Who would replace AV?

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
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Slim pickings.

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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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Playoff record is goofy to look at. Bergeron and Marchand's playoff numbers would be butt if they played for teams built by Flyers management. They'd have no support for the bulk of their careers.

You could drop Rask and Thomas on the Flyers and similarly, they'd have failed too. Lack of support and all. Bad management things, but without the Boston luck to compensate for bad management.

If we had Rask, Hakstol would still be our HC and we'd have multiple deep PO runs the last four years.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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I'm confused, exactly what has Gallant done in three coaching stints to make you think he's a good HC?

One good run with Vegas, one good regular season in Florida which ended with a 1st rd loss. His second year in Vegas he sneaked into the playoffs with 93 points and lost in the 1st rd.

3 PO appearances in 9 seasons doesn't inspire confidence.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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Yeah, definitely not. Rask isn't Hasek.

Definitely so, you underestimate how bad our goalies have been the last four seasons, which implies how good the rest of the team actually has been, despite the nay-sayers:

2017-18:
Elliott (41) +0.16 - PO (4) +2.23
Neuvirth (21) +0.15 - PO (3) +2.00
Mrazek (17) +0.84
Lyon (11) +0.15
2018-19:
Hart (31) +0.30
Elliott (26) +0.28
Stolarz (12) +0.66
Pickard (11) +1.64
Neuvirth (7) +1.84
2019-20:
Hart (43) +0.06 - PO Hart (12) -0.28
Elliott (31) +0.45
2020-21:
Elliott (30) +0.83
Hart (27) +1.25
Lyon (6) +0.90
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,487
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Armored Train
Definitely so, you underestimate how bad our goalies have been the last four seasons, which implies how good the rest of the team actually has been, despite the nay-sayers:

2017-18:
Elliott (41) +0.16 - PO (4) +2.23
Neuvirth (21) +0.15 - PO (3) +2.00
Mrazek (17) +0.84
Lyon (11) +0.15
2018-19:
Hart (31) +0.30
Elliott (26) +0.28
Stolarz (12) +0.66
Pickard (11) +1.64
Neuvirth (7) +1.84
2019-20:
Hart (43) +0.06 - PO Hart (12) -0.28
Elliott (31) +0.45
2020-21:
Elliott (30) +0.83
Hart (27) +1.25
Lyon (6) +0.90

Rask is good, but he's not so elite that he can make up for Hakstol's horrific offense.

It is interesting to watch you decide that "goaltending is all that matters" as a new means of absolving coaches of blame.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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Goaltending isnt "all that matters" but it is the most important aspect of team building.
It takes an elite team playing at a high level to overcome below average (below +0.10) goaltending.
And no HC can overcome bad goaltending, it's like running a race with 10 lb weights on your ankles.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
I'm confused, exactly what has Gallant done in three coaching stints to make you think he's a good HC?

One good run with Vegas, one good regular season in Florida which ended with a 1st rd loss. His second year in Vegas he sneaked into the playoffs with 93 points and lost in the 1st rd.

3 PO appearances in 9 seasons doesn't inspire confidence.

Nothing to prove he's any better than Vigneault.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,487
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Goaltending isnt "all that matters" but it is the most important aspect of team building.
It takes an elite team playing at a high level to overcome below average (below +0.10) goaltending.
And no HC can overcome bad goaltending, it's like running a race with 10 lb weights on your ankles.

Good HCs make the life of goaltenders easier. Bad HCs do the opposite.

Goalies aren't operating independently of the team and coaching as some kind of make-or-break wildcard.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Good HCs make the life of goaltenders easier. Bad HCs do the opposite.

Goalies aren't operating independently of the team and coaching as some kind of make-or-break wildcard.

But that's reflected in xGA, some goalies have low GAA b/c their defenses limit tough shots, others overcome bad defense (Hellebuyck).
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,487
164,339
Armored Train
But that's reflected in xGA, some goalies have low GAA b/c their defenses limit tough shots, others overcome bad defense (Hellebuyck).

These stats aren't perfect and aren't accounting for what happens to a goalie mentally when a team overloads one side and suddenly they have to cover multiple open options at once.....over and over and over without relent, and there is nothing they can have faith in. This Flyers season was stat-breaking-outlier levels of bad.

