Who wins the Rocket next year?

Who wins the Rocket


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zar

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Laine's production could go up with a better C. My understanding is he was straddled with Little for most of last year.

As to your question, if he had a more offensively inclined LWer than Hyman yes I think he would pass more and shoot less. However I don't think the goal difference would be quite as profound because he is by nature a goal scorer as much as McDavid is a natural play maker. Both do the other well but they have their natural inclinations.

Of course it could go the other way if he starts seeing time with Marner. Certainly we expect to see Matthews power play goals to rise. Assuming he and Marner form the first unit this seems inevitable. I doubt they play much even strength together but if they did, Matthews might score more.

All valid points.

IMO, while McDavid could defer more with better wingers... playing with better wingers, more team success, hopefully more offensive D corps and a certain better PP (couldn't be worse that last year... could it?), I foresee 97 with at least as many goals as last but likely a few more.

Time will tell.
 

StatisticsAddict99

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In Laine's rookie season he was 7th among goal scoring leaders with 36 goals. That year Auston Matthews was tied for 2nd with 40 goals.

My bad(not really, as the season did start in 2017, I’ve been looking ahead since May while you where likely looking ahead since March you should be best accustomed to this of all people) I meant season as the one in which just passed. Anyways love the mentioning of Matthews, to bad he couldn’t even crack the top 15 this year and was a gaping 10 Goals away from Laines 44(which wasn’t tied for at 2nd)... Better luck next year maybe.

Anyways yeah if you wanna look at a situation and brag with it without proper context and being a year late to the party go ahead, but quick question.. did you even think before posting that?...
 

LeafsNation75

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My bad(not really, as the season did start in 2017, I’ve been looking ahead since May while you where likely looking ahead since March you should be best accustomed to this of all people) I meant season as the one in which just passed. Anyways love the mentioning of Matthews, to bad he couldn’t even crack the top 15 this year and was a gaping 10 Goals away from Laines 44(which wasn’t tied for at 2nd)... Better luck next year maybe.

Anyways yeah if you wanna look at a situation and brag with it without proper context and being a year late to the party go ahead, but quick question.. did you even think before posting that?...
When you said last year I thought you meant as in the 2016-2017 season, not the 2017-2018 season which just concluded.
 

Plural

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I don't see a big difference in Laine's and Matthews goalscoring resume so far. Slight edge to Laine but that's it.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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I don't see a big difference in Laine's and Matthews goalscoring resume so far. Slight edge to Laine but that's it.
I think how they score their goals is extremely different, but in terms of actual ability they're extremely close. it's really interesting how close they are honestly
 
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StatisticsAddict99

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I don't see a big difference in Laine's and Matthews goalscoring resume so far. Slight edge to Laine but that's it.

Laine had less minutes to score goals(he had the 2nd best G/60 in the past 15 years to add that). They are both great goalscorers though, but if you give Laine more minutes with same qaulity Linemates(Ehlers and Nylander are a draw but Hyman played excellent all-around this year while for the majority of the season Little was pretty much pinning Laine and Ehlers in they’re own zone with his weak puck play) he will score more goals.
 

Plural

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Laine had less minutes to score goals(he had the 2nd best G/60 in the past 15 years to add that). They are both great goalscorers though, but if you give Laine more minutes with same qaulity Linemates(Ehlers and Nylander are a draw but Hyman played excellent all-around this year while for the majority of the season Little was pretty much pinning Laine and Ehlers in they’re own zone with his weak puck play) he will score more goals.

Maybe. I do see Laine as the more promising scorer. How it will play out remains to be seen. I was talking about numbers without context. Laine with 7th place finish (4th in gpg) and 2nd place finish (4th in gpg) and Matthews with 2nd place finish (5th in gpg) and 17th in goals (2nd in gpg).

Just judging based on those numbers they're extremely close. I think (or hope) Laine will become known as the better scorer. But so far they are neck and neck. Like CLWM said above, they score very different kind of goals but in terms of actual output are almost interchangeable. Laine's 2nd place finish is marginally more impressive than Matthews 2nd and Laine's 7th is little bit more impressive than Matthews 2nd in gpg.
 

Regal

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Laine had less minutes to score goals(he had the 2nd best G/60 in the past 15 years to add that). They are both great goalscorers though, but if you give Laine more minutes with same qaulity Linemates(Ehlers and Nylander are a draw but Hyman played excellent all-around this year while for the majority of the season Little was pretty much pinning Laine and Ehlers in they’re own zone with his weak puck play) he will score more goals.

