Who's responsible for high prices? Fans

unstuck

Registered User
Dec 23, 2010
2,700
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Toronto
This isn't really a hockey article.

I can get tickets in....

Atlanta for $14.25
Miami for $13.75
Nashville for $19
Dallas for $17.17
St. Louis for $10
San Jose for $23
New Jersey for $10
Los Angeles for $15


aaaaaaaaaaand to put that in perspective, you can't even get good tickets to our AHL team for those prices....

Although I think it's interesting to compare Toronto to Montreal, being that they are the two largest Canadian cities, both with rabid fan bases, but Toronto prices are much higher and harder to come by.

It's the way MLSE has gone about their marketing -- it's aimed comlpetely at corporations and advertisers, coddling the business and marketing community in Toronto and completely sticking it to the fans. The ACC is all ads and boxes; it's not for the fans any more, not like the Bell centre is still. Tickets in Montreal might be expensive, but at least it's still for the fans and you don't see rows and rows of empty seats in Montreal the way you do at every Toronto home game. This is aggravating as )(#*$@() to me. I wish to God we had the atmosphere that Montreal has at our games, but the games aren't for us anymore. They are for Bay street.
 

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Eudora Wannabe
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Jun 18, 2005
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aaaaaaaaaaand to put that in perspective, you can't even get good tickets to our AHL team for those prices....

Although I think it's interesting to compare Toronto to Montreal, being that they are the two largest Canadian cities, both with rabid fan bases, but Toronto prices are much higher and harder to come by.

It's the way MLSE has gone about their marketing -- it's aimed comlpetely at corporations and advertisers, coddling the business and marketing community in Toronto and completely sticking it to the fans. The ACC is all ads and boxes; it's not for the fans any more, not like the Bell centre is still. Tickets in Montreal might be expensive, but at least it's still for the fans and you don't see rows and rows of empty seats in Montreal the way you do at every Toronto home game. This is aggravating as )(#*$@() to me. I wish to God we had the atmosphere that Montreal has at our games, but the games aren't for us anymore. They are for Bay street.

That's the trade off. Every game in Toronto is sold out whether people are there or not. When businesses will pay top dollar for the tickets, the other fans are out of luck. In Nashville it's just the opposite. Regular fans have become the hardcore attendees, but businesses aren't as likely to pony up the big bucks for 41 games that occur on odd weekdays with 5 games every other night followed by nothing for 2 weeks. It's not like they can really plan on games for client schmoozing with the schedule like it is. So more tickets are available for fans but the Tuesday night games in January and February are less likely to sell out. May be bad for attendance levels, but on the bright side it means that means the team has to continually court us.
 

unstuck

Registered User
Dec 23, 2010
2,700
0
Toronto
That's the trade off. Every game in Toronto is sold out whether people are there or not. When businesses will pay top dollar for the tickets, the other fans are out of luck. In Nashville it's just the opposite. Regular fans have become the hardcore attendees, but businesses aren't as likely to pony up the big bucks for 41 games that occur on odd weekdays with 5 games every other night followed by nothing for 2 weeks. It's not like they can really plan on games for client schmoozing with the schedule like it is. So more tickets are available for fans but the Tuesday night games in January and February are less likely to sell out. May be bad for attendance levels, but on the bright side it means that means the team has to continually court us.

Envy! Although this is why I sympathize with Atlanta's current plight (as posted in the "thrashers bombshell" thread). Even though our situations are so opposite, the one thing we have in common is pretty much being reamed by the team's owners. :shakehead
 
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captainpaxil

Registered User
Dec 2, 2008
4,645
1,194
This isn't really a hockey article.

I can get tickets in....

Atlanta for $14.25
Miami for $13.75
Nashville for $19
Dallas for $17.17
St. Louis for $10
San Jose for $23
New Jersey for $10
Los Angeles for $15



Either way....this might be an NFL problem, or a problem in some select NHL markets....but clearly this isn't a league-wide problem in the NHL.

i cant get parking at a flyers game that cheap:shakehead. i think youve just made a rock solid case against revenue sharing. theres at least 8 teams fans who arent carrying the load. how can a franchise create any sense of fetish of commodity with tickets that cheap?

