Who would cross first?

[dakota]

On "Off the Record", they had Turco, Hurme, Staios, and Harvey. I forgot which one, but someone said if a player were to cross, he would never be in the NHLPA ever again.

what if 400 crossed?

 

[SuperUnknown]

On "Off the Record", they had Turco, Hurme, Staios, and Harvey. I forgot which one, but someone said if a player were to cross, he would never be in the NHLPA ever again.

They can't refuse anyone in the NHLPA...

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

On "Off the Record", they had Turco, Hurme, Staios, and Harvey. I forgot which one, but someone said if a player were to cross, he would never be in the NHLPA ever again.

None of these gentlemen has ever struck me as the probable next leader of any developed nation, so their opinions probably don't strike much fear into their union brethren. I can't imagine Modano, for example, placing pleasing these ding-dongs over feeding Anastasia-Priscilla.

 

[Icey]

They can't refuse anyone in the NHLPA...

Why not, major league baseball did it. They still have players playing in the league 10 years later that crossed the line, but they are not members of the union and will never be. They also have no voting rights. That's all Turco was saying.

 

[Jeffrey]

The 1st to cross will be AHLer borderline NHLer ...
but IMO the 1st start to cross would be Kovalchuk

 

[SedinFan*]

Lemieux's the first obvious one, then my second guess, would be the pests around the league.

 

[StevenintheATL]

The 1st to cross will be AHLer borderline NHLer ...
but IMO the 1st start to cross would be Kovalchuk

He'd have to sign a contract first. He and Heatley are restricted free agents, and would have to sign a new contract first.

If the league goes to replacement players, I think that many of the teams early on will resemble their AAA affliates. Many teams will probably have players that have spent time in the NHL, and wouldn't be surprised if some career minor leaguers sign with NHL teams as well.

As for the first major player to cross, I'm going with Roenick. Something about him just seems like he really could care less about what the other players think about him. After Roenick, I can see players who stayed home and didn't play elsewhere in 2004-2005 starting to cross.

 

[Jester]

The 1st to cross will be AHLer borderline NHLer ...
but IMO the 1st start to cross would be Kovalchuk

Ilya was actually making more in Russia than he would have in the NHL this past season... that won't continue long term, but will be interesting to watch. SI or whoever had that article on Vinny and Richards, in it they talked about Ilya's situation... he wouldn't be high on my list of people to cross.

If a guy with an NHL contract crosses the line I do believe the owner would be forced to honor the contract that the player previously had. If we reach this point, the players will cross. It happens everytime. Prior to the MLB thing getting worked out, big time players were already starting to say they were going to cross... i specifically remember Dykstra on ESPN saying he was going to cross the line. NFL players did when push came to shove... so will NHL players.

they fail to realize that they do not own this business and are not capable of creating the business they enjoyed working under. they WILL realize this if we ever reach the replacement player stage. why go to the hassle to start up a grassroots league, playing in small arena's for the gate money, or in Europe for a lot less money, when you could simply say, "okay, here's your cap" and be making millions of dollars.

end game approaches one way or another.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The question of how much a Yashin can earn in a "replacement NHL" is actually an interesting one. I would assume, since we're talking about a replacement NHL, that Yashin would be earning a new salary, not his old one with the Islanders. After all, the long-term deal he has with NYI is recognized by the NHLPA. If you circumvent the PA, I would have to think Yashin gets paid significantly less in a replacement NHL--though probably more than the average replacement player due to his name recognition and promotional value.

In fact, does he even HAVE to play for the Islanders? We don't even know HOW these teams will be filling up their rosters. Will they simply get whomever they can get?

Lots of interesting questions to answer in the coming months.

 

[monkey_00*]

1)If the NHL does start with replacement players, which PA players are likely to
abandon the union and sign with NHL teams.If you like state reason why.
2)Also how many would it take for the floodgates to open?
3)Which one player would have the most potential to "open the floodgates"(don't
list players that are hard-core union)?

Answer any or all of the above.

pei fan.........

