Who will have the better career? Moritz Seider vs Adam Fox?

[HugeInTheShire]

Why is Quinn Hughes in this? That guy is a pylon.

He's there because he's a highly thought of and over rated Defenseman... Therefore should get votes

 

[Hockeyholic]

Fox will put up more points, but Seider is going to be wearing an A or a C for most of his career, be face of the franchise in Detroit, be the backbone of every German national team for the next 15 years (together with Drai and Stuzle), and I believe he will be more influential in a team's overall success.

And by no means do I think it's impossible that Seider is a Norris nominee within 3 years (although he won't have the luxury of doing it in a shortened season while only beating up on 3-4 teams over and over).

What's that have to do with who will be better though?

 

[Lays]

He's literally been a fantastic player in DEL, AHL, SHL, WJC and WHC. You'd be hard pressed to find a more proven 20 year old, with more of a track record of performance. He actually has more games at a pro level than Fox, despite being 3 years younger. He also has more experience in a leadership role, more experience in playoff do-or-die type games, has been better at every international level.

Yes, he hasn't played in the NHL. Neither had Fox at the same age. Who knows if Seider will hit the ground running or not. Maybe he struggles for a year or two, but betting against him at this point; that's what's dumb.

Betting on Fox over Seider is dumb? I’ve truly seen it all

 

[Pavels Dog]

What's that have to do with who will be better though?

"Who will have the better career"

Imo many things play into who has a better career. You selectively didn't bold the part about being more influential in team success. That's hard to measure, but all indications point to Seider being that kind of player who makes everyone around him better.
When predicting career, I think it's foolish to just look at "who put up the most points this season". I think about who is a presence on the ice, who is the type of person that finds success anywhere they go. Seider will likely be a leader in Detroit, but even if he went to another team I think he would continue to have success, it just doesn't seem to matter where he plays, in what situation, what team, what role. Fox? He can only play for one team. What happens if he has a falling out with the Rangers? Will he get up for international play? Is he someone you lean on during playoffs? Will he wear a letter and be someone you build around? Maybe, I just don't see the same strong signs as with Seider.
And all that is kind of beyond the on-ice impact, where I think Seider will overall be more impactful.

 

[Hockeyholic]

"Who will have the better career"

Imo many things play into who has a better career. You selectively didn't bold the part about being more influential in team success. That's hard to measure, but all indications point to Seider being that kind of player who makes everyone around him better.
When predicting career, I think it's foolish to just look at "who put up the most points this season". I think about who is a presence on the ice, who is the type of person that finds success anywhere they go. Seider will likely be a leader in Detroit, but even if he went to another team I think he would continue to have success, it just doesn't seem to matter where he plays, in what situation, what team, what role. Fox? He can only play for one team. What happens if he has a falling out with the Rangers? Will he get up for international play? Is he someone you lean on during playoffs? Will he wear a letter and be someone you build around? Maybe, I just don't see the same strong signs as with Seider.
And all that is kind of beyond the on-ice impact, where I think Seider will overall be more impactful.

Seider is all potential. He's not done anything.

There's nothing he projects to be good at that Fox isn't already excelling at.

This is an odd poll because it's comparing potential to reality. What could be vs what is.

 

[Machinehead]

99% of prospects don't become as good as Fox already is.

It's possible but Fox is the correct choice in terms of playing the odds.

We were told Kakko and Lafreniere were automatic franchise players too -and they still could be- but going to the NHL isn't as easy as people think it is, unless you're Crosby/McDavid

 

[rangersfansince08]

99% of prospects don't become as good as Fox already is.

It's possible but Fox is the correct choice in terms of playing the odds.

We were told Kakko and Lafreniere were automatic franchise players too -and they still could be- but going to the NHL isn't as easy as people think it is, unless you're Crosby/McDavid

But Seider could be Bobby Orr. Fox is not as good as Bobby Orr. So therefore Seider > Fox. Seider has Bobby Orr potential. Fox has proven he doesn't

 

[Machinehead]

But Seider could be Bobby Orr. Fox is not as good as Bobby Orr. So therefore Seider > Fox. Seider has Bobby Orr potential. Fox has proven he doesn't

Fox is 23 and defensemen peak at like 28. I wouldn't assume he's done.

Especially since we've had bad coaching that actively harms defensemen his whole time there. Miller fell off the face of the Earth after ten games here. Trouba isn't what he was. Jones played ten games on the fly and was great. There seems to be a pattern there. Fox can get even better.

Somebody did a piece last year on how Fox should have won the Calder because the Rangers have been quicksand for defensemen for several years.

 

[The S5]

Who said anything about the Fox narrative though?
The defensive monster narrative of Seider at his young age against men is already legendary.

Like I said it’s no slight to Fox who obviously is ahead of him right now but the future for Seider looks so impressive.

Watched Seider in the Worlds. Didn't look all that legendary.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Fox is 23 and defensemen peak at like 28. I wouldn't assume he's done.

Especially since we've had bad coaching that actively harms defensemen his whole time there. Miller fell off the face of the Earth after ten games here. Trouba isn't what he was. Jones played ten games on the fly and was great. There seems to be a pattern there. Fox can get even better.

Well his stats should have been even better if Zibby wasn't missing everything early on in the season and Panarin didn't miss like 1/5 of the season. he could have easily had 10-15 more assists on the power play.

 

[Machinehead]

Well his stats should have been even better if Zibby wasn't missing everything early on in the season and Panarin didn't miss like 1/5 of the season. he could have easily had 10-15 more assists on the power play.

Underlying numbers said he was the best PPQB in the league at a time where he barely had any points. He should have had more like 55-60.

 

[wetcoast]

You are essentially saying Seider is much taller than Fox, so you think he will be better defensively and because of that you’d rather build around him.

Has there not been a long line of players who were slightly undersized that were still able to be elite in all parts of the game? Detroit fans would know about that with players like Datsyuk, Yzerman, Lidstrom. How can we ignore results? Fox gets better results than other players. Point totals aren’t even relevant.

Well no I didn't say that but rather you implied it.

What I will say is some people are misreading the poll question here.

It’s not who is the better player right now but rather who will have the better career.

Given his age and what he has done and the age he has done it it, I’m taking Seider.

If both these guys were the same age or even a year apart it would be one thing but the age gap is huge.

The overall talent and impact gap isn’t.

 

[wetcoast]

But Seider could be Bobby Orr. Fox is not as good as Bobby Orr. So therefore Seider > Fox. Seider has Bobby Orr potential. Fox has proven he doesn't

Perhaps you can reference the poster in this thread that made this claim?

Or heck even anything close to it even?

 

[wetcoast]

Watched Seider in the Worlds. Didn't look all that legendary.

My bad it must have been a different 20 year old Seider who won the best Dman award.

 

[Captain97]

I've really liked Seider since his draft year, so him.

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.