Laine's G/60 is so high because unlike most players in his time range, he plays a ton of PP minutes on the first unit, and doesn't PK. Thus an unusually high percentage of his ice time is on the PP, where it's easier to score. Getting more ice time for him would actually mean decreasing his G/60, because he would be getting it largely 5v5, and increasing his ice time 5v5 (where he was 11th in G/60 among players with over 500 minutes) isn't likely going to increase his goal totals by much (maybe 2 or 3) Matthews had a much better G/60 5v5 (though this will likely go down due to regression in his shooting percentage), but got a minute less on the PP and usually played on the 2nd unit. There's likely more room for improvement from Matthews due to ice time due to the PP disparity.
 
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StatisticsAddict99

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Laine's G/60 is so high because unlike most players in his time range, he plays a ton of PP minutes on the first unit, and doesn't PK. Thus an unusually high percentage of his ice time is on the PP, where it's easier to score. Getting more ice time for him would actually mean decreasing his G/60, because he would be getting it largely 5v5, and increasing his ice time 5v5 (where he was 11th in G/60 among players with over 500 minutes) isn't likely going to increase his goal totals by much (maybe 2 or 3) Matthews had a much better G/60 5v5 (though this will likely go down due to regression in his shooting percentage), but got a minute less on the PP and usually played on the 2nd unit. There's likely more room for improvement from Matthews due to ice time due to the PP disparity.

Firstly, Laine is a pure sniper(that’s his motto and how he scores), snipers of his caliber are rare and when a team gets one they usually put them on the powerplay. I mean for instance Ovechkin had more than a minute more of PP minutes per game(as well as more 5v5 minutes), Kucherov and Stamkis had 30 seconds more, Boeser has 5 seconds less per game, Tarasenko had 24 more seconds more and none of them had more Goals per 60(also I’m sure there are many more goalscorers with those kind of minutes). The fact Laine has so many Goals on the PP isn’t because of his minutes he’s getting it’s the effectiveness of his shot. Matthews has a great variety of shots in his toolbox but he isn’t a sniper, he’s a wickedly effective net driver who is Elite(maybe the best, McDavid might challenge as he makes everything look easy though) at getting to the slot and finding a great shot or simple bringing it in close to the net. Laine didn’t get many chances like that this season until he left Littles line though(than he went on that 15 game point streak or what not). Look Laine could possibly get Ovie PP minutes so you shouldn’t be complaining(than his goals would probably significantly increase) but if he gets more opportunities 5v5 I’m sure he’d get many more goals as well.
 

Regal

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Firstly, Laine is a pure sniper(that’s his motto and how he scores), snipers of his caliber are rare and when a team gets one they usually put them on the powerplay. I mean for instance Ovechkin had more than a minute more of PP minutes per game(as well as more 5v5 minutes), Kucherov and Stamkis had 30 seconds more, Boeser has 5 seconds less per game, Tarasenko had 24 more seconds more and none of them had more Goals per 60(also I’m sure there are many more goalscorers with those kind of minutes). The fact Laine has so many Goals on the PP isn’t because of his minutes he’s getting it’s the effectiveness of his shot. Matthews has a great variety of shots in his toolbox but he isn’t a sniper, he’s a wickedly effective net driver who is Elite(maybe the best, McDavid might challenge as he makes everything look easy though) at getting to the slot and finding a great shot or simple bringing it in close to the net. Laine didn’t get many chances like that this season until he left Littles line though(than he went on that 15 game point streak or what not). Look Laine could possibly get Ovie PP minutes so you shouldn’t be complaining(than his goals would probably significantly increase) but if he gets more opportunities 5v5 I’m sure he’d get many more goals as well.

I never claimed Laine's goals were the result of high PP minutes I said his G/60 was high due to the ratio of PP minutes to total minutes. Of course Laine should be getting tons of PP minutes. And yes his minutes there can improve slightly, but when you already play regularly on the first unit PP and are the number 1 shooting option, there's not much more room to grow. Goals don't increase linearly with time. More PP minutes for Laine likely means staying out longer, now with the 2nd unit and possibly not even starting set up in the zone. Those are the minutes Ovechkin's getting and while he probably scores more with them, his efficiency would also go down so it wouldn't be significant. Laine just led the league with 20 PP goals. Ovechkin is arguably the best goalscorer of time with a similarly great PP shot and his career high is 25 and he's hit 20 only 3 times. It's unlikely Laine is going to see any real increase there except maybe in a spike year.