It's the way MLSE has gone about their marketing -- it's aimed comlpetely at corporations and advertisers, coddling the business and marketing community in Toronto and completely sticking it to the fans. The ACC is all ads and boxes; it's not for the fans any more, not like the Bell centre is still. Tickets in Montreal might be expensive, but at least it's still for the fans and you don't see rows and rows of empty seats in Montreal the way you do at every Toronto home game. This is aggravating as )(#*$@() to me. I wish to God we had the atmosphere that Montreal has at our games, but the games aren't for us anymore. They are for Bay street.

pre lockout philly had the same problem, all the suits came in and shushed all the fans. with the lockout year alot of the season tickets held by businesses became open and more fans got into the building and the atmosphere improved. while its still not the old spectrum its alot better and the blend of people makes it a friendlier environment towards visitors and families.
 

Adz

Eudora Wannabe
Sponsor
Jun 18, 2005
7,515
3,097
Hermitage TN
i cant get parking at a flyers game that cheap:shakehead. i think youve just made a rock solid case against revenue sharing. theres at least 8 teams fans who arent carrying the load. how can a franchise create any sense of fetish of commodity with tickets that cheap?

.

Well, to be fair, most of us don't pay those prices. The $19 tickets represent a couple of rows of Full Season Ticket seats at the very top of the shoot once end. At any point sure, the general public might get a deal on a seat because a business sponsored some sort of discount but most people don't decide to go to a game and only pay $19 per seat. Those same tickets bought singly at the box office will be closer to $30 each when fees are tacked on. Still a good deal, but you're not going to be sitting on the glass.
 

Jeffrey93

Registered User
Nov 7, 2007
4,335
46
aaaaaaaaaaand to put that in perspective, you can't even get good tickets to our AHL team for those prices....

Although I think it's interesting to compare Toronto to Montreal, being that they are the two largest Canadian cities, both with rabid fan bases, but Toronto prices are much higher and harder to come by.

It's the way MLSE has gone about their marketing -- it's aimed comlpetely at corporations and advertisers, coddling the business and marketing community in Toronto and completely sticking it to the fans. The ACC is all ads and boxes; it's not for the fans any more, not like the Bell centre is still. Tickets in Montreal might be expensive, but at least it's still for the fans and you don't see rows and rows of empty seats in Montreal the way you do at every Toronto home game. This is aggravating as )(#*$@() to me. I wish to God we had the atmosphere that Montreal has at our games, but the games aren't for us anymore. They are for Bay street.

Air Canada Centre Capacity - 18,800
Bell Centre Capacity - 21,273

That extra capacity helps the issue/problem. The Leafs could have built a 30,000 seat arena and sold it out every game...they chose to stay with the status quo in terms of NHL venue capacities. That drives up prices and increases the percentage sold to corporate entities.

So....things are a tad skewed when comparing these two teams. I get your point though....and really, the Habs would love to be in the situation the Leafs are....if they could be they would be. Don't kid yourself and think otherwise.
 

Jeffrey93

Registered User
Nov 7, 2007
4,335
46
Yes. Canada has 413 reps in the upper and lower houses, while the US has 535 reps for ten times as many people. Plus, almost all nations over 100m have to maintain some kind of "imperialistic" resources to keep more people with wealth and power.
Which country has a bigger land mass? That plays a bit of a role....population is one thing...having that population so spread out, well...it makes things sorta tricky.
It also doesn't help that the US has 11m undocumented immigrants and millions of urban poor trapped in ghettos exploited but not meaningfully helped by liberals and conservatives each election.
The fact the US has 11,000,000 undocumented "guests" isn't my concern.....and it shouldn't be the concern of government either. Since the government isn't representing those people. Weird how they keep getting in though.....I guess "illegals" are better than "tax payers" somehow...
Pretty much every country with over 100m in the world right now is an utter mess, so don't think the US is really doing something unusually corrupt. They could be Brazil and go around shooting homeless kids in the streets to help win tourist bucks.
You really believe every country in the world with a population of over 100M is in an "utter mess"??? Really??
 

njdevils1982

Hell Toupée!!!
Sep 8, 2006
37,790
24,431
North of Toronto
Capitalism is a wonderful thing. Where it breaks down is when people choose to spend their money for unacceptable products. The Canucks deserve to sell out at strong prices, so do the Red Wings, Flyers, Pens etc.

