Who was the most effective pest for the Rangers?

[Machinehead]

Tik was a complete player, Avery was not. Avery played for himself, Tik played for the team, it's why he had such a long career because teams actually wanted him. There's no cup bias, he was a complete player who took on shut down roles, if there's any bias in the thread it's recency bias. The two players arent even close as to what they could do on the ice.

I think there's just misremembering of Avery's first stint here.

Like I said, other than Lundqvist, I struggle to remember a Ranger more loved since the lockout, albeit for a very short time.

Doesn't sound like a guy who was considered not a team player.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

For f***s' sake man. We're not talking about the full careers of either player.

Guess how many times Tikkanen ranked top-3 for the Selke as a Ranger?

I believe the point is that he was a complete player compared to avery who was not.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think there's just misremembering of Avery's first stint here.

Like I said, other than Lundqvist, I struggle to remember a Ranger more loved since the lockout, albeit for a very short time.

Doesn't sound like a guy who was considered not a team player.

By fans maybe, teammates and coaches, not so much.

 

[Tawnos]

I think there's just misremembering of Avery's first stint here.

Like I said, other than Lundqvist, I struggle to remember a Ranger more loved since the lockout, albeit for a very short time.

Doesn't sound like a guy who was considered not a team player.

And I think his impact on the team would've lasted longer if the Rangers had hired a different personality type than Tortorella in 09. Tortorella imbued his personality on the team, and by 10-11 Avery's type of game no longer stood out. Callahan, Dubinsky, and Prust were playing the high energy rough and tumble too, without the antics that rubbed Torts the wrong way. Ultimately, it was for the better. I just wonder how Avery's career might have gone in NY with a different coach.

 

[Machinehead]

By fans maybe, teammates and coaches, not so much.

Again, in his first stint, I don't think this was true.

We would have been very happy to keep Avery if the Stars didn't throw a very fat contract at him. So the whole "nobody wanted Avery" narrative is quite a bit of revisionist history.

 

[Machinehead]

And I think his impact on the team would've lasted longer if the Rangers had hired a different personality type than Tortorella in 09. Tortorella imbued his personality on the team, and by 10-11 Avery's type of game no longer stood out. Callahan, Dubinsky, and Prust were playing the high energy rough and tumble too. Ultimately, it was for the better. I just wonder how Avery's career might have gone in NY with a different coach.

Yeah, for sure.

On the Renney teams, he stood out and gave them something they lacked. By 2012, he was just another guy.

The fact that we pretty much modeled our team after the way he played should tell you something.

The more ridiculous off-ice stuff was after he was on the Rangers, and like I've been saying all along, I think there's some heavy conflation between that and his first stint here. In '07 and '08 he was more like a Callahan/Dubinsky/Prust type which again, we modeled an entire well-liked team after.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, for sure.

On the Renney teams, he stood out and gave them something they lacked. By 2012, he was just another guy.

The fact that we pretty much modeled our team after the way he played should tell you something.

The more ridiculous off-ice stuff was after he was on the Rangers, and like I've seen saying all along, I think there's some heavy conflation between that and his first stint here. In '07 and '08 he was more like a Callahan/Dubinsky/Prust type which again, we modeled an entire well-liked team after.

And none of that even gets into how Avery was disparaged publicly by Tortorella when Tortorella was a commentator before being hired by the Rangers, so I think there was some pre-judgment that made its way into the locker room. It's one of the most ironic things of that whole time period, since Tortorella is basically the Sean Avery of head coaches.

 

[Machinehead]

And none of that even gets into how Avery was disparaged publicly by Tortorella when Tortorella was a commentator before being hired by the Rangers, so I think there was some pre-judgment that made its way into the locker room. It's one of the most ironic things of that whole time period, since Tortorella is basically the Sean Avery of head coaches.

Yeah, definitely get "this town innit big enough for the two of us" vibes from those two.

 

[Tawnos]

Here's the with and without stat I was looking for. For the three years of 06-07, 07-08, 08-09... the Rangers record was

With: 61-26-17 = 0.668 P% = 109 pts in a regular season
Without: 66-64-12 = 0.507 P% = 83 pts in a regular season

In other words, with Sean Avery in those three years, the team's record competes for first in the conference and maybe even the President's Trophy. Without him, they miss the playoffs by 10 points and get a top-10 draft pick.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Here's the with and without stat I was looking for. For the three years of 06-07, 07-08, 08-09... the Rangers record was

With: 61-26-17 = 0.668 P% = 109 pts in a regular season
Without: 66-64-12 = 0.507 P% = 83 pts in a regular season

In other words, with Sean Avery in those three years, the team's record competes for first in the conference and maybe even the President's Trophy. Without him, they miss the playoffs by 10 points and get a top-10 draft pick.

