Who Would You Rather Have at the Deadline as GM?

[Striiker]

and a 3rd.

Even better.

 

[Garbage Goal]

I don’t get it. Neither option is good, but how can anyone say Hextall? He got great value in trades, but the reason our season went to shit and the value of guys like Simmonds tanked is because of his inaction in the off-season. Dude was deluded into believing Hak was going to lead this team to victory and any losses were part of the development process.

He should have fired who needed to be fired and traded Simmonds in the off-season. Should have played the kids early. Instead, we’re forced to dump guys at their lowest value and make a 1% or whatever the f*** bid for the playoffs.

Neither is good, but Hextall clearly was deluded and, as indicated by his inactions and the JVR signings, thought this team was ready to move forward instead of build.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Coburn for Gudas and a 1st
Timonen for 2 2nds

4 years

 

[Striiker]

4 years

And only 2 of which had them in position to be sellers at the deadline.

 

[FlyTimmo]

And only 2 of which had them in position to be sellers at the deadline.

Yeah and?

So Hexy was just inept at acquiring talent in those more competitive years?

 

[litflyersfan]

Fletcher just flat out dropped the ball this deadline. I guess the guy can’t multitask and was so overwhelmed with the task of trading Simmonds he couldn’t focus on anything else. He left assets on our roster that really don’t have a future here in Raffl and Elliot that could of brought back something. Heck, maybe even Lehtera at 50% retained could of brought back a late pick. So really all that was done was trading Weal for a late pick, Simmonds for a debatable return, and acquiring a veteran goalie who hasn’t seen the ice yet. After months at the helm, spectacular job so far Fletcher.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I don’t get it. Neither option is good, but how can anyone say Hextall? He got great value in trades, but the reason our season went to **** and the value of guys like Simmonds tanked is because of his inaction in the off-season. Dude was deluded into believing Hak was going to lead this team to victory and any losses were part of the development process.

He should have fired who needed to be fired and traded Simmonds in the off-season. Should have played the kids early. Instead, we’re forced to dump guys at their lowest value and make a 1% or whatever the **** bid for the playoffs.

Neither is good, but Hextall clearly was deluded and, as indicated by his inactions and the JVR signings, thought this team was ready to move forward instead of build.

Ask yourself this simple basic question (that the OP proposed):

If you knew you had to trade Wayne Simmonds in the next 2 weeks and you had to choose between one of the 2 GM options here to handle negotiations, who would you choose? (one has to be chosen)

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Yeah and?

So Hexy was just inept at acquiring talent in those more competitive years?

He was smart and didn't blow his beans trying to eek out another round of hockey. Hextall knew the deal with this franchise and knew that we weren't there yet after Homer robbed us of our prospects and stocked the cupboards with bad contracts. Hextall took on one bad contract (Lehtera) that was pretty irrelevant all-in-all in exchange for restocking the system. Hextall changed the outlook of this franchise and I am dumbfounded that people still nitpick over him doing minor things like wasting a 4th on Petr Mrazek or something. Only thing he deserves REAL criticism for is not firing Hak during year 3 -- that was the point where I couldn't really defend Hexy.

Dude had a long-term rebuild plan while simultaneously having a roster with some all-stars that could stick around long enough and be effective once the rebuild was done. Now we have to trust Fletch to not bungle this prize of a franchise he was given. Not starting off well, IMO.

 

[FlyTimmo]

He was smart and didn't blow his beans trying to eek out another round of hockey. Hextall knew the deal with this franchise and knew that we weren't there yet after Homer robbed us of our prospects and stocked the cupboards with bad contracts. Hextall took on one bad contract (Lehtera) that was pretty irrelevant all-in-all in exchange for restocking the system. Hextall changed the outlook of this franchise and I am dumbfounded that people still nitpick over him doing minor things like wasting a 4th on Petr Mrazek or something. Only thing he deserves REAL criticism for is not firing Hak during year 3 -- that was the point where I couldn't really defend Hexy.

