JUUUUUUUUUU

[VanIslander]

The last truly stand-up great goalie I recall is Arturs Irbe.

 

[Big Phil]

Since Brodeur was a hybrid of both stand up and butterfly (honestly, to this day I can't even make a name for the style he played) I would have to say him. He had smaller than normal pads, would stack the pads for a save if he had to, would challenge the shooter and stand up against him on the rush and relied on that stuff as well as his reflexes more than just blocking the puck based on percentages. I have no idea why goalies of the younger generation didn't model their games after him more.

 

[Beerfish]

This thread grieves me greatly. I detest what goaltending has become at all level of hockey.

 

[Hynh]

Since Brodeur was a hybrid of both stand up and butterfly (honestly, to this day I can't even make a name for the style he played) I would have to say him. He had smaller than normal pads, would stack the pads for a save if he had to, would challenge the shooter and stand up against him on the rush and relied on that stuff as well as his reflexes more than just blocking the puck based on percentages. I have no idea why goalies of the younger generation didn't model their games after him more.

I blame coaches. Having a goalie that "makes the saves he's supposed to" is easier for a coach to plan around because anything that goes in is a defensive failure, not a goaltending failure.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

This thread grieves me greatly. I detest what goaltending has become at all level of hockey.

Its honestly not that bad. Watch an NHL goaltender in a typical game today and one from the O6 and theres really not that much different other than the lateral sliding recoveries (new pad technology) and increased use of the butterfly. Almost every goalie in the NHL these days is a hybrid, all of the pure butterfly types like Giguerre turned out to be too one dimensional to handle the NHL level.

But at the lower levels the insistence on blocking at the expense of everything else is just maddening. I remember I once met a goalie who thought it was strange that I was sawing down a new stick by an inch to the right length for handling the puck. He literally thought that inch by half amount of blocking area at the knob was more important than being able to handle the puck effectively

 

[Big Phil]

Its honestly not that bad. Watch an NHL goaltender in a typical game today and one from the O6 and theres really not that much different other than the lateral sliding recoveries (new pad technology) and increased use of the butterfly. Almost every goalie in the NHL these days is a hybrid, all of the pure butterfly types like Giguerre turned out to be too one dimensional to handle the NHL level.

But at the lower levels the insistence on blocking at the expense of everything else is just maddening. I remember I once met a goalie who thought it was strange that I was sawing down a new stick by an inch to the right length for handling the puck. He literally thought that inch by half amount of blocking area at the knob was more important than being able to handle the puck effectively

I was always one of those people from the 1990s and up until pretty much now that always was against the idea that the "goaltenders are just that good today". I never believed it, and well, since scoring it near the levels it used to be in the mid 1990s it looks like I was right. Goalies were never bad, not even in the 1980s. But goalies who wear Michelin Man costumes are going to look better than ones with equipment half that size. Now, with more restrictions on goalies you see the bad ones get exposed a lot more. Garth Snow would have been pumping gas without this large equipment.

 

[psycat]

Chechmanek? (Did a brief stint on our local team here in Sweden during the early 2000s and he had a couple of pretty solid seasons, borderline elite?, season in the NHL).

 

[scott clam]

How would people here describe Grant Fuhr's style?

 

[mobilus]

Bill Ranford

 

[Moose Head]

How would people here describe Grant Fuhr's style?

Reflex goalie

 

[JianYang]

Sean Burke?

Mclean and Burke were the names that came came into my head.

Burke obviously kept playing long after mclean retired, but I think Burke's play did evolve over time. I'd say Burke was maybe the last goalie to retire that used the stand up technique, but I'm not sure he was the latest one to use it.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Chechmanek? (Did a brief stint on our local team here in Sweden during the early 2000s and he had a couple of pretty solid seasons, borderline elite?, season in the NHL).

I wouldn’t necessarily call Roman Cechmanek strictly a standup (he joked that he had “no style”).

Fantastic player though. Went .921/.921/.925 in Philadelphia while his backups went .876/.905/.907, but that era’s Flyers never met a goaltender that they didn’t want to fire out of a cannon towards the moon. Even in 2004, he had better even strength numbers than guys like Brodeur and Belfour and Turco, but played for a Kings team that got wrecked on the PK, which tanked his raw numbers.

 

[Michael Farkas]

That was not a joke.

 

[crobro]

Mclean and Burke were the names that came came into my head.

Burke obviously kept playing long after mclean retired, but I think Burke's play did evolve over time. I'd say Burke was maybe the last goalie to retire that used the stand up technique, but I'm not sure he was the latest one to use it.

I believe that in his final year in Phoenix he finished 2nd in Vezina voting

 

[ShelbyZ]

Bill Ranford for two games in the 1999 playoffs?

 

[JianYang]

Bill Ranford for two games in the 1999 playoffs?

I don't know if ranford was primarily a stand up goalie like mclean was.

Are we calling anyone who wasn't a butterfly goalie a standup goalie by default?

