Who's the best all-time non-Canadian hockey player?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by kmad, Jun 13, 2005.

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  1. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    Do we go with a European NHLer (Forsberg, Jagr, Salming, Kurri, Lidstrom, Hasek, Fedorov, Stastny), an American NHLer (Leetch, Modano, LaFontaine) or do we go with someone from behind the iron curtain (Dzurilla, Tretiak, Kharlamov)?

    Comparing the first two to the last one will be a challenge. Personally, I'm torn between three: Jagr, Hasek and Kharlamov. Once again, comparing Hasek to Jagr and Kharlamov is again difficult. It could come down to personal preference.

    The Hockey News' top 100 (only including NHL players) has the top non-Canadian of all time as Jaromir Jagr at #37. Top American player is Chris Chelios at #40. No Russians cracked the list. Kurri was 50th and Hasek was 95th.
     
  2. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Hasek would be the top goalie.

    For skaters, it would play out like this:

    Jagr.
    Lidstrom
    Chelios
    Forsberg
    Kurri
     
  3. Malefic74

    Malefic74 Registered User

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    I think this is close but I would put Modano at #3. 400 goals, 600 assists and he has had 8 80-point seasons since 92-93. The only other active player to do so? Jaromir Jagr.

    His defence and all around play are at least equal to Kurri and Forsberg, but his consistency is what sets him apart.
     
  4. soulok*

    soulok* Guest

    8 80 point seasons are ok .... but in front of kurri and forsberg modano just doesnt cut it. forsbergs points per game is soo much higher and kurri scored over 100 points 6 times! and would have scored 100 points 7 times if he didnt miss 10 games in 82. in my opinion it should be

    Lafontaine
    Kurri
    Federov
    Forsberg
    Hasek
    Jagr
     
  5. Til the End of Time

    Til the End of Time Registered User

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    Forsberg shouldn't be ranked ahead of Jagr and Hasek.
     
  6. Kimi

    Kimi Registered User

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    If you want to go on stats alone you should look at Tony Hand's stats:
    GP 1088
    G 1322
    A 2115
    Pts 3437

    Over three points per game.

    But he's not the best of players compared to NHL talents like Jagr, Fedorov and the like. I'd vote for Jagr the best none NA player.
     
  7. Evil Speaker

    Evil Speaker Registered

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    Hasek
    Kurri
    Jagr
     
  8. arnie

    arnie Registered User

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    Anyone who put Kurri ahead of Jagr just han't been paying attention. Kurri was a great finisher, but his goal scoring total more reflects his good luck at being in the right place at the right time. He is nowhere near the class of a Jagr.
     
  9. loadie

    loadie Official Beer Taster Sponsor

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    I think it should be Salming. Not only was he a star player for a long time, he also was a pioneer for European players to start playing in the league. The amount of abuse he took in the first couple of years in the league was incredible.
     
  10. soulok*

    soulok* Guest

    arnie ... to say Kurri is not in the same class as Jagr is ludicrous. Kurri was a better defensive player, had a better shot, and understood the the game at a better level.. jagr was a better stickhandler, much stronger on the puck, and was bigger. Kurri's 5 best years were superior to Jagrs 5 best so that particular point doesnt warrant any credentials. They were both good. very good
     
  11. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest


    I am a huge Oilers fan and a huge Kurri fan but, I have to take issue with your post. How are Kurri's best 5 years equal to Jagr's? The point totals might be similar but, Jagr was winning scoring titles.

    Kurri was great but Jagr took it to another level. They were in the same class but, Jagr was top of the class.
     
  12. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Modano has never cracked the top 7 in scoring during his career and only once has been a 2nd team all star. He is a very good player but, he has never stepped up and achieved greatness. Consistency is good but, when he is consistently out of the top 7 that is not good enough to put him in the top 5 non-Canadians of all time.
     
  13. soulok*

    soulok* Guest

    its pretty easy to win scoring titles when Gretzky isn't in his mid 20's during your era dont u think? Jagr had the most talent during the mid 90's no doubt. Kurri finished second to Gretzky 3 times during the 80's ? and the the one season had 113 points in 64 games? cmon dude Kurri was great just as great as jagr
     
  14. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    I would have to say the best non-Canadian ever would be Stan Mikita. He was born in the Czech Republic, after all.