As for 5v5, it has some of the same problems with projecting G/60. More minutes also means being less fresh and perhaps playing more against better players. Even still, giving Laine another 2-3 minutes at even strength at his current G/60 would see him score another 4-5 goals.

Matthews, as you say, isn't a pure sniper, which means he might not score as much on the PP, but the point is his role on the PP has as much opportunity to expand as Laine's role at 5v5, and the PP is typically higher scoring. And while he might not be the same level of shooter, his incredible hands and shot around the net of rebounds and reflections lend themselves well to any PP. Matthews paced for 7 PP goals this year and if he takes over JVR's role, it wouldn't be surprising to see him score 11-12, which would increase his totals similarly to Laine's with more 5v5 time.

The point is they both have scored at similar paces in their careers and both have reasons to expect similar imprpvement. And the idea that Laine has more because of G/60 is extremely flawed due to the distribution of his minutes.
 
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IPS

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Laine had less minutes to score goals(he had the 2nd best G/60 in the past 15 years to add that). They are both great goalscorers though, but if you give Laine more minutes with same qaulity Linemates(Ehlers and Nylander are a draw but Hyman played excellent all-around this year while for the majority of the season Little was pretty much pinning Laine and Ehlers in they’re own zone with his weak puck play) he will score more goals.
Why do you proclaim this and ignore the glaring discrepancy in PP time?

Reeks of bias and agenda.
 

StatisticsAddict99

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Why do you proclaim this and ignore the glaring discrepancy in PP time?

Reeks of bias and agenda.

Because the fact that Laine isn’t hogging PP time. In fact he’s 57th in total PowerPlay minutes around the league(meaning atleast 57 more players have more PowerPlay minutes), it’s not Laines fault he’s the most efficient goal scorer on the powerplay(which somewhat similar to Ovechkin, you know the best Goalscorer of all-time so don’t start coming in here saying PowerPlay goals done matter) and Babcock doesn’t trust Matthews on the PowerPlay for long periods of time(you can argue it’s more effective, but when you do that remember what team had more wins, Points and made it further in the playoffs, so you’d be kind of wrong if you did argue that).

The fact your to lazy to look up stats reeks BS...
 

IPS

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Because the fact that Laine isn’t hogging PP time. In fact he’s 57th in total PowerPlay minutes around the league(meaning atleast 57 more players have more PowerPlay minutes), it’s not Laines fault he’s the most efficient goal scorer on the powerplay(which somewhat similar to Ovechkin, you know the best Goalscorer of all-time so don’t start coming in here saying PowerPlay goals done matter) and Babcock doesn’t trust Matthews on the PowerPlay for long periods of time(you can argue it’s more effective, but when you do that remember what team had more wins, Points and made it further in the playoffs, so you’d be kind of wrong if you did argue that).

The fact your to lazy to look up stats reeks BS...
I can use your exact same logic to say that Maurice clearly doesn't trust Laine with prime ES minutes with Scheifele.

LMAO
 

StatisticsAddict99

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I can use your exact same logic to say that Maurice clearly doesn't trust Laine with prime ES minutes with Scheifele.

LMAO

Thing is the guy ahead of him is a all-around vet who had 91 Points this season, when was the last time a Leaf Forward even had 80? I mean heck I wasn’t even born the last time the Leafs had a 90+ point scorer. To add on to that have you ever heard of scoring depth, maybe it’s the reason why the Jets have had more points than your favourite teams all-time record(so scoring depth seemed to work and also to add the Jets has the best scoring trio in the league with Connor, Ehlers and Laine).

All I’m saying is if Matthews had a 200ft player who consistently grazes a PPG and has a 91 point season, he’d more than likely be the line up on Matthews as well...

Anyways my logic, is just that logic...

LMAO, keep digging that hole deeper bud.
 

IPS

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Thing is the guy ahead of him is a all-around vet who had 91 Points this season, when was the last time a Leaf Forward even had 80? I mean heck I wasn’t even born the last time the Leafs had a 90+ point scorer. To add on to that have you ever heard of scoring depth, maybe it’s the reason why the Jets have had more points than your favourite teams all-time record(so scoring depth seemed to work and also to add the Jets has the best scoring trio in the league with Connor, Ehlers and Laine).

All I’m saying is if Matthews had a 200ft player who consistently grazes a PPG and has a 91 point season, he’d more than likely be the line up on Matthews as well...

Anyways my logic, is just that logic...

LMAO, keep digging that hole deeper bud.
Was Laine not on the top line last season? Did Scheifele not put up higher point totals last year too?

