Who will have the better career? Moritz Seider vs Adam Fox?

[GermanSpitfire]

Who will have the better career?

Click to read more...

 

[Lays]

Peak HFBoards. A defenseman with 0 NHL games played already has 3 of the first 11 votes over a defenseman who in his sophomore year was nominated for the Norris. Red Wings will be lucky if Seider ever reaches Fox’s level right now offensively or defensively

 

[rangersfansince08]

Peak HFBoards. A defenseman with 0 NHL games played already has 3 of the first 11 votes over a defenseman who in his sophomore year was nominated for the Norris. Red Wings will be lucky if Seider ever reaches Fox’s level right now offensively or defensively

Haven't you heard Seider is the best defenseman not in the NHL? That means more than just being nominated for being the best defenseman in the NHL.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Fox will put up more points, but Seider is going to be wearing an A or a C for most of his career, be face of the franchise in Detroit, be the backbone of every German national team for the next 15 years (together with Drai and Stuzle), and I believe he will be more influential in a team's overall success.

And by no means do I think it's impossible that Seider is a Norris nominee within 3 years (although he won't have the luxury of doing it in a shortened season while only beating up on 3-4 teams over and over).

 

[wetcoast]

Peak HFBoards. A defenseman with 0 NHL games played already has 3 of the first 11 votes over a defenseman who in his sophomore year was nominated for the Norris. Red Wings will be lucky if Seider ever reaches Fox’s level right now offensively or defensively

Fox is the easy answer with points but the OP is talking career and Seider just won the top Dman at the WC and looks like a defensive monster already.

Nothing against Fox but Seider is my choice here and it’s not based on hype but performance so far and age.

 

[Kravtsov420]

No offense, but the way Adam Fox controls the game is second to Panarin on the team. He was arguably the reason the Rangers almost got into the playoffs.
Adam Fox will wear an A at one point no doubt so I don’t understand the whole leadership argument as well.

People still don’t understand that he’s not just a point machine, he is one of the best defensemen at playing defense in the game ALREADY. In his second season in the NHL.

Lot of ifs ands or buts with Moritz. People like the idea of their prospect and the hope around them reaching their potential, I get it. But it’s not reality in this case. Not saying Moritz can’t become like this, but Adam Fox IS this.

 

[Kravtsov420]

Fox is the easy answer with points but the OP is talking career and Seider just won the top Dman at the WC and looks like a defensive monster already.

Nothing against Fox but Seider is my choice here and it’s not based on hype but performance so far and age.

Go look at Adam Fox’s defensive stats and you’ll see the “only good offensively” narrative is so wrong it’s ridiculous.

 

[Volica]

I don’t think Seider will ever have a season like Fox just did, for what that’s worth.

 

[bigdog16]

Fox will put up more points, but Seider is going to be wearing an A or a C for most of his career, be face of the franchise in Detroit, be the backbone of every German national team for the next 15 years (together with Drai and Stuzle), and I believe he will be more influential in a team's overall success.

And by no means do I think it's impossible that Seider is a Norris nominee within 3 years (although he won't have the luxury of doing it in a shortened season while only beating up on 3-4 teams over and over).

Lol playing against Boston, NYI, Washington, Pittsburgh, and Philly all year isnt exactly a luxury...

 

[sebsisles]

It's Fox right now, Seider looks like a great prospect but Fox is already a Norris candidate.

 

[wetcoast]

Go look at Adam Fox’s defensive stats and you’ll see the “only good offensively” narrative is so wrong it’s ridiculous.

Who said anything about the Fox narrative though?
The defensive monster narrative of Seider at his young age against men is already legendary.

Like I said it’s no slight to Fox who obviously is ahead of him right now but the future for Seider looks so impressive.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Lol playing against Boston, NYI, Washington, Pittsburgh, and Philly all year isnt exactly a luxury...

Most of his points were against Philly, Jersey and Boston; aka the 3 worst defensive teams in the league.

edit: Buffalo lol. Not Boston.

 

[82Ninety42011]

I take the guaranteed stud over the potential stud right now.

 

[NotLeddy]

Most of his points were against Philly, Jersey and Boston; aka the 3 worst defensive teams in the league.

Boston was the one of the best defensive teams in the league this season... only Colorado and Dallas were better.

There's no reason Seider can't reach Fox's level but if you're going to try to discredit what he did this season... at least say things that aren't completely false? Did you just not watch much Boston this season or do you have no clue how good McAvoy/Grzlyck are?

 

[CupInSIX]

Most of his points were against Philly, Jersey and Boston; aka the 3 worst defensive teams in the league.

I think you mean Buffalo.

 

[Lays]

Fox is the easy answer with points but the OP is talking career and Seider just won the top Dman at the WC and looks like a defensive monster already.

