of the best one-timers ever, terrific consistency, wonderful hockey sense and one of the best defensive forwards not to win the Selke. I'd say there's a glut of Swedes up there (Mats Naslund, Hakan Loob, Borje Salming, Peter Forsberg, Nik Lidstrom), Jagr, Hasek and Statsny. I could go on about the great Soviets, but Larionov, Fetisov, Tretiak and Kharlamov top my list. As for the Americans, there are two worthy of consideration in the top 10: LaFontaine and Chelios. Leetch would be close, too.

If I had to make a list, it would be:

1. Mikita
2. Hasek
3. Chelios
4. Kurri
5. Jagr
6. Tretiak
7. Stastny
8. Kharlamov
9. LaFontaine
10. Larionov

HM to Forsberg and Lidstrom
 

Hasbro

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Best by country of orgin:

America **** yeah!: Chelios
Russia: Tretiak
Sweden: Forsberg of Salming
Finland: Kurri
Czech Republic: Jagr or Hasek
Slovakia: Stastny (if you don't want to count him as a Slovak then Bondra I guess)
Germany: Krupp or Kolzig if you want to count him (the names of better German players that never came over escape me)
Switzerland: Aebischer, but I'm sure there are some Swiss leaguers who never came over that are arguably better
Latvia: Ozolinsh or Irbe
Poland: Czercawski
Norway: Knutsen
Lithuania: Kasparitus if you're counting him
Kazakstan: Nabakov if you're counting him
 

CoupeStanley

Registered User
Dec 1, 2003
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coupestanley.com
Jagr
Hasek
Lidstrom

I've seen the Kurri over Jagr a couple of time on this board. This is ridiculous. It certainly come from Fins or Oilers fans...

You gotta find a way to squeeze Jagr at some point in the top-15 all-time. Kurri wouldn't crack my top-50.

One has been a complete player, an excellent finisher for the greater passer and player the game ever seen. The other have been one of the most dominant force ever, have won 5 art ross, Mario or NOT.
 

pnep

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
2,907
1,184
Novosibirsk,Russia
my
"NON-CANADIAN ALL-STAR TEAM"

FWs

1- Leclair John -- Forsberg Peter -- Jagr Jaromir

2- Naslund Markus -- Fedorov Sergei -- Kurri Jari

3- Stevens Kevin -- Modano Mike -- Selanne Teemu

4- Tkachuk Keith -- Sundin Mats -- Bure Pavel


DEFs

1- Lidstrom Nicklas -- Chelios Chris

2- Leetch Brian -- Howe Mark

3- Langway Rod -- Salming Borje

4- Housley Phil -- Ozolinsh Sandis

Goalies

1- Hasek Dominik

2- Brimsek Frank

3- Barrasso Tom
 

Kritter471

Registered User
Feb 17, 2005
7,714
0
Dallas
pnep said:
my
"NON-CANADIAN ALL-STAR TEAM"

FWs

1- Leclair John -- Forsberg Peter -- Jagr Jaromir

2- Naslund Markus -- Fedorov Sergei -- Kurri Jari

3- Stevens Kevin -- Modano Mike -- Selanne Teemu

4- Tkachuk Keith -- Sundin Mats -- Bure Pavel


DEFs

1- Lidstrom Nicklas -- Chelios Chris

2- Leetch Brian -- Howe Mark

3- Langway Rod -- Salming Borje

4- Housley Phil -- Ozolinsh Sandis

Goalies

1- Hasek Dominik

2- Brimsek Frank

3- Barrasso Tom

I'd put Tretiak over Hasek any day of the week.

Mikailov, Kharlomov, Larionov, Fetisov and all those 70s-80s Soviet Players deserve heavy consideration as well.
 

arrbez

bad chi
Jun 2, 2004
13,352
261
Toronto
pnep said:
my
"NON-CANADIAN ALL-STAR TEAM"

FWs

1- Leclair John -- Forsberg Peter -- Jagr Jaromir

2- Naslund Markus -- Fedorov Sergei -- Kurri Jari

3- Stevens Kevin -- Modano Mike -- Selanne Teemu

4- Tkachuk Keith -- Sundin Mats -- Bure Pavel


DEFs

1- Lidstrom Nicklas -- Chelios Chris

2- Leetch Brian -- Howe Mark

3- Langway Rod -- Salming Borje

4- Housley Phil -- Ozolinsh Sandis

Goalies

1- Hasek Dominik

2- Brimsek Frank

3- Barrasso Tom

wow, Stastny is getting overlooked I think.
 

Sampe

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
2,648
2
Vantaa
Having only seen the 90's players and the 1972 Summit Series, I would have to say Hasek and Jagr are the best non-Canadians ever. And I'd personally give Hasek a slight edge here.

The *greatest* non-Canadian player of all time would be a lot harder to choose, though. But Hasek would still have a strong case.
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
185,669
37,463
I'm suprised by the lack of love Vyacheslav Fetisov is getting.
 

Chili

En boca cerrada no entran moscas
Jun 10, 2004
8,440
4,269
For those who played in the NHL, my pick would be Jaromir Jagr, slightly over Dominik Hasek. They were both the dominant player of the league at one point but Jagr for a longer period.

For non NHL'ers my pick would be Vladislav Tretiak. One of the few great players to retire still playing at an elite level. A shame he never got a chance to play in the NHL.
 

Norseman

Registered User
May 28, 2002
344
0
Norway
Hasbro said:
Norway: Knutsen

I think Bjørn "Bøtta" Skaare was a much better player, but the NHL and the north american lifestyle didn't suit him very well.

As for the best all-time non-canadian hockey player I'll nominate Jiri Holecek.
 
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