(1) 2 names for me quickly come to mind..........first MIKE MODANO because he lost a BOAT-load of money last season playing the stock market........he"s in deep financial doo doo.........the other name for me that quickly comes to mind is a guy like DONALD BRASHEAR simply because he strikes me as someone who doesn't give a rats ass about what anybody thinks of him and he would take on all comers (NHLPA members) who would want to come after him for crossing the line.......It will be someone from the Philadelphia Flyers, they have the roster of players to do it.....bunch of bad asses (and I mean that in the nicest way cause I like a team with alot of "bad asses").......PLUS Bobby Clarke has been pretty vocal lately and as well Ed Snyder of the Flyers has already told reporters that he doesn't want to stay in the same room with Goodenow because he knows he would grab him by the neck and strangle him...........

(2) I think it would take 10 guys and that's all.........I think there are alot of players who are currently wanting to cross that line, they just don't want to be the first one to do it that's all........alot of these guys will sit back and watch guys like Modano or the Brashears cross over just to see what the reaction from a guy like Goodenow would be.......and then the floodgates would open because at that stage of the game Goodenow would be F***** and wouldn't know what to do........

(3) It will be someone non-Canadian.......on a U.S.-based NHL club like Philadelphia Flyers......I can see a core group of them like Roenick, Primeau and Brashear crossing the line and urging the rest of their team-mates to follow suite.

 

[Mess]

(3) It will be someone non-Canadian.......on a U.S.-based NHL club like Philadelphia Flyers......I can see a core group of them like Roenick, Primeau and Brashear crossing the line and urging the rest of their team-mates to follow suite.

I would have said Roenick before his standing in front of the whole players meeting and apologizing for his last actions and comments .. I think to have any credibility with the NHLPA and his fellow team-mates he might be the last one to cross now ..

The fact that you are thrown out of the PA Union if you cross should stop most and the fact that Agents face disipline from the PA as well for negotiating a Replacement player contract of a NHLPA member ..

I think it could be Yashin or Jagr maybe Holik .. They have long term NHL deals and may cross to get some of that money back ..

 

[monkey_00*]

I would have said Roenick before his standing in front of the whole players meeting and apologizing for his last actions and comments .. I think to have any credibility with the NHLPA and his fellow team-mates he might be the last one to cross now ..

The fact that you are thrown out of the PA Union if you cross should stop most and the fact that Agents face disipline from the PA as well for negotiating a Replacement player contract of a NHLPA member ..

I think it could be Yashin or Jagr maybe Holik .. They have long term NHL deals and may cross to get some of that money back ..

The Messenger.........

Doesn"t matter.........I still think Roenick is a high candidate for crossing the line first even though he apologized to the members of the NHLPA.........what happens if we get to next October and still no NHL hockey?.........then what huh?..........Goodenow and people like him (player agents) have ruined the NHL game...........I just have this sneaky felling in my gut that Roenick will be one of the first guys (if not the first) to cross over.

 

[Mess]

The Messenger.........

Doesn"t matter.........I still think Roenick is a high candidate for crossing the line first even though he apologized to the members of the NHLPA.........what happens if we get to next October and still no NHL hockey?.........then what huh?..........Goodenow and people like him (player agents) have ruined the NHL game...........I just have this sneaky felling in my gut that Roenick will be one of the first guys (if not the first) to cross over.

It would be very risky for any high profile big contact player to cross.

Also Roenick's contract expires this summer .. So he would be an UFA come July 1st, he can go anywhere he wants not limiting him to Philly alone. He would in fact have to be invited accross without a contract and there is no guarantee Philly wants him back. Basically Roenick would not be a good possibility .. He could be signed as a Replacement player but has no line to cross as a UFA technically.

Also the motivation of an unsigned player would be less and he would then get a deal much less then before and you always want comparitive contracts of players to match up against to set your value.

 

[pei fan]

In another thread a Calgary fan suggested that Sutter had alot of influence
with his players,maybe even moreso than the nhlpa has with them.Could it be
in the case of a replacement league that a coaches influence will be a factor?
Are there other coaches with a similar influence on their players.

