who would you want to see phoenix pursue via trade

[rt]

Don't disagree. Just figure that also solves the enforcer issue with more value added. The value of remaining pieces could be figured from there...

Abdelkader is a terrible fighter.

 

[cobra427]

Briere out with a concussion.

I sort of thought DM was back east specifically to chat with Briere to try to get him to wave his NMC. We take Briere off their hands plus Couturier around a deal for Yandle. Not with a concussion though...

 

[Kaibur]

Douglas Murray returned a 2nd in '13 and a conditional 2nd in '14 from the Pens. That should set the market price for Rusty Klesla - only difference being Klesla has another year and is slightly more expensive.

 

[Sinurgy]

Can someone explain the love affair around here with Couturier? He's got 7 points in 29 games and is a -11.

 

[CC96]

Can someone explain the love affair around here with Couturier? He's got 7 points in 29 games and is a -11.

Couturier is a big center who is only 20 years old, and drafted quite recently in 2011. He has a large offensive upside in addition to the fact that he already possesses a high level of defensive responsibilty, which Couturier showed in the playoffs last year when he was successful in shutting down Evgeni Malkin during the Pens-Flyers series in what was only his rookie season.

Most forwards Couturier's age are still playing in the minors so he still has plenty of time to break out offensively. In fact Couturier is so young that Brandon Gormley is almost a full year older than him. Another interesting fact about Couturier that is kind of pointless, is that he was actually born in Phoenix, so I guess technically you could say he would be a hometown hero for the Coyotes.

 

[rt]

Can someone explain the love affair around here with Couturier? He's got 7 points in 29 games and is a -11.

He's a six foot four inch center that played the role of shut-down center on a contending team as an eighteen year old rookie, going up against the likes of Backstrom, Malkin, Tavares, Spezza, etc., and managed to drop in nearly thirty points, anyhow. He came up clutch in the playoffs both offensively and defensively and was only nineteen years old at the time. Not only that, but he put up nearly two points a game in the Q in his draft year, so obviously the offensive upside is there. If you look at adjusted points per game in draft years for CHL players (adjusted by goals per game per league, per year) his offensive numbers are simply eye popping. The names around him on that list are almost to a man extremely effective NHL points producers.

He's most definitely hitting a sophomore slump and is definitely not playing great on a bad team that's been a bit of a train-wreck this season. Still, he was only drafted the summer before last. The same as Connor freaking Murphy who we consider a baby and a long-term project, who is years away from sniffing an NHL squad. Couturier is already accomplished and has all the time in the world to realize his amazing potential.

 

[Sciamachy]

I know his name had been tossed out once before not long ago, but apparently LeBrun was on TSN radio today and said to keep an eye on Mike Smith at the deadline. Don't suppose anyone was listening that can confirm this?

 

[Howler Scores]

I know his name had been tossed out once before not long ago, but apparently LeBrun was on TSN radio today and said to keep an eye on Mike Smith at the deadline. Don't suppose anyone was listening that can confirm this?

Scouts have been at his games. Eventually, the young kiddos will need to play.

 

[XX]

Can someone explain the love affair around here with Couturier? He's got 7 points in 29 games and is a -11.

Basically Hanzal part two, to put it the simplest way. A 1-2 punch of those two would be ideal for a team that relies on defense and the counterattack.

 

[rt]

Basically Hanzal part two, to put it the simplest way. A 1-2 punch of those two would be ideal for a team that relies on defense and the counterattack.

I'd say Hanzal is a realistic downside for Couturier. He's got the upside to be twice the offensive player. My guess is he'll be fairly significantly more effective offensively, and nearly but not quite as effective defensively and physically.

 

[CC96]

I can't see Maloney moving Smith unless his salary demands are totally outrageous. There doesn't seem to be a better free agent goalie that would work in our system as well as Smith does for around $4 million (which I am assuming would be his actual value unless some desperate G.M. like Feaster overpays to acquire Smith to try and save his job). Unless Maloney plans on tanking this season, trading Smith is not an option, since there is zero chance we could make Lol the starter and still remain competitive in any way.

 

[Sinurgy]

So it sounds like many of you are putting a lot of stock in him being able to step in and be reasonably effective at such an early age.

 

[rt]

So it sounds like many of you are putting a lot of stock in him being able to step in and be reasonably effective at such an early age.

Of course. Why wouldn't you?