Nothing against Fox but Seider is my choice here and it’s not based on hype but performance so far and age.

Seider looks like a defensive monster sure but Fox literally already is a defensive monster

 

[Lays]

Most of his points were against Philly, Jersey and Boston; aka the 3 worst defensive teams in the league.

No way you’re acting like Philly and Boston are bottom of the barrel teams to push your narrative.

 

[wetcoast]

Most of his points were against Philly, Jersey and Boston; aka the 3 worst defensive teams in the league.

You meant Buffalo and yes this is correct.

Fox is an excellent Dman but here is his line against those 3 teams.

25- 2-28-30 plus 17

He also did very well against Pittsburg and Washington who were middle of the road defensive teams last year.

His numbers against the NYI and Boston not so good but I doubt anyone has good numbers against those 2 teams either.

 

[Lays]

Fox will put up more points, but Seider is going to be wearing an A or a C for most of his career, be face of the franchise in Detroit, be the backbone of every German national team for the next 15 years (together with Drai and Stuzle), and I believe he will be more influential in a team's overall success.

And by no means do I think it's impossible that Seider is a Norris nominee within 3 years (although he won't have the luxury of doing it in a shortened season while only beating up on 3-4 teams over and over).

Only beating up on 3-4 teams over and over despite being almost on the same level his rookie year and still putting up 45 points playing PP2 against the entire league

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

You meant Buffalo and yes this is correct.

Fox is an excellent Dman but here is his line against those 3 teams.

25- 2-28-30 plus 17

He also did very well against Pittsburg and Washington who were middle of the road defensive teams last year.

His numbers against the NYI and Boston not so good but I doubt anyone has good numbers against those 2 teams either.

So against Pittsburgh, Washington, NYI and Boston he did this.

30-3-14-17 plus 2

That's not nearly as impressive. Still good, but not domination.

I'm not trying to diminish Fox who is a terrific defenseman, but he really feasted on shit teams. I think when things get back to normal we'll see Fox still be a top 10 or top 15 defenseman in the league and be amongst the top 10 in defense scoring, but with more games against top teams his scoring average might take a dip.

 

[wetcoast]

Seider looks like a defensive monster sure but Fox literally already is a defensive monster

Serious question here, what’s the first thing that comes to mind when people are discussing Fox?

It’s not defensive monster.

Not saying that he isn't good defensively at all, he is very good but his stats, ie counting stats are what drives his narrative first and foremost.

Seider also has demonstrated elite success against men in the AHL, Sweden and the WC’s at an extremely young age.

He will never have the counting stats of Fox but then again his game and narrative will be different.

In as little as 2 years Seider will be “better” than Fox, ie the guy teams would want to build around more regardless of age IMO.

 

[Lays]

Serious question here, what’s the first thing that comes to mind when people are discussing Fox?

It’s not defensive monster.

Not saying that he isn't good defensively at all, he is very good but his stats, ie counting stats are what drives his narrative first and foremost.

Seider also has demonstrated elite success against men in the AHL, Sweden and the WC’s at an extremely young age.

He will never have the counting stats of Fox but then again his game and narrative will be different.

In as little as 2 years Seider will be “better” than Fox, ie the guy teams would want to build around more regardless of age IMO.

Fox this past season was top 3 defensively and offensively in the NHL. Who cares if Fox isn’t seen as a defensive monster? Seider hasn’t proven anything. You’d be dumb to take Seider going forward

 

[Kravtsov420]

It’s insane to think Fox is still underrated after being nominated for a Norris trophy in his second year, but here we are. People saying that he wouldn’t be chosen to build around clearly just don’t know about this kid. Straight up, he wouldn’t be traded 1 for 1 for Jack Eichel (before learning about the injuries). Not sure the same could be said for Moritz.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Fox this past season was top 3 defensively and offensively in the NHL. Who cares if Fox isn’t seen as a defensive monster? Seider hasn’t proven anything. You’d be dumb to take Seider going forward

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[wetcoast]

Fox this past season was top 3 defensively and offensively in the NHL. Who cares if Fox isn’t seen as a defensive monster? Seider hasn’t proven anything. You’d be dumb to take Seider going forward

I’m guessing you are going to bring out some analytical stats to show the top 3 defensively?

As I have already outlined he really beat up on 3 weak teams, did really well against 2 meh defensive teams and had a 16-1-2-3 minus 6 line against Boston and NYI.

part of the Norris no imagination is a COVID year thing and he didn’ t have a single game outside of his time zone.

Yes he had a “ great “ season but there are some special reasons for that and in normal years he will be a top 10- 15 Dman.

Also yes I’m “dumb” for taking Seider but I also pointed out the reasons why.

If you only want to look on the surface and not deal with everything that’s fine but it’s not a good look.