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Nerowoy nora tolad

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May 9, 2018
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Ill very loosely define elite as at least a starter whose play and/or numbers rank in the top 5 or so of the league, OR a playoff run where his level of play is extremely high throughout (comparable to 2018 Fleury, etc.)

The top suspects in my mind have to be Ranford and McLean, with a slight lean towards Ranford (McLean strikes me as cooler and more reliable/predictably good, but I think he benefitted more from a strong team defence than Ranford did).

And, for arguments sake, if its not one of those two, who is it?
 

danincanada

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Feb 11, 2008
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I'm not sure who was the last one was but I was also thinking McLean or Ranford as well. I just know that Ranford looked like a fish out of water once the Avs figured him out in '99. Somehow he had success in games 1 and 2 but he couldn't sustain it by game 3. He was sliding all over the place and let in a lot of shots that are taken for granted as easy saves with a butterfly goalie. There have been some hybrid guys but Ranford is a good example of why the stand up goalie is extinct.
 

Crosbyfan

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Nov 27, 2003
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How stand up are we talking about?
exh-sport-Ken-Dryden-HHOF.jpeg


;)
 

Michael Farkas

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Jun 28, 2006
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Ok, so that's very agreeable...

I don't think anyone intended to mention Fleury (just the OP did) in terms of stand-up style...but just in terms of the playoff run that he went on...I don't think anyone could ever construe Flower as being a stand-up goalie...I thought you were saying that with regard to my list of kind of hybrid goalies with stand-up foundations...but, yes, Fleury is a reflex goalie/butterfly-plus-plus and need not apply to this thread certainly...
 
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Jim MacDonald

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Oct 7, 2017
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Maybe some of the goalie homies (Doctor No, Quoipoui-I forget how to spell the rest sorry!) have a good thought/answer....I was gonna say Kirk McLean.
 
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Doctor No

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I would say McLean since he was an NHL goaltender one season longer than Ranford (my definition of "elite" is "playing at the NHL level", and I understand that others may have a different valid definition of that term.)

I would call Brodeur a hybrid goaltender, although some call McLean an "inverted V" Ian Young style goaltender (McLean probably doesn't refer to himself as a pure standup goaltender).
 

Nerowoy nora tolad

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Full stand-up? Or had strong elements of stand-up...? I'm suspecting the former, but if the latter, that Warren Strelow/Vlad Tretiak school gets a lot of love: Brodeur, Nabokov, Richter, etc.

My immediate reaction is to say Martin Brodeur. But I guess it depends how you want to define "standup".

Id say the style tipping point IMO is does the goalie in question make kick saves and/or pad stacks as part of their regular save repertoire. So a goaltender like Tim Thomas who recovers to his feet a lot relative to his peers but still makes most of his saves using the butterfly and similar techniques is *not* a standup goaltender, but early career Marty Brodeur might be. (I dont recall much of his later career well, but he was still using some desperation moves that had more in common with pad stacks and the Hasek roll than anything that butterfly goaltenders are taught to do these days)

M.A. Fleury from youth hockey days was first and foremost a reflex goalie, teasing shooters to try his glove side.

Martin Brodeur from youth hockey days was a stand-up goalie, relying on positioning and his size to cover the net.

Ok, so that's very agreeable...

I don't think anyone intended to mention Fleury (just the OP did) in terms of stand-up style...but just in terms of the playoff run that he went on...I don't think anyone could ever construe Flower as being a stand-up goalie...I thought you were saying that with regard to my list of kind of hybrid goalies with stand-up foundations...but, yes, Fleury is a reflex goalie/butterfly-plus-plus and need not apply to this thread certainly...

Ok, clarifying, I was not referring to Fleury as a standup goaltender at all, I was referring to his playoffs this past season as a comparable for a truly elite playoffs (he had what, a f***ing 940 sv pct going into the finals at one point this past playoffs?), which I would consider somewhat similar to Ranfords 1990 playoffs.

And for the record, Brodeurs evolution was the reverse of that. He started out as a butterfly centric goaltender in junior, but had his style broken down and rebuilt with a lot of standup/older thinking by Jacques Caron when he arrived in the NHL.

I would say McLean since he was an NHL goaltender one season longer than Ranford (my definition of "elite" is "playing at the NHL level", and I understand that others may have a different valid definition of that term.)

I would call Brodeur a hybrid goaltender, although some call McLean an "inverted V" Ian Young style goaltender (McLean probably doesn't refer to himself as a pure standup goaltender).

Can you clarify exactlty what the inverted V was supposed to be? Ive heard that term a few times before, but I have no idea what they thought it meant. McLean always appeared to be a truly classic standup goaltender to me, everything about the way he approached making saves was distinctly at right angles with butterfly style thinking.

And yeah, its hard to say which one of Ranford v McLean really was better, but Id rate Ranfords peak in the 90 & 92 playoffs as giving him the edge IMO. I might just not be seeing enough footage of prime Ranford to see similar issues in his game, but every time I see footage of McLean from that 1994 playoff year he leaves me wanting a little bit more, and McLeans low points could be downright awful.
 

Nerowoy nora tolad

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Full stand-up? Or had strong elements of stand-up...? I'm suspecting the former, but if the latter, that Warren Strelow/Vlad Tretiak school gets a lot of love: Brodeur, Nabokov, Richter, etc.

I think any one of those three could qualify as standups for our purposes. Nabokov probably wasnt quite good enough to truly be called elite, but Richter definitely has the resume IMO
 

Jonny HabsFan

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Feb 21, 2020
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I have to disagree with the idea that stand up goalies went extinct in the 80's. There is obviously a significant difference between different era's but to me how can Kirk McLean not be counted as a stand up goalie? And he played through the 90's and I think retired in 2001 or 02? A guy he played with Corey Hirsch also played that style and was also in the 90's and early 2000's.
 

Pompeius Magnus

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May 18, 2014
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Mike Richter would be the last of the classic version of that to retire, in 2002 if memory serves . Him, Moog, McLean, Vernon and Ranford were the last of the standup goalies in my book and they all retired just before that. You COULD make an argument Ranford and McLean were truer versions of the classic style though, Richter was a bit more hybrid.
 
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Nerowoy nora tolad

Registered User
May 9, 2018
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Gladstone, Australia
Mike Richter would be the last of the classic version of that to retire, in 2002 if memory serves . Him, Moog, McLean, Vernon and Ranford were the last of the standup goalies in my book and they all retired just before that. You COULD make an argument Ranford and McLean were truer versions of the classic style though, Richter was a bit more hybrid.

IMO Ranford was the last one who looked like he legitimately had a claim on being the best goalie in the league while playing as a full standup.

Vernon changed his style a lot in his later years (1995-retirement or so) to get up to date as a butterfly goalie. He actually made the change pretty smoothly considering he wasnt exactly the right physical specimen for the style, and how late in his career it was
 

nabby12

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Nov 11, 2008
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Brodeur and Nabokov were the last two that employed a stand-up/hybrid style with a very narrow stance that showed their legs almost touching.
 

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