    If we're talking not born or (legitimately) trained in Canada, that's a harder question. I say Kurri is the best all-round European-born, European-trained player ever. One of the best one-timers ever, terrific consistency, wonderful hockey sense and one of the best defensive forwards not to win the Selke. I'd say there's a glut of Swedes up there (Mats Naslund, Hakan Loob, Borje Salming, Peter Forsberg, Nik Lidstrom), Jagr, Hasek and Statsny. I could go on about the great Soviets, but Larionov, Fetisov, Tretiak and Kharlamov top my list. As for the Americans, there are two worthy of consideration in the top 10: LaFontaine and Chelios. Leetch would be close, too.

    If I had to make a list, it would be:

    1. Mikita
    2. Hasek
    3. Chelios
    4. Kurri
    5. Jagr
    6. Tretiak
    7. Stastny
    8. Kharlamov
    9. LaFontaine
    10. Larionov

    HM to Forsberg and Lidstrom
     
  15. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

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    Best by country of orgin:

    America **** yeah!: Chelios
    Russia: Tretiak
    Sweden: Forsberg of Salming
    Finland: Kurri
    Czech Republic: Jagr or Hasek
    Slovakia: Stastny (if you don't want to count him as a Slovak then Bondra I guess)
    Germany: Krupp or Kolzig if you want to count him (the names of better German players that never came over escape me)
    Switzerland: Aebischer, but I'm sure there are some Swiss leaguers who never came over that are arguably better
    Latvia: Ozolinsh or Irbe
    Poland: Czercawski
    Norway: Knutsen
    Lithuania: Kasparitus if you're counting him
    Kazakstan: Nabakov if you're counting him
     
  16. CoupeStanley

    CoupeStanley Registered User

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    Jagr
    Hasek
    Lidstrom

    I've seen the Kurri over Jagr a couple of time on this board. This is ridiculous. It certainly come from Fins or Oilers fans...

    You gotta find a way to squeeze Jagr at some point in the top-15 all-time. Kurri wouldn't crack my top-50.

    One has been a complete player, an excellent finisher for the greater passer and player the game ever seen. The other have been one of the most dominant force ever, have won 5 art ross, Mario or NOT.
     
  17. pnep

    pnep Registered User

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    my
    "NON-CANADIAN ALL-STAR TEAM"

    FWs

    1- Leclair John -- Forsberg Peter -- Jagr Jaromir

    2- Naslund Markus -- Fedorov Sergei -- Kurri Jari

    3- Stevens Kevin -- Modano Mike -- Selanne Teemu

    4- Tkachuk Keith -- Sundin Mats -- Bure Pavel


    DEFs

    1- Lidstrom Nicklas -- Chelios Chris

    2- Leetch Brian -- Howe Mark

    3- Langway Rod -- Salming Borje

    4- Housley Phil -- Ozolinsh Sandis

    Goalies

    1- Hasek Dominik

    2- Brimsek Frank

    3- Barrasso Tom
     
  18. Kritter471

    Kritter471 Registered User

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    I'd put Tretiak over Hasek any day of the week.

    Mikailov, Kharlomov, Larionov, Fetisov and all those 70s-80s Soviet Players deserve heavy consideration as well.
     
  19. Habsfan 32

    Habsfan 32 Registered User

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    I'd say Jagr followed by Hasek.
     
  20. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    wow, Stastny is getting overlooked I think.
     
  21. Sampe

    Sampe Registered User

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    Having only seen the 90's players and the 1972 Summit Series, I would have to say Hasek and Jagr are the best non-Canadians ever. And I'd personally give Hasek a slight edge here.

    The *greatest* non-Canadian player of all time would be a lot harder to choose, though. But Hasek would still have a strong case.
     
  22. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Top 5 non Canadians in no particular order

    Hasek
    Jagr
    Stastny
    Fetisov
    Makarov

    Next 4 would be

    Kurri
    Chelios
    Leetch
    Lidstrom
     
  23. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    I'm suprised by the lack of love Vyacheslav Fetisov is getting.
     
  24. Chili

    Chili Registered User

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    For those who played in the NHL, my pick would be Jaromir Jagr, slightly over Dominik Hasek. They were both the dominant player of the league at one point but Jagr for a longer period.

    For non NHL'ers my pick would be Vladislav Tretiak. One of the few great players to retire still playing at an elite level. A shame he never got a chance to play in the NHL.
     
  25. Norseman

    Norseman Registered User

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    I think Bjørn "Bøtta" Skaare was a much better player, but the NHL and the north american lifestyle didn't suit him very well.

    As for the best all-time non-canadian hockey player I'll nominate Jiri Holecek.
     
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