Fact of the matter is, Maurice doesn't trust Laine defensively despite bringing his offensive game to the top line. That is why Laine can't crack the top line. I really do think the Jets should have changed up the lines in the Vegas series though, a Scheifele-Laine combination might have been what was needed to crack Fleury on a consistent basis. Oh well that's all done with now - they got humiliated by an expansion team in 5 games.
 

X66

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Laine had less minutes to score goals(he had the 2nd best G/60 in the past 15 years to add that). They are both great goalscorers though, but if you give Laine more minutes with same qaulity Linemates(Ehlers and Nylander are a draw but Hyman played excellent all-around this year while for the majority of the season Little was pretty much pinning Laine and Ehlers in they’re own zone with his weak puck play) he will score more goals.

Laine actually has the best position out of any goal scorer in the league IMO.

He's a very good player no doubt, but he gets to hide in a line-up, and play huge minutes on a stacked PP. That IMO goes a long way as well.

Truth is, you don't want him to be in Matthews situation just yet, Laine has had it much easier, which is a credit to the Jets roster.

For example, in the regular season these were the forwards that both players played the most with:

For Laine:
Ehlers 677:06 total
Little 504:00 total
Wheeler 485:18 total
Connor 344:00 total
Stastny 269:18 total
Scheifele 237:19 total (Would be much higher if he wasn't injured)

For Matthews
Nylander 890:37 total
Hyman 821:52 total
Brown 187:46 total
Marleau 165:46 total
Marner 86:16 total
Komarov 64:22 total
JVR 38:45 total

If you want to look at the playoffs

For Laine
Stastny 271:40 total
Ehlers 156:39 total
Scheifele 77:31 total
Wheeler 65:01 total

For Matthews
Hyman 75:55 total
Nylander 65:50 total
Brown 31:00 total
Marleau 30:31 total

So what i'm saying is, there is so much context missing between both of their situation, Laine gets way more help than Matthews, yet the goal scoring is similar. That is a huge compliment to Matthews IMHO.
 

StatisticsAddict99

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Was Laine not on the top line last season? Did Scheifele not put up higher point totals last year too?

Fact of the matter is, Maurice doesn't trust Laine defensively despite bringing his offensive game to the top line. That is why Laine can't crack the top line. I really do think the Jets should have changed up the lines in the Vegas series though, a Scheifele-Laine combination might have been what was needed to crack Fleury on a consistent basis. Oh well that's all done with now - they got humiliated by an expansion team in 5 games.

Yes and yes, but Maurice wanted to give Wheeler Top line minutes cause his overall game is better as I’ve already stated. I did agree with you on that Vegas part too(Maurice should ahould had put thought into making a big change like that but those where the lines all season). Point is Laine isn’t gonna leap frog someone who was one of the best Wjnngwrs before he came into the league and only got better since.


Laine actually has the best position out of any goal scorer in the league IMO.

He's a very good player no doubt, but he gets to hide in a line-up, and play huge minutes on a stacked PP. That IMO goes a long way as well.

Truth is, you don't want him to be in Matthews situation just yet, Laine has had it much easier, which is a credit to the Jets roster.

For example, in the regular season these were the forwards that both players played the most with:

For Laine:
Ehlers 677:06 total
Little 504:00 total
Wheeler 485:18 total
Connor 344:00 total
Stastny 269:18 total
Scheifele 237:19 total (Would be much higher if he wasn't injured)

For Matthews
Nylander 890:37 total
Hyman 821:52 total
Brown 187:46 total
Marleau 165:46 total
Marner 86:16 total
Komarov 64:22 total
JVR 38:45 total

If you want to look at the playoffs

For Laine
Stastny 271:40 total
Ehlers 156:39 total
Scheifele 77:31 total
Wheeler 65:01 total

For Matthews
Hyman 75:55 total
Nylander 65:50 total
Brown 31:00 total
Marleau 30:31 total

So what i'm saying is, there is so much context missing between both of their situation, Laine gets way more help than Matthews, yet the goal scoring is similar. That is a huge compliment to Matthews IMHO.

How does he hide in the lineup? :huh:
Coaches aren’t stupid, I’ve watched the Jets all season and Laine rarely faces anything worse than the 2nd lines/Pairings so don’t act as if he plays 4th line plugs 5v5.




To your next part there Laine is the largest reason why that PowerPlay is so stacked, last year it was pretty much the same thing and the difference was they where not even league average in that department as Laine wasn’t on the first unit. Also he doesn’t have huge minutes(he’s 57th in the league in PP minutes), Matthews just has a relatively short amount of PP minutes.