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

I wouldn’t necessarily call Roman Cechmanek strictly a standup (he joked that he had “no style”).

Fantastic player though. Went .921/.921/.925 in Philadelphia while his backups went .876/.905/.907, but that era’s Flyers never met a goaltender that they didn’t want to fire out of a cannon towards the moon. Even in 2004, he had better even strength numbers than guys like Brodeur and Belfour and Turco, but played for a Kings team that got wrecked on the PK, which tanked his raw numbers.

Cechmanek was NOT standup. He had that same loopy style as Hasek. He was basically a bigger, slower Hasek. Flopping, took him forever to get up, too. Best Flyers goalie of the O's, but he sucked in the playoffs(except '02, that wasn't his fault).

 

[Michael Farkas]

Cechmanek had no obvious knowledge of the vertical angles involved in covering the net though...

From this goofball position, he'd typically just throw himself at the puck...shoulders first...

He, too, was one of the worst goalies I've ever seen...

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Tretiak.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Best Flyers goalie of the O's, but he sucked in the playoffs(except '02, that wasn't his fault).

I think he probably would have played out of that perception had his NHL career not been so short.

For one, his first three playoff runs (23 games) are pretty comparable to the first three from Henrik Lundqvist (23 games), and Lundqvist went on to shake early criticism.

Both had 8 games where they allowed 1 goal or less, and both had a solid number of blowouts to balance it out (Cechmanek allowed 4-5 GA in regulation 4 times; Lundqvist allowed 5-6 GA in regulation 4 times). Cechmanek’s median game was .923 (Lundqvist’s was .903).

Cechmanek only dipped below an even split in quality games in a series once (2-4, 2003 vs. Ottawa), whereas Lundqvist did in two series (0-3, 2006 vs. New Jersey; 2-3, 2008 vs. New Jersey).

And secondly, and probably more interesting, is that his even-strength save percentage in the 2001-2003 playoffs (.927) wasn’t that far off that of that of the three Stanley Cup winners’ cumulative numbers (Brodeur, Hasek, and Roy had .930-.933).

Hell, his .927 in the playoffs wasn’t far off of his regular season numbers (.931) which were among the best in the league from 2001-2004:

Player	GP	EV S%
Marty Turco	185	.931
Sean Burke	191	.931
Patrick Roy	188	.931
Roman Cechmanek	212	.931
Roberto Luongo	242	.930

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*minimum 160 games

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

From this goofball position

Better known as... Vertical Half, or what pretty much every butterfly goalie was trained to do on plays down low before RVH became a thing?

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

Cechmanek had no obvious knowledge of the vertical angles involved in covering the net though...

From this goofball position, he'd typically just throw himself at the puck...shoulders first...

He, too, was one of the worst goalies I've ever seen...

Or make sure he stopped it with his mask. If he's one of the worst goalies you ever saw, though, you haven't watched much hockey. He was decent in his 4 years in the NHL.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

I think he probably would have played out of that perception had his NHL career not been so short.

For one, his first three playoff runs (23 games) are pretty comparable to the first three from Henrik Lundqvist (23 games), and Lundqvist went on to shake early criticism.

Both had 8 games where they allowed 1 goal or less, and both had a solid number of blowouts to balance it out (Cechmanek allowed 4-5 GA in regulation 4 times; Lundqvist allowed 5-6 GA in regulation 4 times). Cechmanek’s median game was .923 (Lundqvist’s was .903).

Cechmanek only dipped below an even split in quality games in a series once (2-4, 2003 vs. Ottawa), whereas Lundqvist did in two series (0-3, 2006 vs. New Jersey; 2-3, 2008 vs. New Jersey).

And secondly, and probably more interesting, is that his even-strength save percentage in the 2001-2003 playoffs (.927) wasn’t that far off that of that of the three Stanley Cup winners’ cumulative numbers (Brodeur, Hasek, and Roy had .930-.933).

Hell, his .927 in the playoffs wasn’t far off of his regular season numbers (.931) which were among the best in the league from 2001-2004:

Player	GP	EV S%
Marty Turco	185	.931
Sean Burke	191	.931
Patrick Roy	188	.931
Roman Cechmanek	212	.931
Roberto Luongo	242	.930

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*minimum 160 games

I don't know how he would have done in the "new NHL". He had 4 playoff series as Flyers starter. '01 first round loss to Buffalo, he was doing alright until his Game 6 implosion. '02 against Ottawa, I think we know he played well, and the series loss was not his fault. The Flyers won 1-0 in OT in Game 1, and didn't score AT ALL in Games 2, 3 and 4. His lone win was '03 against Toronto, but the way we lost to Ottawa the next round, Cechmanek's time in Philly couldn't go on. Overall he was .909 in the '03 Playoffs.

 

[Jonny HabsFan]

I agree - but who in the thread is claiming otherwise?

Now I can't find it but you'll have to take my word for it, someone said that stand up goalies were gone by the 80's. I'll keep looking but I just don't have enough time right now.