Who should the Jets Buyout?

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garret9

AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Mar 31, 2012
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Vancouver
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Whoa, easy there. Hainsey's contract is pathetic. I like the guy, but let's get real, he's a 5th D-man at best. At $5,000,000 per? See ya!

Other than Hainsey, I would suggest the Jet's contracts are basically in-line with league standards.

You are sadly mistaken.

1) Ron Hainsey's 2012-13 cap hit is 4.5 mil; his salary for 2012-13 is 3.0 mil
2) Ron Hainsey's 2013-14 cap hit is 0.0 mil; his salary for 2013-14 is 0.0 mil (the year for buyouts in question)
3) Ron Hainsey's not a 5th D-man at best; he's between a 4 or 5 on most teams (I'll prove this bellow if you want to read it); he's a 4 on the Jets' which is considered average-to-slightly-above-average for defense
4) Looking at capgeek, most teams spend between 3-5 for their #4 so he's right on par for the role


Trouba did great at the WJC but some people need to really keep their opinions in check...

Trouba has potential to be a great defensemen... potential! Currently there are multiple defensemen who, although have way lower ceilings, are much closer to NHL ready than him in the Jets' cupboards, and even they wouldn't be able to do as well as Hainsey at the #4 spot.

If Trouba's development tracks at a normal rate for a top-end D pick that goes to college:
*He'll leave college after his third year (2014-15)
*Play AHL maybe for half a season (2015) and NHL in a sheltered role (2016)
*Be ready for tough minutes in his 2nd or 3rd NHL season (2016-17 or 2017-18)
Now, development is never linear or the same for all people, but this is average for someone of Trouba's calibre for facing the tough minutes that Hainsey faces.
Add in that he's a RHD with no experience on the left side and the Jets' have Byfuglien, Bogosian, Postma and Redmond ahead of him who are RHD, none (including Trouba) who have any experience playing the left-side outside of PP (minor issue but still one).


... I'll post the Hainsey breakdown in a separate thread.. It's taking me a while... It's long...
 

Sweech

Oh When the Spurs
Jun 30, 2011
11,086
466
Hamilton, Ontario
Whoa, easy there. Hainsey's contract is pathetic. I like the guy, but let's get real, he's a 5th D-man at best. At $5,000,000 per? See ya!

Other than Hainsey, I would suggest the Jet's contracts are basically in-line with league standards.

You do realize the team still pays him when you do a buyout right? I really think a lot of people are missing that...or being willfully ignorant; can't tell which yet.

Him being overpaid doesn't mean you have to give him the money to not play on the team.
 

Lynk

Registered Bro
Apr 18, 2006
17,426
1,482
Ontario, Canada
You do realize the team still pays him when you do a buyout right? I really think a lot of people are missing that...or being willfully ignorant; can't tell which yet.

Him being overpaid doesn't mean you have to give him the money to not play on the team.

He's the reason we're not playing hockey bro, we have to buy him out to show him how we feel!
 

wpgsilver

Registered User
Jun 14, 2011
10,890
14
Winnipeg
Whoa, easy there. Hainjsey's contract is pathetic. I like the guy, but let's get real, he's a 5th D-man at best. At $5,000,000 per? See ya!

Other than Hainsey, I would suggest the Jet's contracts are basically in-line with league standards.




The first post is factually inaccurate. As has been pointed out you got his salary and cap hit wrong. Secondly I don't think he's over paid any more than most 4th d-men.
I really feel like people are degrading Hainsey's ability due to his role in the NHLPA. He's a QUALITY 4 or 5 d-man.

Also if you think Trouba is a better player than Hainsey right now, you're crazy.
 

Gungagalunga

Registered User
Dec 31, 2012
48
0
Under a rock
The first post is factually inaccurate. As has been pointed out you got his salary and cap hit wrong. Secondly I don't think he's over paid any more than most 4th d-men.
I really feel like people are degrading Hainsey's ability due to his role in the NHLPA. He's a QUALITY 4 or 5 d-man.

Also if you think Trouba is a better player than Hainsey right now, you're crazy.