Truth is I’d love for Laine to have higher 5v5 minutes, he hasn’t had anything much easy all year, he wasn’t on a joy ride, he lead the Jets in total goals and 5v5 goals with limited 5v5 minutes, this is assumption that he had it easy and was leeching off of a successful team is an awful one because he was the 2nd biggest contributor amongst the players last season.

All those minutes are bunched up with PP/5v5 lines, Laine hasn’t touched Scheifeles 5v5 line once this season, so your complaining about me ignoring context and you go ahead and hypocritically do the same.

I still don’t see how Laine gets any help by getting average superstar PowerPlay(that’s more so Babcocks fault, maybe he doesn’t trust him there) minutes and having a lack of 5v5 minutes beside a really bad Center for a majority of the season while Matthews got many more 5v5 minutes inbetween a Ehlers(pretty much weaker) like Winger and a very good 2-way winger who makes Matthews look better defensively(Hyman, who is extremely underrated overall as a player).
 

LemonSauceD

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Why do you proclaim this and ignore the glaring discrepancy in PP time?

Reeks of bias and agenda.
I don't necessarily disagree with your point about Matthews and his ability to score a lot of 5V5 goals. But 56 goals... that hasn't been accomplished in ages. If you said anywhere around 40-45 goals I would believe you, but there's nothing about Matthews that suggests he'll become a 50 goal scorer, let alone that 56 goal mark you are talking about.

Maybe relax, calm down, and release the foot off the pedal. No one is denying Matthews's goal scoring ability, you are being confrontational over nothing.
 

X66

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Yes and yes, but Maurice wanted to give Wheeler Top line minutes cause his overall game is better as I’ve already stated. I did agree with you on that Vegas part too(Maurice should ahould had put thought into making a big change like that but those where the lines all season). Point is Laine isn’t gonna leap frog someone who was one of the best Wjnngwrs before he came into the league and only got better since.




How does he hide in the lineup? :huh:
Coaches aren’t stupid, I’ve watched the Jets all season and Laine rarely faces anything worse than the 2nd lines/Pairings so don’t act as if he plays 4th line plugs 5v5.




To your next part there Laine is the largest reason why that PowerPlay is so stacked, last year it was pretty much the same thing and the difference was they where not even league average in that department as Laine wasn’t on the first unit. Also he doesn’t have huge minutes(he’s 57th in the league in PP minutes), Matthews just has a relatively short amount of PP minutes.


Truth is I’d love for Laine to have higher 5v5 minutes, he hasn’t had anything much easy all year, he wasn’t on a joy ride, he lead the Jets in total goals and 5v5 goals with limited 5v5 minutes, this is assumption that he had it easy and was leeching off of a successful team is an awful one because he was the 2nd biggest contributor amongst the players last season.

All those minutes are bunched up with PP/5v5 lines, Laine hasn’t touched Scheifeles 5v5 line once this season, so your complaining about me ignoring context and you go ahead and hypocritically do the same.

I still don’t see how Laine gets any help by getting average superstar PowerPlay(that’s more so Babcocks fault, maybe he doesn’t trust him there) minutes and having a lack of 5v5 minutes beside a really bad Center for a majority of the season while Matthews got many more 5v5 minutes inbetween a Ehlers(pretty much weaker) like Winger and a very good 2-way winger who makes Matthews look better defensively(Hyman, who is extremely underrated overall as a player).

I don’t think you understand what I posted and followed up with a long winded post not addressing anything.

Laine can be hidden in the line up because he’s not the go to forward on his team, he’s behind Wheeler and Scheifele. And you mentioned 2nd pairings and not shut down lines, that’s huge. Guys like Ovechkin, Matthews, McDavid are the go to guys on their team so that is who opposing teams focus on.

I stated those numbers were total, and that is important. Laine plays with plenty of talent so you’re linemate argument falls a bit short.

Maurice has done a great job with him and the jets roster after being so unfairly attacked.

He helps laine a ton, and anyone that argues that he’s played with worse players overall than Matthews is out to lunch
 

McDavidCrushedLarkin

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Was Laine not on the top line last season? Did Scheifele not put up higher point totals last year too?

Fact of the matter is, Maurice doesn't trust Laine defensively despite bringing his offensive game to the top line. That is why Laine can't crack the top line. I really do think the Jets should have changed up the lines in the Vegas series though, a Scheifele-Laine combination might have been what was needed to crack Fleury on a consistent basis. Oh well that's all done with now - they got humiliated by an expansion team in 5 games.

Better than their best player choking hard and getting humiliated in the 1st round.
 
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