Our team defense on a systemic level was worse than Winnipeg's.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,501
42,239
The management of both teams are hell bent on making the playoffs in 21-22, so it will be a very fair fight between AV and Gallant. The Rags rebuild is officially over after they fired their GM and coach. For either team to miss will be a big disappointment, and in AV's case it would likely cost him his job.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
These stats aren't perfect and aren't accounting for what happens to a goalie mentally when a team overloads one side and suddenly they have to cover multiple open options at once.....over and over and over without relent, and there is nothing they can have faith in. This Flyers season was stat-breaking-outlier levels of bad.

Our team defense on a systemic level was worse than Winnipeg's.

Every team gives up HDCA, Flyers didn't not give up an usual number (13th, all situations), and good goalies stop some of those shots.
Flyers had the worst HDSV% at 76.69%.
Buffalo was the median at 80.54%
Top 5: AVs, VGK, TB, Edm, Winnipeg
Winnipeg was 30th in HDCA. Blackhawks were 31st (defense? we don't need no stinkin' defense).
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
Every team gives up HDCA, Flyers didn't not give up an usual number (13th, all situations), and good goalies stop some of those shots.
Flyers had the worst HDSV% at 76.69%.
Buffalo was the median at 80.54%
Top 5: AVs, VGK, TB, Edm, Winnipeg
Winnipeg was 30th in HDCA. Blackhawks were 31st (defense? we don't need no stinkin' defense).
The "blame the coaching, not the goalies" narrative is just another lame excuse to defend the players for lousy play and/or for being overrated by the fanbase.

Buffalo had a horrendous defense and Linus Ullmark still managed to put up respectable numbers. And he's been a career #2 who no one speaks of as some sort of star.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
The players weren't lousy, they weren't as good as 2019-20, but the difference between the two seasons is obvious, no team is going to make the playoffs when your goalies literally average an extra goal per game v the average starting goalie.

And blaming the defense is BS, I have never seen so many soft goals allowed on a regular basis, bad rebound control, failing to seal the post, slow glove hand, in the case of Elliott poor lateral movement.

This isn't to say they couldn't play better defense, but there's a psychological toll from bad goaltending, if every mistake ends up in the back of the net, players start clutching their sticks, playing too conservatively, thinking instead of reacting.
 

Fight4yourRight

“Chuck’s my guy”
Dec 18, 2017
3,367
7,380
Playoff record is goofy to look at. Bergeron and Marchand's playoff numbers would be butt if they played for teams built by Flyers management. They'd have no support for the bulk of their careers.

You could drop Rask and Thomas on the Flyers and similarly, they'd have failed too. Lack of support and all. Bad management things, but without the Boston luck to compensate for bad management.

This is kind of the issue right there though, isn’t it? Not denying that this current FO and coaching staff ought to be replaced. But I don’t buy the argument that this core has also been completely flawless and just hampered by poor management and roster decisions. Pure speculation either way to say that guys like Marchand and Bergeron would or would not have been bigger decision makers than the Flyers core. As with most things in life (and contrary to what someone like Striiker would argue), it’s quite grey, and a combination of factors that has led to this past decade plus of ineptitude.
 

Flyerfan4life

Registered User
Jun 9, 2010
34,591
20,931
Richmond BC, Canada
These stats aren't perfect and aren't accounting for what happens to a goalie mentally when a team overloads one side and suddenly they have to cover multiple open options at once.....over and over and over without relent, and there is nothing they can have faith in. This Flyers season was stat-breaking-outlier levels of bad.

Our team defense on a systemic level was worse than Winnipeg's.

i dont understand how anyone who watched last season can sit back and think both Moose and Hart forgot how to hockey at the same time..

AVs godam system was sooo bad.. aint no goalie in history could survive in that net, and put up winning numbers..
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Rask is good, but he's not so elite that he can make up for Hakstol's horrific offense.

It is interesting to watch you decide that "goaltending is all that matters" as a new means of absolving coaches of blame.
2015-16: 22nd in GF
2016-17: 20th in GF
2017-18: 13th, after trading Schenn, with Filppula, Patrick (19), Raffl and Weal in your top 9.
 

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