 

[XX]

So it sounds like many of you are putting a lot of stock in him being able to step in and be reasonably effective at such an early age.

He is already doing it. Just as Hanzal stepped right in and took care of defensive business, Couturier does that for the Flyers. He has much higher offensive potential than Hanzal if you consider the pedigree. Even if he never turns into a PPG player, he is still tremendously valuable to a team out west.

 

[Sinurgy]

Of course. Why wouldn't you?

I guess I'm just not convinced of the defensive prowess. So many talk about him shutting down Malkin in the playoffs yet Malkin had 8 points in 6 games. Now this season he's a -11 and he also only has 7 points on the season. I guess I'm just skeptical of trading for potential unless that potential is really high AND very likely to be realized. To be clear I take that stance in this case because the only name I ever hear is Yandle who is already a known high quality asset.

There is a reason the saying isn't "One in the hand is worth one in the bush".

 

[YotesFan47]

Hey just out of curiosity, what do you guys think we could fetch (or like to fetch) for Torres, Moss, Klesla, and Sullivan? We are 3 points out of the playoff with 10 days left until the deadline. Obviously DM has to look at the possibility of being a seller, especially considering Smith (hasn't really played well anyway) and Vrbata are out. Plus I think those 4 would realistically be available. Some others may be as well but I'm just curious to see what other fans think.

 

[rt]

I guess I'm just not convinced of the defensive prowess. So many talk about him shutting down Malkin in the playoffs yet Malkin had 8 points in 6 games. Now this season he's a -11 and he also only has 7 points on the season. I guess I'm just skeptical of trading for potential unless that potential is really high AND very likely to be realized. To be clear I take that stance in this case because the only name I ever hear is Yandle who is already a known high quality asset.

There is a reason the saying isn't "One in the hand is worth one in the bush".

He's excellent defensively, especially given his age.

For the sake of a comparison of time lines:

In Hanzal's draft year he was poor defensively and was playing over in Europe and put up three points in fifteen games in the second tier of the Czech league. Couturier was in the QMJHL in his draft year, putting up two points a game and excelling defensively. The year after Hanzal's draft year, he was playing in the USHL and was a one point per game player while slowly learning to round out his game. At the same point in his career, Couturier was already excelling in the NHL. In the second year after his draft, Hanzal was in the WHL, learning to play D under Sutter and putting up a point and a half a game. Couturier is in his 2nd NHL season, at that point. The third year after his draft, Hanzal plays his rookie season in the NHL. He puts up 37 points, which is still a career high a full five years later. Can Couturier top that next season? In the five seasons that follow next season? I imagine so, but I could most definitely be wrong. As you said, he's a bird in the bush.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Abdelkader is a terrible fighter.

Wow. For some reason, I thought he averaged about 10 scraps per year. Always thought he was in the middle of a lot of shoving matches, didn't realize that he doesn't drop that often. Like his physical play, but thought he did more to be the proverbial pest

Scratch that thought...

 

[rt]

There's not a lot of wiggle room there, though. At least not under current conditions. Conditions that might not exist in a few months time. For all we know, this team could hit the draft and FA with a new coach, new GM and a new city. I don't really see status quo as appealing. I have zero desire to see this team limp into next year sans Maloney and Tippett. I imagine the ticket base would feel the same way.

There isn't a lot of wiggle room, but I'd argue there's as much as there has been since Moyes took this thing to BK. I'm okay with status quo at the trade deadline because I don't really see that impacting us limping into next season sans Maloney and Tippett or galloping into it with both and a new set of on ice reinforcements. The trade deadline doesn't seem a critical factor in that to me. I'd say we can just as easily give the playoffs one last try (without sacrificing valuable assets at the deadline) and if we fail, we can make adjustments after the season. I don't think those adjustments really need to be made now. If Maloney and Tippett walk, we are going to be in a world of hurt, but maybe we promote Treliving and offer Ulf Samuelsson the HC gig (he's a bit of a Tippett clone). Maybe that works okay. Then we can make decisions on Yandle and Smith once we have a clearer picture of budgetary issues (demands of players we want to retain, what the budget will be, what's available at what cost, etc.).

 

[XX]

Wow. For some reason, I thought he averaged about 10 scraps per year. Always thought he was in the middle of a lot of shoving matches, didn't realize that he doesn't drop that often. Like his physical play, but thought he did more to be the proverbial pest

Scratch that thought...

