Whos 1-10?

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Enoch

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Jul 2, 2003
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thome_26 said:
haha, dominated. First goalie in ages to "dominate" with a sub .900save%. In his final month his GAA was something like four and half on an average of like 32 shots. Now, he played better then his numbers indicate, he was after all behind a REAL bad defense. Lehtonen wasn't playing behind much either though. Not to the same extent, but the numbers difference is absolutely drastic. And a simple fact is, his numbers and play has taken an absolute nose dive every time importance of games escalate. He's taken steps back in the two finals he's started in for Canada, and he has yet to put forth a decent showing in any playoffs except for in 02 where he was solid.

There's a reason Lehtonen is higher nor 95% of peoples lists.


Atlanta's defense in comparison to Pittsburghs defense at the start of the season is extremely unfair. The Pens may not have been an AHL team last year, like some claimed, but at the same time, at the start of the season their defense was downright pathetic. I do not know how many times I saw point blank shots against the Pen goaltenders. We are talking 9 - 10 point blank, almost never miss shots from the crease area. It was pathetic. Obviously the team got better as the year wore on, and the addition of Strbak and Jackman significantly increased the quality of the Pens blueline and the teams overall play. However, Fleury was long gone by then....The shots he had to face on a night in/night out basis were ridiculous.........Initially, he was extraordinary, but eventually he just couldn't take the barrage. No one could, and I stand by that. Not a goalie in this league could have faced what the Pens goalies did early on and came out looking good.
 

Lionel Hutz

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A few people have put Zherdev ahead of Malkin, I assume the reason is b/c of what Zherdev has done in the NHL. Yet they put Ovechkin first w/o a second thought. Anyone else see this as highly debatable?

I was firmly of the opinion that Malkin's upside > Zherdev's upside, and many people are have been saying Malkin's upside is close to Ovechkin's. So how can Ovechkin be a runnaway 1st while Malkin falls below Zherdev if the same logic is applied?
 

Lionel Hutz

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Enoch said:
Atlanta's defense in comparison to Pittsburghs defense at the start of the season is extremely unfair. The Pens may not have been an AHL team last year, like some claimed, but at the same time, at the start of the season their defense was downright pathetic. I do not know how many times I saw point blank shots against the Pen goaltenders. We are talking 9 - 10 point blank, almost never miss shots from the crease area. It was pathetic. Obviously the team got better as the year wore on, and the addition of Strbak and Jackman significantly increased the quality of the Pens blueline and the teams overall play. However, Fleury was long gone by then....The shots he had to face on a night in/night out basis were ridiculous.........Initially, he was extraordinary, but eventually he just couldn't take the barrage. No one could, and I stand by that. Not a goalie in this league could have faced what the Pens goalies did early on and came out looking good.

The important point that you made is that it was not only the quantity of shots, it was the quality of the shots he faced due to obscene defensive breakdowns.
 

McThome

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look, people are taking me wrong on Fleury still. I've already said that he's a good prospect and a no brainer top ten guy. I was simply pointing out his flaws (consistently playing disapointing hockey when it matters most) in the debate between him and Lehtonen. Oh, and MAFs team wasn't out played in the playoffs last year from everything I read. They were out shooting the other team by a fair margin every game, and Deslauriers was simply standing on his head and Fleury wasn't.
 

tripledekehockey

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thome_26 said:
look, people are taking me wrong on Fleury still. I've already said that he's a good prospect and a no brainer top ten guy. I was simply pointing out his flaws (consistently playing disapointing hockey when it matters most) in the debate between him and Lehtonen. Oh, and MAFs team wasn't out played in the playoffs last year from everything I read. They were out shooting the other team by a fair margin every game, and Deslauriers was simply standing on his head and Fleury wasn't.

remember though, we are talking about kids here -- at their ages, they will have flaws that will need to be worked out. 5-10 years down the road, would be a good comparison between the two especially if they starting meeting in the playoffs
 

mazmin

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May 15, 2004
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andora said:
i really really like your list, except for the vanek in the 9 spot. i believe that will be kesler

Personally I think Kesler should have been top 50...but he isn't...and don't expect him to bump "the all mighty Austrian" Vanek.
 

Patty Ice

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Feb 27, 2002
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hattrickshockey2 said:
At best, he'll be a similar player offensively to Hossa but better all around. That's why he still deserves to be in the HF's top 10 list.

Lets not forget that Hossa had the same problem when he began his NHL career. He's a pretty good player I'd say. trick hit it pretty much on the mark, Michalek is a prospect who could handle missing a year of hockey with minimal damage to his development because his head and game are so mature. Definitely a top 10 candidate, but understandable if he falls somewhat this year (I'm actually surprised he's still in the top 10 after a new class and players getting more exposure, I thought he'd might fall...kudos to the staff).
 