Dude had a long-term rebuild plan while simultaneously having a roster with some all-stars that could stick around long enough and be effective once the rebuild was done. Now we have to trust Fletch to not bungle this prize of a franchise he was given. Not starting off well, IMO.

Hextall tried to straddle the line of competing and rebuilding and it left us in a pretty mediocre spot. Sure he did clean up a bunch of things Homer left us with, but over a 5 year period, that is the expectation. It shouldn't take longer than that. And people need to stop fully associating the drafting with Hextall. With a competent scouting staff, literally anyone... you, me, Trump, could draft well. He had an abysmal professional scouting history, and refused to cut ties with possibly the worst coach in franchise history over a fairly lengthy period. When considering everything he did, Hextall was an extremely mediocre GM. Maybe Fletcher will be worse, but we probably weren't going to accomplish anything significant with Hextall anyway.

 

[Magua]

Heck, maybe even Lehtera at 50% retained could of brought back a late pick.

Does Bogota have a hockey team? Otherwise, I’m going to say it’s a firm no.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Ask yourself this simple basic question (that the OP proposed):

If you knew you had to trade Wayne Simmonds in the next 2 weeks and you had to choose between one of the 2 GM options here to handle negotiations, who would you choose? (one has to be chosen)

...The OP doesn't ask that, it just asks who you would rather have as GM for today. Hextall's judgment was completely f***ed as proven by his off-season and in-season decisions before being fired and I have zero faith he would have even traded Simmonds. He's also the reason Simmonds was even there to trade in the first place.

 

[baudib1]

He was smart and didn't blow his beans trying to eek out another round of hockey. Hextall knew the deal with this franchise and knew that we weren't there yet after Homer robbed us of our prospects and stocked the cupboards with bad contracts. Hextall took on one bad contract (Lehtera) that was pretty irrelevant all-in-all in exchange for restocking the system. Hextall changed the outlook of this franchise and I am dumbfounded that people still nitpick over him doing minor things like wasting a 4th on Petr Mrazek or something. Only thing he deserves REAL criticism for is not firing Hak during year 3 -- that was the point where I couldn't really defend Hexy.

Dude had a long-term rebuild plan while simultaneously having a roster with some all-stars that could stick around long enough and be effective once the rebuild was done. Now we have to trust Fletch to not bungle this prize of a franchise he was given. Not starting off well, IMO.

Literally no one has ever complained about Hextall trading a 4th for Mrazek.

The complaints about Hextall mostly revolve around:
1. Hiring/keeping Hakstol as coach.
2. Keeping Lappy around and generally not doing anything to improve the godawful PK.
3. Going into the season with Elliott/Neuvirth as goalies.
4. Not being aggressive enough in the offseason to upgrade the team in other ways (a Grabner for speed and PK ability, a veteran D, getting in on a big trade like Dougie Hamilton).
5. Not promoting the kids fast enough.
6. Being mediocre at best at acquiring NHL talent, and not exploiting bad GMs enough. For example, Chiarelli wanted Manning.
7. Accepting mediocre vets being used for big minutes and not accepting the fact that people like Lehtera and Weise were sunk costs.
8. Not trading Simmer sooner.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Hextall tried to straddle the line of competing and rebuilding and it left us in a pretty mediocre spot. Sure he did clean up a bunch of things Homer left us with, but over a 5 year period, that is the expectation. It shouldn't take longer than that. And people need to stop fully associating the drafting with Hextall. With a competent scouting staff, literally anyone... you, me, Trump, could draft well. He had an abysmal professional scouting history, and refused to cut ties with possibly the worst coach in franchise history over a fairly lengthy period. When considering everything he did, Hextall was an extremely mediocre GM. Maybe Fletcher will be worse, but we probably weren't going to accomplish anything significant with Hextall anyway.

Hextall straddled the line because he totally could. Let's say he went full rebuild: How much longer would that have taken? Even longer than this did, right?

It most definitely is NOT the expectation to have Holmgren's wasteland cleaned up in the 4+ years (not 5, but splitting hairs) when he left such a just nightmare behind...and Hexy did it while STILL being at least a somewhat competitive team. That's rare.