Somebody is drinking the Avery Kool Aid lol. Edmonton didn’t win a Cup since Esa left Edmonton too. Maybe Joe Kocur should have his jersey raised next to Mark Messier’s too as the team won the Cup in 94 with him and haven’t won the Cup since he left.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I can't imagine a more effective pest than Sean Avery was for the NYR. Honestly, he made a notable difference, game in and game out. I never truly appreciated just how much one single pest can truly change the outcome of games and seasons. Avery did that.

 

[Zoot Love]

The debate became who is a better pest to who is a better player. I don't think anyone would take Avery's career over Tikkanen. Avery is arguably the most hated player to ever play the game, Tikkanen is not. Avery all day.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The debate became who is a better pest to who is a better player. I don't think anyone would take Avery's career over Tikkanen. Avery is arguably the most hated player to ever play the game, Tikkanen is not. Avery all day.

Isn't part of being a good pest being a good player? Someone who could do more than just get under the skin of an opposing player? Someone who could get an opposing team's player off his game with either tight defensive play, finishing every check on him and goading him into penalties? Even sweeter if you could score a goal on the ensuing power play.

Avery might be the most hated guy to ever play the game. But that's not the job description. And he doesn't hold a candle to guys like Ciccarelli, C Lemieux, Hunter or even Fleury.

 

[True Blue]

Isn't part of being a good pest being a good player? Someone who could do more than just get under the skin of an opposing player? Someone who could get an opposing team's player off his game with either tight defensive play, finishing every check on him and goading him into penalties? Even sweeter if you could score a goal on the ensuing power play.

Avery might be the most hated guy to ever play the game. But that's not the job description. And he doesn't hold a candle to guys like Ciccarelli, C Lemieux, Hunter or even Fleury.

And career wise, he does not even hold a candle to a Barnaby or even a Keith Acton.

 

[Zoot Love]

Isn't part of being a good pest being a good player? Someone who could do more than just get under the skin of an opposing player? Someone who could get an opposing team's player off his game with either tight defensive play, finishing every check on him and goading him into penalties? Even sweeter if you could score a goal on the ensuing power play.

Avery might be the most hated guy to ever play the game. But that's not the job description. And he doesn't hold a candle to guys like Ciccarelli, C Lemieux, Hunter or even Fleury.

Sure. A lot of which Avery did do in his time here.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Sure. A lot of which Avery did do in his time here.

Avery was never a very good offensive player (and underrated one, yes) and you'd never consider him good defensive player. So, you're using some rose colored glasses here.

The effect he had on this team when he was first acquired was astounding. And his first spell here was by and large good. But let's not make him out to be more than he was.

 

[Raspewtin]

It's weird times when I would agree that Avery is underrated by Rangers fans.

 

[chosen]

If the criteria is getting under other's skin, Ulf Samuelsson.

 

[Zoot Love]

Avery was never a very good offensive player (and underrated one, yes) and you'd never consider him good defensive player. So, you're using some rose colored glasses here.

The effect he had on this team when he was first acquired was astounding. And his first spell here was by and large good. But let's not make him out to be more than he was.

You listed criteria for what a pest is and Avery did all of it except for the tight defensive play. But let's be honest, when people think of agitating players how well they played defensively does not hold as much weight as a guy drawing penalties, how he throws the other team's stars off their game, hits, fighting, if the rule book is adjusted for them, things of that nature. Just because I think Avery was better than Tikkanen at those things and more hated than anybody else to ever play, does not mean I think he is more than what he was. I will always say Tikkanen is the better player, but that's not the question.

 

[cwede]

a guy with offensive and center skill, who wasn't NYR for very long,
who also could agitate and distract the opposition:
Derek Sanderson

 

[Thordic]

Lots of recency bias here. Barnaby deserves more credit. Skill-wise, they were probably around equal. Maybe a slight advantage to Avery. Barnaby was a massive pest though, just a different style. Avery was more mean and douchey, Barnaby just never shut up.

Avery was in a great situation. A good team where he could draw attention and make a difference.

Barnaby was at least as annoying, but he played on bad teams where it didn't matter how many penalties he drew because the team sucked. His crap-eating grin alone drove players crazy.

Prust doesn't belong with these two - he was a good pest but Avery and Barnaby were on a different level. And as others noted, Tikkanen deserves to be here. The man was a legendary pest, in a similar mold to Barnaby where just never shut up.

 

[True Blue]

His crap-eating grin alone drove players crazy.

Again, if you want to see how good Barnaby was at driving the opposition crazy, just look at the Lyle Odelien incident.

 

[Fitzy]

Pat Verbeek write-in

 

[NYSPORTS]

Avery might be the most hated guy to ever play the game. But that's not the job description. And he doesn't hold a candle to guys like Ciccarelli, C Lemieux, Hunter or even Fleury.

+1 - let’s add Linseman too from the past while Brad Marchand fit the role perfectly. All those mentioned played the role better than Avery.

 

[its josh]

Avery is getting under the skin of Rangers fan in a thread almost 10 years after he last played for the team. Clear winner.