NHL Who Wore It Best - #4 - The winner annouced in Post #31

[GordonHowe]

Gretzky the greatest offensive player ever.

Bobby Orr the greatest player ever.

Now, I would agree with this.

I would take Bobby over Gretz.

And Gordie as the overall greatest player. Three zones, defense, offense, power play, penalty kill.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Now, I would agree with this.

I would take Bobby over Gretz.

And Gordie as the overall greatest player. Three zones, defense, offense, power play, penalty kill.

That's why they called him Mr. Hockey.

 

[BradPark22]

There are only two names that are mentioned for best player ever and Beliveau isn't one of those names. Number 4 Bobby Orr.

 

[jgatie]

There are only two names that are mentioned for best player ever and Beliveau isn't one of those names. Number 4 Bobby Orr.

This. It can be argue that Beliveau wasn't even the best ever player on his TEAM, nevermind the best ever in the league.

 

[BMC]

Now, I would agree with this.

I would take Bobby over Gretz.

And Gordie as the overall greatest player. Three zones, defense, offense, power play, penalty kill.

Yes!!!

I was never all that impressed with Gretzky. Yes his ability to create offense was & is unparalleled but he didn't do anything else- no PKing and zero defense. Hell opponents couldn't even breathe on him so he had all the time & room in the world to do his thing. Plus his peak years were in the offensively wide open 1980s when defense was an afterthought for a lot of teams. Give me Orr & Howe over him 7 days a week.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yes!!!

I was never all that impressed with Gretzky. Yes his ability to create offense was & is unparalleled but he didn't do anything else- no PKing and zero defense. Hell opponents couldn't even breathe on him so he had all the time & room in the world to do his thing. Plus his peak years were in the offensively wide open 1980s when defense was an afterthought for a lot of teams. Give me Orr & Howe over him 7 days a week.

Hard to say no PK as Gretzky is the all-time leader in short-handed goals.

 

[BMC]

Hard to say no PK as Gretzky is the all-time leader in short-handed goals.

Hmmm...I don't recall seeing him on the PK but then I'm getting older

 

[jgatie]

I got in an argument with Habs fans one time, back in the old newsgroup days. They kept going on about the 26 Cups, the dynasty, the domination over the Bruins, etc. My comeback for every Habs achievement was "But we had Bobby Orr". Eventually they got pissed, because they knew they had no comeback, and no, they didn't even try to say "But we had Jean Beliveau" because they knew it would be laughed at.

 

[GordonHowe]

This. It can be argue that Beliveau wasn't even the best ever player on his TEAM, nevermind the best ever in the league.

C'mon. Who, on MTL, was greater, for the longest period of time, than Jean Beliveau?

MTL always had great, great players, but think about it.

Jean Béliveau - Wikipedia

 

[GordonHowe]

Yes!!!

I was never all that impressed with Gretzky. Yes his ability to create offense was & is unparalleled but he didn't do anything else- no PKing and zero defense. Hell opponents couldn't even breathe on him so he had all the time & room in the world to do his thing. Plus his peak years were in the offensively wide open 1980s when defense was an afterthought for a lot of teams. Give me Orr & Howe over him 7 days a week.

I completely agree. Gretzky was great, the greatest ever in terms of offense.

But that doesn't light it up for me.

Bobby (say it with me) "revolutionized the position," but also *played defense.* And he fought near the end of an era in which great players handled the physical stuff on their own. Another difference from the Gretzky years.

Gordie did it all. Everything. To me, the greatest all around player to grace the NHL

And,

 

[jgatie]

C'mon. Who, on MTL, was greater, for the longest period of time, than Jean Beliveau?

MTL always had great, great players, but think about it.

Jean Béliveau - Wikipedia

So now you have already put qualifiers (the bold) on it that taint the answer. But here's one - Rocket Richard. More peak years than Beliveau, and actually the first man to score 50.

By the way, Orr wasn't the "greater, for the longest period of time" Bruin. That is most certainly Ray Bourque. Is Ray Bourque the best ever player for the Bruins?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

So now you have already put qualifiers (the bold) on it that taint the answer. But here's one - Rocket Richard. More peak years than Beliveau, and actually the first man to score 50.

By the way, Orr wasn't the "greater, for the longest period of time" Bruin. That is most certainly Ray Bourque. Is Ray Bourque the best ever player for the Bruins?