HOCKEY_GURU

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Robertsson 4-ever said:
Strange Niklas Kronwall dropped off the whole list. :dunno:

I was thinking the same thing.....personally I would Take Kronwall ( he hasnt played more than 65 games in NHL thus should be a considered for this list) ahead of Vanek at this stage, and i know many will find this contraversial, but heres my reasoning:

When Kronwall was drafted , based on skill level he would have easily been top 10 , but there weer issues about his size and weather he can withstand the rigors of the NHL, well for starters after Kronwall was drafted he grew to 6 feet..which wasnt expected, he also played in the NHL last year and showed that his size wont be an issue..... so back to the skill level....some people call him Lidstrom JR, i dont think he will put up Lidstrom type numbers.. but i think has the potential to be up there... so far this year he's averaging a point per game in the AHL... quite impressive for a D-man....is there any doubt left he will be a decent Offensive D-man in the NHL? I would say no.. just a matter of how good....as for Vanek hes also has a tremendous high ceiling offensively..and theres a lot to like about him, but my understanding is that hes a boom or bust type of player the reason being is he tends to be a perimiter type, so far his numbers in the AHL has nothing to write home about...and I realise thats not a lot of games to go by....non the less it does shows that it take s sometime to adapt to a higher more physical level... just look at yanick Lehoux who had tremendous talent and dindt do much in the AHL...but now that hes applying himself better and playing with more heart.. how much better he is..point being talent alone doesent get you there....one needs to learn to play with heart and handle the physical aspect...and to me thats still a bit of a question mark with Vanek (and dont get me wrong..im not betting against him...i just think kronwall has passed that hurdle).
 

Rowsdower

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1. Alexander Ovechkin
2. Kari Lehtonen
3. Evgeny Malkin
4. Marc-Andre Fleury
5. Nikolai Zherdev
6. Nathan Horton
7. Dion Phanuef
8. Milan Michalek
9. Ryan Suter
10. Thomas Vanek
 

SwOOsh*

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clefty said:
Please do not generalise about Penguin fans like you always do.

Really? Who else has Fleury higher, so far its 100% for Lehtonen, and according to the other Pens fan it's suppose to be 50/50
 

Lionel Hutz

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SwOOsh said:
Really? Who else has Fleury higher, so far its 100% for Lehtonen, and according to the other Pens fan it's suppose to be 50/50

That's right, the 10 people (give or take) who have submitted lists here have Kari higher. Irrefutable proof.

I rest my case.
 

andora

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mazmin said:
Personally I think Kesler should have been top 50...but he isn't...and don't expect him to bump "the all mighty Austrian" Vanek.

i was just kidding around.. great list though nonetheless :)
 

SwOOsh*

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Lionel Hutz said:
That's right, the 10 people (give or take) who have submitted lists here have Kari higher. Irrefutable proof.

I rest my case.

Please show me anywhere that 50% of people have Fleury rated over Lehtonen, I'm waiting. Everywhere that I look has Lehtonen ahead of Fleury THN, HF, etc. etc. Also the official Pens board doesn't count either :joker:
 

rebedom

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Could there be 10 goalies in the top 50? Doesn't that seem like a lot of goalies for the best 50 prospects? There is at least 10 defencemen as well, which only leaves 30 spots for forwards. Maybe that's just the way it is right now, there also seems to be quite a few defencemen.

It will be interesting to see how close the final 20 are in relationship to an actual team of 2 goalies, 6 defencemen and 12 forwards.
 
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#66

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SwOOsh said:
Really? Who else has Fleury higher, so far its 100% for Lehtonen, and according to the other Pens fan it's suppose to be 50/50
I think that he's saying that you're saying that all Pens fans have MAF ahead of Lehtonen while thats just not true. This is my list:
1. Alexander Ovechkin
2. Kari Lehtonen- More of a polished prospect than MAF.
3. Marc-Andre Fleury- More skill than Lehtonen but must still learn the position.
4. Evgeny Malkin
5. Nikolai Zherdev
6. Nathan Horton
7. Dion Phanuef
8. Thomas Vanek
9. Ryan Suter
10. Milan Michalek
 

craig1

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tulsytrid1 said:
01. Alexander Ovechkin
02. Kari Lehtonen
03. Evgeny Malkin
04. Marc-André Fleury
05. Nikolai Zherdev
06. Nathan Horton
07. Dion Phanuef
08. Ryan Suter
09. Thomas Vanek
10. Milan Michálek
This is the closest to my viewpoint as I've seen.......IMO, the only debatable, is Vanek/Suter. IT would depend on the mood I'm i on that day on who I would put at 8.
 
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