I'm not crazy, I'm a realist. Hainsey is not a $5m player. He's not a $3m player. In fact, I'm amazed he's still in the bigs. And yes, I think Trouba, currently, is a better player than Ron Hainsey. The OP asked which Jet's contracts should be bought out (if any) and I suggested Hainsey, a no-brainer to at the very least, open trade talks.
 

Lynk

Registered Bro
Apr 18, 2006
17,426
1,482
Ontario, Canada
I'm not crazy, I'm a realist. Hainsey is not a $5m player. He's not a $3m player. In fact, I'm amazed he's still in the bigs. And yes, I think Trouba, currently, is a better player than Ron Hainsey. The OP asked which Jet's contracts should be bought out (if any) and I suggested Hainsey, a no-brainer to at the very least, open trade talks.

Any credibility you may have is flushed down the drain when you say Trouba is a better player.
 

garret9

AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Mar 31, 2012
21,738
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Vancouver
www.hockey-graphs.com
I'm not crazy, I'm a realist. Hainsey is not a $5m player. He's not a $3m player. In fact, I'm amazed he's still in the bigs. And yes, I think Trouba, currently, is a better player than Ron Hainsey. The OP asked which Jet's contracts should be bought out (if any) and I suggested Hainsey, a no-brainer to at the very least, open trade talks.

But:
You are sadly mistaken.

1) Ron Hainsey's 2012-13 cap hit is 4.5 mil; his salary for 2012-13 is 3.0 mil
2) Ron Hainsey's 2013-14 cap hit is 0.0 mil; his salary for 2013-14 is 0.0 mil (the year for buyouts in question)
3) Ron Hainsey's not a 5th D-man at best; he's between a 4 or 5 on most teams (I'll prove this bellow if you want to read it); he's a 4 on the Jets' which is considered average-to-slightly-above-average for defense
4) Looking at capgeek, most teams spend between 3-5 for their #4 so he's right on par for the role

There are about ~100 or so NHL regular defenseman who are worse than Hainsey... To think Trouba is better now is crazy when there are NHL/AHL tweeners better than Trouba is now.
I've watched most of Trouba's Michigan games and all his WJC but remember this is a DRASTIC different competition level.
 

Tintin's Ghost

Registered User
May 28, 2007
1,132
5
Saskatoon
How can it be anyone other than Gagnon? 1 point in like 25 games for St.John's?? And he's on a 1 way?? Any HF Jets poster could duplicate what Gagnon has done so far this year. And I say that with all seriousness. We don't need to buy out anyone but we should want to buy out Gagnon to cleanse the soul.
 

Becel

I Hate Jamie Macoun
Sep 14, 2011
346
0
Do people realize that the buyouts are for AFTER this season?

The poll gives noone who has contracts NEXT year.

The only Jets with contracts next year are:
Kane - 5.25
Jokinen - 4.5
Ladd - 4.4
Slater - 1.6
Thorburn - .866,667
Byfuglien - 5.2
Enstrom - 5.75
Stuart - 1.7
Pavelec - 3.9

The poll is flawed. Noone gets bought out.

Even IF they could buy someone out this year like Hainsey as suggested earlier it would not and should not even be considered. The Jets should be in the business of winning hockey games. Hainsey is one of the best 6 options we have on D so he plays - it's as simple as that. Stop getting worked up over a guy making 4.5 million - he is a solid Dman. Atlanta singed him to a big contract - can you blame him for taking money offered to him? Does everyone forget how bad Flood, Jones, and Kulda were against actual NHL talent - not their sheltered 10 minutes that they were snuck on the ice for each game?
 

Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
22,807
5,400
Winnipeg
Do people realize that the buyouts are for AFTER this season?

The poll gives noone who has contracts NEXT year.

The only Jets with contracts next year are:
Kane - 5.25
Jokinen - 4.5
Ladd - 4.4
Slater - 1.6
Thorburn - .866,667
Byfuglien - 5.2
Enstrom - 5.75
Stuart - 1.7
Pavelec - 3.9

The poll is flawed. Noone gets bought out.