The people who continue to support the garbage operations around the league actually enable the poor operations. I'll never understand the people who believe every game should sell out at premium prices regardless of quality. They only hurt themselves.



it took only until post 6 for me to respond. the pens "deserve to sell out at strong prices" i guess the reason they almost croaked pre lottery was due to people not showing up for an unacceptable thing.

now it a cat's meow.

blech.


the leafs are yearly fodder for the people. they eat it up and price reflect it. (or wait!..... no, its the big$ that buy the seats.)
 
Last edited:
Nov 13, 2006
11,520
1,398
Ohio
i cant get parking at a flyers game that cheap:shakehead. i think youve just made a rock solid case against revenue sharing. theres at least 8 teams fans who arent carrying the load. how can a franchise create any sense of fetish of commodity with tickets that cheap?



pre lockout philly had the same problem, all the suits came in and shushed all the fans. with the lockout year alot of the season tickets held by businesses became open and more fans got into the building and the atmosphere improved. while its still not the old spectrum its alot better and the blend of people makes it a friendlier environment towards visitors and families.

It's not a contest.

I also go to Flyers games and pay $100-130 per ticket. I am also a Columbus season ticketholder and pay $85 per game. The prices are set by the market. The market is determined by the perceived value of the product. In Toronto, businesses perceive a great deal of value in the platinum seats and the luxury suites. They find they are great for building valuable relationships, celebrating successful opportunities etc. The same thing happens on South Broad St. in Philly. If we weren't willing to pay that price, they couldn't charge it.

I went to see Ohio State play Notre Dame today and paid $15 per ticket for prime seats in a great arena. On-site parking was FREE! While the hockey is not NHL hockey, it's still enjoyable hockey. I've gone to AHL games and really enjoy them as well. If I had an AHL team in my city, I might stop attending NHL games, due to the poor value. Frankly, to me it ain't worth $85-$130 per ticket that I pay.
 

unstuck

Registered User
Dec 23, 2010
2,700
0
Toronto
Air Canada Centre Capacity - 18,800
Bell Centre Capacity - 21,273

That extra capacity helps the issue/problem. The Leafs could have built a 30,000 seat arena and sold it out every game...they chose to stay with the status quo in terms of NHL venue capacities. That drives up prices and increases the percentage sold to corporate entities.

So....things are a tad skewed when comparing these two teams. I get your point though....and really, the Habs would love to be in the situation the Leafs are....if they could be they would be. Don't kid yourself and think otherwise.

Men so that's less than a 2% difference, I don't think it makes a huge difference, but noted. I hope for Habs' fans sake that it doesn't happen there, but I wonder why exactly it hasn't. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that the ACC is near Canada's main financial district, therefore the ties to the business community

Btw, One of the biggest and least-talked about threats to the NHL-- mark my words and you heard it here first and I will swear up and down to this -- is that hockey is dying in Toronto. No one believes me, and it'll take a while to play out, but you'll see, Toronto won't always be around to bail out the NHL. Younger Torontonians are more savvy and have more sports choices and are more multicultural than ever and virtually none of my friends under 30 are hockey fans. In 10-20 years people will talk nostalgically about the days that the Leafs sold out every game... Mark my words!!

/end rant

:D
 
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Jeffrey93

Registered User
Nov 7, 2007
4,335
46
Men so that's less than a 2% difference, I don't think it makes a huge difference, but noted. I hope for Habs' fans sake that it doesn't happen there, but I wonder why exactly it hasn't. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that the ACC is near Canada's main financial district, therefore the ties to the business community
That is the huge part of it....Toronto has a WAY bigger corporate population than any other city in Canada.
Btw, One of the biggest and least-talked about threats to the NHL-- mark my words and you heard it here first and I will swear up and down to this -- is that hockey is dying in Toronto. No one believes me, and it'll take a while to play out, but you'll see, Toronto won't always be around to bail out the NHL. Younger Torontonians are more savvy and have more sports choices and are more multicultural than ever and virtually none of my friends under 30 are hockey fans. In 10-20 years people will talk nostalgically about the days that the Leafs sold out every game... Mark my words!!
/end rant
:D
Toronto is a Maple Leaf market....it was obvious when the ACC was half-empty for the CHL's Top Prospect Game......Toronto doesn't care about anything that isn't the Maple Leafs.
It is similar in nearby Hamilton (only bringing up due to geographical proximity)....they have had bouts with Junior A and AHL teams....and it has been made VERY clear that they want the NHL and won't get behind anything else (having an affiliate of a hated franchise doesn't help).