Draft picks ALWAYS fall on the GM ultimately (unless there's some goofy coach/GM role that sometimes exists like in the NFL)- they were Hextall's picks and that can't be taken from him; I'm not buying that argument for a second.

I'd almost call his pro scouting as an incomplete, but I'll be generous and call it not-good. The coach thing I already said was his big issue, so we don't need to beat that to death.

You're right -- Hextall only revitalized the franchise and set us up for the next 10 years but no biggie. He was clearly awful because he got Weise's contract wrong (which EVERYONE agreed was a good signing initially, in the NHL or fans on this board) and because he signed Elliot (which was a terrific signing considering the market -- people still refuse to understand that). Those moves really ruined this franchise and outweigh all of his positive stuff.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

...The OP doesn't ask that, it just asks who you would rather have as GM for today. Hextall's judgment was completely ****ed as proven by his off-season and in-season decisions before being fired and I have zero faith he would have even traded Simmonds. He's also the reason Simmonds was even there to trade in the first place.

You still didn't answer the question.

Fletcher or Hextall.

 

[Garbage Goal]

You still didn't answer the question.

Fletcher or Hextall.

Does me not starting the first post you quoted by saying, how could anyone say Hextall, not imply the answer?

Your reading comprehension was apparently off before concerning the OP and apparently there's no room for implication and everything must be explicitly stated for you as well. MY VOTE IS FOR FLETCHER.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Literally no one has ever complained about Hextall trading a 4th for Mrazek.

The complaints about Hextall mostly revolve around:
1. Hiring/keeping Hakstol as coach.
2. Keeping Lappy around and generally not doing anything to improve the godawful PK.
3. Going into the season with Elliott/Neuvirth as goalies.
4. Not being aggressive enough in the offseason to upgrade the team in other ways (a Grabner for speed and PK ability, a veteran D, getting in on a big trade like Dougie Hamilton).
5. Not promoting the kids fast enough.
6. Being mediocre at best at acquiring NHL talent, and not exploiting bad GMs enough. For example, Chiarelli wanted Manning.
7. Accepting mediocre vets being used for big minutes and not accepting the fact that people like Lehtera and Weise were sunk costs.
8. Not trading Simmer sooner.

Absolutely they have. I saw people say (in hindsight) that it was a waste of an asset. At the time of the deal, it was nearly a unanimous positive.

1. Hiring Hak wasn't so bad, but keeping him after Year 2 was bad. I'll grant that of course.
2. I'll go with this, but that's lumped into the Hak one since coaches usually pick their assistants.
3. Who else did you want? Not many options at reasonable prices. Hart is your only other guy, but dude was about to start in the AHL. Can't blame him for that really.
4. Why trade for Hamilton when we have prospects who aren't getting enough ice time now? That's a waste of assets. Grabner would've been nice, sure...but we did sign JVR. I don't see how that isn't aggressive.
5. Have to argue this one for sure. He didn't promote all kids soon enough, but he definitely promoted kids. Provorov played immediately, Ghost came up right about at the right time, Hagg played quickly, Patrick made the team right away, Konecny made the team right away...sure Hart and Sanheim didn't come up when people wanted, but I illustrated several times where Hexy played the kids right away yet I doubt anyone will weigh that equally... All harry hindsight nonsense people use to villainize the best GM we've had since there was a salary cap instituted.
6. I disagree, but we'll split the difference and say he's mediocre at this, sure.
7. I think Hexy accepted those things, but again it ties into the Hak thing where generally the coach picks their players. GMs can choose callups and send-downs, but not without the coach usually. So really it ties into bullet 1 again.
8. Don't try to pin Fletcher's nonsense return on Hextall. Please.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Does me not starting the first post you quoted by saying, how could anyone say Hextall, not imply the answer?

Your reading comprehension was apparently off before concerning the OP and apparently there's no room for implication and everything must be explicitly stated for you as well. MY VOTE IS FOR FLETCHER.

