Proposal: Who should get bought out Abdelkader or Nielsen

[RedWingzz]

Abdelkader may very well be the worst player in the NHL this year.

 

[golffuul]

Bury them both, eat the salary to make the Cap floor, and open roster spots. Buying them out only extends the pain of their presence for twice the amount of time it should.

 

[2xJack]

I have no doubt that Holland's success with older players maintaining form did shift his perceptions on contracts like this. From that perspective, it's almost understandable. Still dumb, but hey, at least I can see where he was coming from.

Plus when you sign deals like that, you anticipate the cap going up each year, and by the tail end it's going to be much easier to handle having a $4 million dollar grinder. Again, I kind of get it.

I also believe that Holland's success with older players staying good shifted his perception. Did he not consider that it was more likely HoF level athletes would maintain form better than role players? Maybe he missed that critical, but I also think rather obvious, detail. This is where having someone on the staff who is just a stats / numbers guy could have been beneficial. Players like Ovechkin and Crosby drop off at very different rates than say Colby Armstrong or Tomas Fleischmann.

That is also a great point about the cap increasing. At least in the very early years of the cap the big contracts handed out started to look like relative bargains a few seasons later. If performance is flat and a player never got injured, it would be better to lock in someone on a long term deal rather than several shorter contracts with increasing pay. Problem is, Holland either didn't consider the risk side of the equation or grossly miscalculated... to the point he was burned multiple times.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Remember when people argued that extending Gator was meant to preserve Detroit's winning culture? His hard work and character would show the young kids what it took to succeed in the NHL. Good times...

 

[nhlisawesome]

Abdelkader doesn't even fight or play hard he's preserving his life beyond the NHL it's clear he cashed out. Guy is smart I'll give him that.

 

[Retire91]

Abdelkader may very well be the worst player in the NHL this year.

But he is tied for 244th highest paid

Absolutely mind boggling that some want them both left right where they are when they have nothing to offer and could even be detrimental

Oh but we don’t need that cap space? Sure

worried about cap space but not worried about the millions it will add to the CAP for longer? What would we do with the cap if we initiated the buyout. Pay more plugs to replace them? What 24 year old all star UFA is available to add to this core that is actually going to sign here and for reasonable money?

If we clear cap space to take on a terrible contract for another first round pick? Well now I am listening.

 

[Snuggs]

I'm acutally kinda pissed we did not trade for Trocheck, given I thought he went for a very reasonable price. Especially if we end up winning the #1 pick in the lottery...

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha
Lafreniere-Trocheck-Zadina
Fabbri-Rasmussen-Helm/Flip
Abby-Glendening-Smith/Svech

That lineup could actually do a little damage potentially.

Red Wings have also like 40 million dollars, resignings and signings will happen. I don't get this idea that they can stay on the roster and we dont' need to make a move (on) from them or either guy. At least one of the two won't be on this team next year. I can pretty much guarantee it. Neither guy is helping the rebuild and moving on from espeically Abdelkader frees up a roster spot and a tiny bit more of money. His buyout cost will be less than Stephen Weiss. I think Red Wings have a chance to get competitive like the NJD did after the Hirscher selection.

* Lafreniere
* High End Center
* Solid LHD
* Starting Goalie

Those four moves alone are going to make the Red Wings MUCH MUCH better than this year. DeKeyser is skating again too so, there is that also.

Frans Neilson is owed less that 5 million in salary for 2 years, I can see the team keeping him around even though his cap hit is still really high. * I can even see Seattle selecting him to reach the cap floor easily without actually paying a ton of salary their first season. * (1.5 million salary/5 million dollar cap hit)

I mean Neilson is basically a blunt knife, and Abdelkader is just a knife end, with no blade. Ones not very useful, and the other is even less useful.

 

[Retire91]

What is the point of being competitive next year, they are not going to compete for the cup. You are just as likely to get get good hockey with our first pick this year and Seider joining the roster. Exactly what good does buying out 4th liners Neilsen and Abby and adding two slightly better plugs with same term do? Now we will be in 25th place instead of 26th? Its not worth it to me. Players like Krug don't match our core age group and will want huge term and salary. There is no one in our core age that is going to be available. That has to happen through trade and Yzerman is good at that.

Stay the course and build through the draft and trades like 99.9% of every cap era cup winner. When the cup window is open that is when you talk about UFA

Now if you want to strip the A away from Neilsen and Abby now we are talking.