 

[dakota]

It would be very risky for any high profile big contact player to cross.

what? please explain why you think this is true? One would think it be less risky for the the high profile player... Mario Lemieux will be playing... why wouldnt he convince Mark Recchi to play?

 

[Jester]

(3) It will be someone non-Canadian.......on a U.S.-based NHL club like Philadelphia Flyers......I can see a core group of them like Roenick, Primeau and Brashear crossing the line and urging the rest of their team-mates to follow suite.

Primeau is VERY pro-union and has made enough money that he isn't hurting... plus he's starting up his own equipment company, Fury, so he has stuff to do. He actually walked out of the groundswelling that Esche was starting in Philly that got the ball rolling in the final days... thought it was subverting leadership. So... no, he probably won't be crossing. as much as i would like him to.

i don't see Roenick doing it just because he's made so much loot, why go through the aggravation with the other players at this point? he isn't in financial straits and he has a lot of side projects that i'm pretty sure he makes good coin for.

Brash, yeah... i could see that.

fair chance that Esche is someone that will cross in philly. i don't know a ton about players outside of the philly area's direct opinion on what is going on, but i would bet on any one of the number of guys that spoke out in support of cap before being "misquoted" as potential crossers. however, i think there are a ton of guys in the 3rd/4th line, bottom pair dmen, etc... that will be interested in coming across simply because they are the ones getting hit in the nuts the hardest by the union stance.

what i have always found to be humorous about sports unions is that they really leave their "weakest" financial members out in the sun when it comes to these things. when someone like SAG goes on strike or has labor issues it is always for the guys who are career commercial actors and whatnot, aka their weakest financial members.

interesting contrast.

 

[Roots73]

I can't see Ca$hin or Jagr being the first to cross. If a new CBA is implemented, I'm sure that their contracts would be restructured down from their current levels. As a result they may consider staying over in Europe.

You'd expect Modano or Roenick crossing because of the off-ice issues. Float them a couple mill and they'll be back. But those players won't be enough to create a major rift in the union.

Joe Montana turned the tide when he crossed the picket lines during NFL players strike back in the 80's. Who would be the equivalent in the NHL lockout??

If you get a combination of any of these players, the union will fold. Young "superstars" like Spezza, Heatley or Kovalchuk or established players like Yzerman or Kariya. None of these guys were really vocal in support of the union and could cross if a group forms.

 

[chara]

Guys will cross.

To lose even 500K/season is a lot of money for guys who already have short careers at best. Take a look at your favorite team and you can easily name 5-6 guys who know their NHL careers aren't that long to begin with. Can you blame them for crossing and becoming 'scabs' ? Funny how NHLers taking jobs in Europe and they're not scabs. Oh right, they're worse as they don't really need the money to put food on the table and pay the bills.

 

[Mess]

Joe Montana turned the tide when he crossed the picket lines during NFL players strike back in the 80's. Who would be the equivalent in the NHL lockout??

.

Soon after Montana crossed the NFLPA decertified and the restrictive CBA was abolished and former NFL players won millions in Anti-trust suits ..

Despite the Montana crossing the Fines and penalties inforced by the courts as much as 3 times the amount the players where out of pocket forced the owners now playing without any CBA back to the table and worked out a very favourable CBA to the players to stop all the lawsuits ..

SO what is seemed like NFL win ..turned out to be a loss in the long term ..

The NHL is ripe for this to happen again because players Salaries will change drastically OLD CBA to NEW CBA and then the courts will need to get involved for fans to see Hockey Again ..

 

[12# Peter Bondra]

Juraj Kolnik may be another player to cross. Also Svatos comes to mind.

 

[dakota]

Soon after Montana crossed the NFLPA decertified and the restrictive CBA was abolished and former NFL players won millions in Anti-trust suits ..