Yes, there is no room for implication when I ask a direct question to be answered with "Hextall or Fletcher" only.

I'd ask you to justify your vote of Fletcher, but what's the point.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Yes, there is no room for implication when I ask a direct question to be answered with "Hextall or Fletcher" only.

I'd ask you to justify your vote of Fletcher, but what's the point.

I agree, there's no point since you apparently need to go back to grade school to learn reading and reading comprehension skills and you don't seem in the mood for a reasonable conversation anyway. Considering you misquoted the OP and topic at hand, can't be bothered to learn how to read between the lines or click on a hyperlink to view poll results, and feel like asking for an explanation I already gave in two posts you already quoted.

Sometimes it's really hard to tell if someone is just ornery and triggered or is just really dense. Either way, not my problem.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Hextall straddled the line because he totally could. Let's say he went full rebuild: How much longer would that have taken? Even longer than this did, right?

It most definitely is NOT the expectation to have Holmgren's wasteland cleaned up in the 4+ years (not 5, but splitting hairs) when he left such a just nightmare behind...and Hexy did it while STILL being at least a somewhat competitive team. That's rare.

Draft picks ALWAYS fall on the GM ultimately (unless there's some goofy coach/GM role that sometimes exists like in the NFL)- they were Hextall's picks and that can't be taken from him; I'm not buying that argument for a second.

I'd almost call his pro scouting as an incomplete, but I'll be generous and call it not-good. The coach thing I already said was his big issue, so we don't need to beat that to death.

You're right -- Hextall only revitalized the franchise and set us up for the next 10 years but no biggie. He was clearly awful because he got Weise's contract wrong (which EVERYONE agreed was a good signing initially, in the NHL or fans on this board) and because he signed Elliot (which was a terrific signing considering the market -- people still refuse to understand that). Those moves really ruined this franchise and outweigh all of his positive stuff.

Since Hextall went with the quasi-rebuild plan and not the full rebuild, we don't know. But, what we do know is that 5 years later we are stranded in mediocrity. And it looks like contending is still years away. But, if you are fine with that.... cool? And are we really set up for the future? Maybe?

Everything falls on the GM, even if it shouldn't fully be. Is Hextall responsible for creating the scouting staff and having a holistic plan? Yes. But the scouting staff is vastly more responsible than Hextall for the drafting, that's just reality whether you accept it or not.

 

[ArchAngel55]

I don’t get it. Neither option is good, but how can anyone say Hextall? He got great value in trades, but the reason our season went to **** and the value of guys like Simmonds tanked is because of his inaction in the off-season. Dude was deluded into believing Hak was going to lead this team to victory and any losses were part of the development process.

He should have fired who needed to be fired and traded Simmonds in the off-season. Should have played the kids early. Instead, we’re forced to dump guys at their lowest value and make a 1% or whatever the **** bid for the playoffs.

Neither is good, but Hextall clearly was deluded and, as indicated by his inactions and the JVR signings, thought this team was ready to move forward instead of build.

The question was who would you want at the trade deadline. Making trades for today.

 

[Hurricane28]

Can I go neither?

 

[Garbage Goal]

The question was who would you want at the trade deadline. Making trades for today.

Actually, no, it doesn't. The topic title and OP doesn't say anything about making trades. Just says who would you rather have as GM for today. Regardless of whether it being the deadline or not, I'm not sure Hextall would even have traded Simmonds with how he approached this season and that was the one trade that needed to happen. So I voted Fletcher.

 

[wankstifier]

There’s no difference

 

[baudib1]

I'd go for neither.

I will say that I am happy Hextall was the GM for the previous four years and not Fletcher, and I prefer having Fletcher to Hextall right now. I think he'll be better at this part of "the process."

 

[phil162888]

Obviously Hextall.

His flaw was coaching decisions, but outside of that he was far better at pretty much everything.

If he just fired douchebag 2 years ago or even 1 year ago he'd still be here and we'd be winning. He was his worst enemy