Even IF they could buy someone out this year like Hainsey as suggested earlier it would not and should not even be considered. The Jets should be in the business of winning hockey games. Hainsey is one of the best 6 options we have on D so he plays - it's as simple as that. Stop getting worked up over a guy making 4.5 million - he is a solid Dman. Atlanta singed him to a big contract - can you blame him for taking money offered to him? Does everyone forget how bad Flood, Jones, and Kulda were against actual NHL talent - not their sheltered 10 minutes that they were snuck on the ice for each game?

All correct, except the bolded. Kulda was solid in all of his games, including the couple where he played a bigger role due to the injuries...Noel seemed to have a personal thing against him and Machacek, for whatever reason...
 

Gungagalunga

Registered User
Dec 31, 2012
48
0
Under a rock
But:


There are about ~100 or so NHL regular defenseman who are worse than Hainsey... To think Trouba is better now is crazy when there are NHL/AHL tweeners better than Trouba is now.
I've watched most of Trouba's Michigan games and all his WJC but remember this is a DRASTIC different competition level.

I think it's great that you're Hainsey's player agent. I just thank god you're not the GM of the Winnipeg Jets.
 

garret9

AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Mar 31, 2012
21,738
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Vancouver
www.hockey-graphs.com
I think it's great that you're Hainsey's player agent. I just thank god you're not the GM of the Winnipeg Jets.

Lol your insults do not change the facts
1) can't buyout someone who's not in contract
2) Hainsey was a #4 on most teams
3) Trouba is not ready for the NHL and also won't tryout as he has to drop out of NCAA and sign a contract just to go to tryouts
 

Gungagalunga

Registered User
Dec 31, 2012
48
0
Under a rock
Lol your insults do not change the facts
1) can't buyout someone who's not in contract
2) Hainsey was a #4 on most teams
3) Trouba is not ready for the NHL and also won't tryout as he has to drop out of NCAA and sign a contract just to go to tryouts

Insults? Are you serious? I don't start them, I finish them.

1) Correct. Hence the reason I suggested opening trade talks
2) Wrong. 5 at best
3) Was Gretzky ready for the NHL at 17? Were you one of those? Theron Fleury was too small to play in the NHL. Do I need to continue?

P.S.

I didn't insult you. Pay attention.
 

garret9

AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Mar 31, 2012
21,738
4,380
Vancouver
www.hockey-graphs.com
Trouba is playing against boys...it's a COMPLETE other level when you are playing against Men...Hainsey is a reliable #4 defender, a jack of all trades type that every team likes to have. Trouba is a raw kid that needs quite a bit more seasoning before even stepping onto a bottom pairing, nevermind playing tough minutes like Hainsey did last season. And this is coming from a guy who had Trouba as the #2 defender in the draft last year behind Murray and #7 in the draft last year and he has only improved by leaps and bounds since then.

Seriously WJC is perhaps the worst way to judge players...it's like the Canada U-20 versus 30th place NHL team debate that comes up...it's not even in the same galaxy, nevermind planet in terms of skill/physical readiness...

+1

4char
 

Gungagalunga

Registered User
Dec 31, 2012
48
0
Under a rock
Trouba is playing against boys...it's a COMPLETE other level when you are playing against Men.

I'm well aware about the "boys to men" analogy. I have not played in the NHL, however, I do have 2 close friends that have. I'm well aware that on average, it will take an added 2-4 years to develop a solid defenceman as opposed to a forward. Having said that, I believe Trouba is an anomaly, and will be ready for the bigs far sooner than most of you prognosticators believe. Anyway, I think we're off topic on that....
 

Becel

I Hate Jamie Macoun
Sep 14, 2011
346
0
Trouba is playing against boys...it's a COMPLETE other level when you are playing against Men...Hainsey is a reliable #4 defender, a jack of all trades type that every team likes to have. Trouba is a raw kid that needs quite a bit more seasoning before even stepping onto a bottom pairing, nevermind playing tough minutes like Hainsey did last season. And this is coming from a guy who had Trouba as the #2 defender in the draft last year behind Murray and #7 in the draft last year and he has only improved by leaps and bounds since then.

Seriously WJC is perhaps the worst way to judge players...it's like the Canada U-20 versus 30th place NHL team debate that comes up...it's not even in the same galaxy, nevermind planet in terms of skill/physical readiness...

Could you imagine having Hainsey on the point in the WJHC this year?? lol
 
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