Anyway....bottom line.....Toronto isn't the centre of the hockey universe. The Maple Leafs are. Yes....the Maple Leafs are the centre of the hockey universe.....for now. MLSE will put together a decent enough team to keep corporate sales up and keep the others interested....don't worry. But, it isn't a huge hockey town....it is a Leaf town. Because of that....I have to give credit to MLSE for building that.

You can't really blame them for finding people that will pay more....and then charging them more....can you?
 

njdevils1982

Hell Toupée!!!
Sep 8, 2006
37,790
24,431
North of Toronto
Air Canada Centre Capacity - 18,800
Bell Centre Capacity - 21,273

That extra capacity helps the issue/problem. The Leafs could have built a 30,000 seat arena and sold it out every game...they chose to stay with the status quo in terms of NHL venue capacities. That drives up prices and increases the percentage sold to corporate entities.

So....things are a tad skewed when comparing these two teams. I get your point though....and really, the Habs would love to be in the situation the Leafs are....if they could be they would be. Don't kid yourself and think otherwise.

ive been to centre bell.....its built high and over the ice. (4 levels?) i always thought it was due the fact it was built within an existing street block therefore the skyscraper idea........stilll, 21000. thats big for an arena..........but i guess not for montreal.

problem watching a game there is not the price (a 65 for upper) .....its the death climb and back down from it at the end. and the concourse is a pure disaster.

the price you pay is to stay in your seat and not get up. (not appealing......i like to have some room to roam in intermissions and to go to concessions.)


vive le night life though.......it brings people to the city, right? (im calling on the hartford whalers booster club........yeah, youve done it.......i met you in the hotel lobby. you rocked.)


good times.

http://www.whalerwatch.com/montreal_2.htm nice. they travel again. :)
 
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Jeffrey93

Registered User
Nov 7, 2007
4,335
46
ive been to centre bell.....its built high and over the ice. (4 levels?) i always thought it was due the fact it was built within an existing street block therefore the skyscraper idea........stilll, 21000. thats big for an arena..........but i guess not in monreal.

I've been there too......in the seats....luxury suites....written press area...........

the place is just huge. huge!

It's so awesome to see a game there......in awe of how big the building is but also in awe about how many people they pack in there. It still feels, to me anyway, tight. Great atmosphere for a game.

I was actually surprised when they built it that there wasn't a Metro station built inside of it (at least there wasn't when I was there). The station was close.....but a building of that size...I just though it would have been part of it.

Great building though......really great.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
24,826
1,343
Very well written article.... it's truly amazing how many people fail to grasp the simple concept of economics. Prices for anything wouldn't be high if people weren't willing to pay for it.
 

unstuck

Registered User
Dec 23, 2010
2,700
0
Toronto
That is the huge part of it....Toronto has a WAY bigger corporate population than any other city in Canada.

Toronto is a Maple Leaf market....it was obvious when the ACC was half-empty for the CHL's Top Prospect Game......Toronto doesn't care about anything that isn't the Maple Leafs.
It is similar in nearby Hamilton (only bringing up due to geographical proximity)....they have had bouts with Junior A and AHL teams....and it has been made VERY clear that they want the NHL and won't get behind anything else (having an affiliate of a hated franchise doesn't help).

Anyway....bottom line.....Toronto isn't the centre of the hockey universe. The Maple Leafs are. Yes....the Maple Leafs are the centre of the hockey universe.....for now. MLSE will put together a decent enough team to keep corporate sales up and keep the others interested....don't worry. But, it isn't a huge hockey town....it is a Leaf town. Because of that....I have to give credit to MLSE for building that.

You can't really blame them for finding people that will pay more....and then charging them more....can you?

No I can't and you make interesting points, and I'm not sure where you live, but it's actually motivated me to a start a thread over on our board, because what I mean is not that Torontonians aren't interested in the Leafs -- is that they are increasingly interested in our other, newer pro sports franchises like the Raptors, Jays and TFC (and today talk of an NFL franchise? :badidea:)

But younger people in Toronto are less into the Leafs than ever -- the city is hugely expanding and very multicultural, and in 20 years, when people who grew up with the Raptors are running those businesses, I think the Leafs will cease to be the centre of Toronto sports and MLSE (and the NHL!) will be in for a rude awakening
 

htpwn

Registered User
Nov 4, 2009
20,530
2,607
Toronto
Here's the top end prices for Toronto this season:

Leaftickets.jpg
 

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