Beliveau played 20 seasons for Montreal. The Rocket played 18. So there really isn't much difference there. And Maurice Richard is certainly more legendary than Beliveau.

But the first 50 goal thing is tainted by the fact that it happened in a War year (1944-45). It was a 50 game season then, so it was 50 in 50. That didn't occur again until Mike Bossy did it in 1980-81.

 

[Alicat]

The correct answer is Robert Gordon Orr

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

honestly I had no idea what number Beliveau wore. no doubt hes a great player from history and most fans who are knowledgable would find a spot in the top 20 centers of all time for him. some would even put him top 10. and I think montreal fans would vote him top 5 in their franchise history as well. thats high company when you have guys like rocket Richard, guy lafleur, larry robinson, doug Harvey, and vezina also vying for consideration...

bobby orr and wayne gretzky. theres only 2 acceptable names to be mentioned when asked who the greatest player of all time was. one wore 99 and that number is retired because he was 99. the other wore 4 and you are trying to make a case hes not the best number 4 or the most famous number 4?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

as for gretzky one pet peeve of mine... as he got older... past 28... the local media continued to call him the greatest player. when they sat him for the penalty shot in the Olympics... there was near riots.

but gretzky post 30 years of age was a rather average top star player. his goal scoring was not good. he was a -86 for his career after 1991. his ppg was way behind lemiux, and also behind Lindros, jagr, lafontaine, selanne, forsberg

and just inches ahead of kariya, sakic, oats, turgeron, neely, hull, molginy, yzerman

like... dont get me wrong... good company… but

he simply was no longer the best player in the nhl for the final 7 or so seasons he hung around. I think its hard to even put him top 10 since he was so 1 dimensional in his later years.

this is someone whose period of domination didnt last longer than orr's and his reputation really just got bigger by time and luck of health holding out

howe too... impressive that he stayed motivated and fit and healthy for sure... but on his best day he wasnt the greatest player of all time. you close every guy in nhl history and line them up for a pickup... howe doesnt go over lemiux, he doesnt go over Lindros. I daresay he doesnt go over neely or messier.

big strong powerful kid... but he wasnt playing against steroid genetic freaks of the 1990s. howe was a big boy by the standards of 1960 and took every bit of advantage of it. he wasnt 6'4. he wasnt 235 pounds. he wasnt alexander oveckin or jaromir jagr

and team defense in those days consisted of clutching and grabbing. there was no left wing locks or traps. if a player had an advantage of skating they could free wheel. if they had an advantage of strength they could overpower.

todays coaching and team defense shuts down individual skill like never before in history. todays athletes are faster... stronger... shoot the puck a million miles harder... the goalies arent even from the same planet.

props to the old timers for dominating their era... but lets not loose sight of these other measures.

orr… simply put changed the game.

the game was one way before he showed up. and another way after.

he redefined a position.

im sure that if you swap orr for karlsson today... that orr wouldnt look nearly so different. today theres many guys like orr. today the coaching would shut orr down. today orr would be criticized for not playing the team system.

but what orr did that the others didnt do... is change the game... he became the blueprint.

howe couldnt be blue printed. everyone played his style. he simply did it better

no one played like orr

now half of them play like orr

 

[GordonHowe]

So now you have already put qualifiers (the bold) on it that taint the answer. But here's one - Rocket Richard. More peak years than Beliveau, and actually the first man to score 50.

By the way, Orr wasn't the "greater, for the longest period of time" Bruin. That is most certainly Ray Bourque. Is Ray Bourque the best ever player for the Bruins?

The Rocket scored his 50, won Cups, and was a great offensive player. I believe Jean was the more complete player over time. That's just me.

As for Bourque and Orr: One had a lengthy, amazingly consistant career and deserves to be ranked among the greatest to play the game.

The other had a short career who revolutionized the position.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Orr definitely, even in Montreal I think Orr would be the answer. Rocket Richard is more known for number 9 than Beliveau is known for his number IMO

 

[Fenway]

 

[Bruinaura]

Yes!!!

I was never all that impressed with Gretzky. Yes his ability to create offense was & is unparalleled but he didn't do anything else- no PKing and zero defense. Hell opponents couldn't even breathe on him so he had all the time & room in the world to do his thing. Plus his peak years were in the offensively wide open 1980s when defense was an afterthought for a lot of teams. Give me Orr & Howe over him 7 days a week.

I recall Gretzky could whine with the best of them. Plenty of talent but the whining was annoying.