Despite the Montana crossing the Fines and penalties inforced by the courts as much as 3 times the amount the players where out of pocket forced the owners now playing without any CBA back to the table and worked out a very favourable CBA to the players to stop all the lawsuits ..

SO what is seemed like NFL win ..turned out to be a loss in the long term ..

The NHL is ripe for this to happen again because players Salaries will change drastically OLD CBA to NEW CBA and then the courts will need to get involved for fans to see Hockey Again ..

im sure the NHL will spend the 300 million as the NFL did to settle these cases... besides if majority players cross the line and every indication they have shown us (playing in Europe, UHL etc) shows us they care about themselves first, the NHL will be back. If you consider the NFL case a "loss" then I am sure the owners would gladly take this case.

 

[Mess]

im sure the NHL will spend the 300 million as the NFL did to settle these cases... besides if majority players cross the line and every indication they have shown us (playing in Europe, UHL etc) shows us they care about themselves first, the NHL will be back. If you consider the NFL case a "loss" then I am sure the owners would gladly take this case.

How do you see the 300 mil in fines and penalties a win for the NHL Owners ??

If you do the math 42.5 (Owners) - verses a 45.0 settlement = 2.5 X 30 teams = 75 Mil per year .. X 6 year deal = $450 Mil total ..

That is numbers based on all 30 teams spending every penny of the 45.0 suggested CBA cap figure that would get a deal done ..

$ 300 mil (guaranteed) in fines or $450 (worst case ) in max money..

Which is the better option ...??

and the NFL also did not get their CBA self impossed (IMPASSE CBA), but had to come to meet the players in a more player friendly CBA ...

SO that could mean the NHL could pay the $300 mil in Fines and then still end up at a 45.0 mil Hard Cap CBA eventually with/without Linkage..

 

[DARKSIDE]

Here is a list of guys I wouldn't be surprised to see crossing the picket lines (if there are any... haha that would be so funny):

Mike Modano
Jeremy Roenick
Dany Heatley
Robert Esche
Mark Recchi
Chris Pronger
Jarome Iginla
Shane Doan
Mike Ribeiro
Pierre Dagenais
Steve Begin
Sydney Crosby

Could get ugly for these players. I mean they'll probably get an earful from Bill Gurein...The one and only, who suggested that the NHL would be better off folding!

 

[dakota]

How do you see the 300 mil in fines and penalties a win for the NHL Owners ??

If you do the math 42.5 (Owners) - verses a 45.0 settlement = 2.5 X 30 teams = 75 Mil per year .. X 6 year deal = $450 Mil total ..


That is numbers based on all 30 teams spending every penny of the 45.0 suggested CBA cap figure that would get a deal done ..

$ 300 mil (guaranteed) in fines or $450 (worst case ) in max money..

Which is the better option ...??

and the NFL also did not get their CBA self impossed (IMPASSE CBA), but had to come to meet the players in a more player friendly CBA ...

SO that could mean the NHL could pay the $300 mil in Fines and then still end up at a 45.0 mil Hard Cap CBA eventually with/without Linkage..

Because they will get their system they want (probably a lower salary cap... say 32 million and all the systemic changes they want)... increasing the values of their franchises... and capping the player salaries at percentage of revenues - 300 million is not that much if they get that (they have that war chest remember)... the NFL did the same thing.

 

[Mess]

Because they will get their system they want (probably a lower salary cap... say 32 million and all the systemic changes they want)... increasing the values of their franchises... and capping the player salaries at percentage of revenues - 300 million is not that much if they get that (they have that war chest remember)... the NFL did the same thing.

The NFL has a huge Revenue Sharing TV deal that makes it work .. The NHL does not have that and it will be probem if the NHL thinks the outcome will be the same .. IMO

The US courts impossed a Hard Cap on the NFL .. It was not negoiated ..likely that NHL will need to have the same happen ..

Remember in the NFL .. the players trade of is nearly total UFA to move around freely to a point .. Is the NHL prepared to lower UFA age ..and then we have the non-guaranteed contracts and the Franchise player in the cap world ..