The Red Wings don't really encourage fighting. Historically, they are one of the teams that fights the least, year in and year out. Abdelkader is a great checking guy, but you're in trouble if he is the key piece in a Yandle trade.

 

[XX]

Couturier and the Flyers #1 (top 6 pick) for Yandle and the 'Yotes #1 (top 10 pick) but it all depends who is available in those 2 spots

Saw a Coyote fan post this. Didn't want to derail the PHI-PHX thread any further. You can't trade your biggest chip for the privilege of moving up a few spots in a draft. Not unless we're talking about a surefire star ala Ovechkin or Crosby. A GM should be fired for even entertaining the thought. If Holmgren passed on such a deal, he would be fired. Unless you can predict the future with 100% certainty, such a trade is unjustifiable.

Let's pretend that you got Barkov at #4. The Flyers take Monahan or Lindholm at #8. You just traded Keith Yandle, a player worth by all accounts 1 or 2 solid youngsters and a pick, for the privilege of taking a kid slightly more hyped. The risk here is so far off the charts I'm not even sure there's a gambling equivalent. Value wise, it's terrible. There's a solid argument that Yandle is worth a pick outside the top 5 and Couturier without any Coyote pick going the other way. Doubly so for an embattled GM that needs to win. Calgary might do something really stupid if they get assets back for their players, for instance.

Barkov would have to turn into more than a point per game player to win that trade, and that's with the assumption that the Flyers' pick busts. In other words, you are betting the difference between 4 and 8 is greater than the value of Yandle minus Couturier. The draft is a lot of things, but it's no place to be betting on sure things, if history has taught us anything. It's actually entirely possible that you play right into Holmgren's hands, if he likes a player suspected to be available 7-10 more than Barkov, for instance. Not a trade the Coyotes (or really any team) can afford to make.

 

[hbk]

Saw a Coyote fan post this. Didn't want to derail the PHI-PHX thread any further. You can't trade your biggest chip for the privilege of moving up a few spots in a draft. Not unless we're talking about a surefire star ala Ovechkin or Crosby. A GM should be fired for even entertaining the thought. If Holmgren passed on such a deal, he would be fired. Unless you can predict the future with 100% certainty, such a trade is unjustifiable.

Let's pretend that you got Barkov at #4. The Flyers take Monahan or Lindholm at #8. You just traded Keith Yandle, a player worth by all accounts 1 or 2 solid youngsters and a pick, for the privilege of taking a kid slightly more hyped. The risk here is so far off the charts I'm not even sure there's a gambling equivalent. Value wise, it's terrible. There's a solid argument that Yandle is worth a pick outside the top 5 and Couturier without any Coyote pick going the other way. Doubly so for an embattled GM that needs to win. Calgary might do something really stupid if they get assets back for their players, for instance.

Barkov would have to turn into more than a point per game player to win that trade, and that's with the assumption that the Flyers' pick busts. In other words, you are betting the difference between 4 and 8 is greater than the value of Yandle minus Couturier. The draft is a lot of things, but it's no place to be betting on sure things, if history has taught us anything. It's actually entirely possible that you play right into Holmgren's hands, if he likes a player suspected to be available 7-10 more than Barkov, for instance. Not a trade the Coyotes (or really any team) can afford to make.

This type of scenario is not a deadline deal. It's a draft day deal and would only occur if Phoenix has a guy in mind that is head and shoulders above the player they would select at their slot (which may yet be lower than the flyers).

 

[XX]

This type of scenario is not a deadline deal. It's a draft day deal and would only occur if Phoenix has a guy in mind that is head and shoulders above the player they would select at their slot (which may yet be lower than the flyers).

It doesn't matter. It is unjustifiable risk. You would have to be able to accurately predict the future. Even then, you'd likely be fired before it ever came to fruition. That trade is essentially Couturier straight up for Yandle. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the #4 pick is assuredly better than #8, for example. You can't trade Yandle for your preference of 2nd tier prospects. Terrible asset management.

If you love a guy that much, dangle Gormley or Rundblad to move up a few spots. Don't go trading your biggest chip for that right.

 

[Plub]

LMAO at Yandle while Morris just beats his ass. I wish I knew what he was saying.

 

[Summer Rose]

Add Jonas Gustavsson to this list, after seeing him play against us tonight.