 

[nhlisawesome]

^
I think most of us in here want to watch some competitive hockey again in some way shape or form. Another season like this one will drive most of us insane

 

[Ulysses31]

vegangator has lost his killer instinct

 

[Retire91]

^
I think most of us in here want to watch some competitive hockey again in some way shape or form. Another season like this one will drive most of us insane

I am going to over-dramaticise this and over simplify this because I just need to get it out of my system. Its not an attack on you and a lot of people will disagree I expect that.

People like me were harping on Holland and the organization as a whole for going for it to keep the streak alive. What people saw as "trying to ice the best team at all times", "staying competative when you have a chance to get in", "get in and anything can happen", "you want to blow up a team with Zetterberg and Datsyuk?" I saw completely different. I saw an organization that could not admit a rebuild was necessary when Lidstrom retired. You lost stars due to injury, your elite core aged and became less effective, your draft picks were not filling in the gap, our pick order was not restocking the cupboards, and our GM was not doing any trades with the future in mind.

Its fine it was what it was and what happened happend, BUT that comes with a cost

The laws of nature dictate in almost any situation that the longer you ignore and stop gap a problem the bigger the problem becomes. This is true in health, finances, career, relationships, car maintenance, politics, school, and yes even hockey.

Each time the red wings went for it they added another year of complexity to the rebuild. So every year we stop gapped another bubble first round exit we kicked the can that much further down the road. The red wings did this with Holland at the helm as many times as they could until the wheels finally flew off. This team went so far to the bottom it resulted in a historically bad season.

You can not react to this situation by pulling some magic UFA leaver. If this was your health you gotta go to the hospitol and be admitted, if this is your car you would have to leave it with a mechanic for 2 months, if this was your finances you would declare bankruptcy, I don't know what the equivilant anicdote for hockey is of absolute rock bottom, but we are there.

You have 2 first round picks that were outside of the top 1o that are playing like top 10 picks
You have 2 second round picks playing like first round picks
You have a 6th overall in the pipeline and at least a 4th overall on the way.
You got one player through trade that looks like a solid tweener.

Outside of that there is nothing and that is far from a cup core, and no UFA, not a single UFA, there is not a UFA IN EXISTENCE, that fixes this.

So stay the course and let Yzerman do his thing and expect to see competitive hockey when the core is actually filled.

 

[The Zermanator]

Maybe the virus will lead to cap implications that results in another round of compliance buyouts. Get Abby off the team once and for all...

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

What is the point of being competitive next year, they are not going to compete for the cup. You are just as likely to get get good hockey with our first pick this year and Seider joining the roster. Exactly what good does buying out 4th liners Neilsen and Abby and adding two slightly better plugs with same term do? Now we will be in 25th place instead of 26th? Its not worth it to me. Players like Krug don't match our core age group and will want huge term and salary. There is no one in our core age that is going to be available. That has to happen through trade and Yzerman is good at that.

Stay the course and build through the draft and trades like 99.9% of every cap era cup winner. When the cup window is open that is when you talk about UFA

Now if you want to strip the A away from Neilsen and Abby now we are talking.

What's the point of trying to do anything. We suck and won't be any good.

 

[Retire91]

What's the point of trying to do anything. We suck and won't be any good.

So we should extend Holland's reign by signing a bunch of UFA plugs place outside of the top 10 in drafting and never have a chance at a cup every season?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

So we should extend Holland's reign by signing a bunch of UFA plugs place outside of the top 10 in drafting and never have a chance at a cup every season?

no, but throwing your hands up and saying “we are going to suck anyways so let’s not do anything” is not a realistic response.

You are taking one aspect of building a team and blowing it way out of proportion.

Why the hell do you have to immediately jump to “we will fill the boat with UFA plugs”? No, you look to get players in FA that will stabilize your team during a rebuild and maybe you get lucky and a Stamkos is on the market. You don’t run out and buy ALL THE MIDLINERS!, but you do look to add pieces that will make it so you don’t have Dylan Larkin trying to carry the roster on his back. That you don’t have a defense that an AHL team might look at quizzically

 

[Retire91]

no, but throwing your hands up and saying “we are going to suck anyways so let’s not do anything” is not a realistic response.

You are taking one aspect of building a team and blowing it way out of proportion.

Why the hell do you have to immediately jump to “we will fill the boat with UFA plugs”? No, you look to get players in FA that will stabilize your team during a rebuild and maybe you get lucky and a Stamkos is on the market. You don’t run out and buy ALL THE MIDLINERS!, but you do look to add pieces that will make it so you don’t have Dylan Larkin trying to carry the roster on his back. That you don’t have a defense that an AHL team might look at quizzically

Understood, so which 23-25 year old elite players are available?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Understood, so which 23-25 year old elite players are available?

Again, why the **** does it have to be all in with you? I'm not saying go run and sign Jean Gabriel Pageau to a 6x6 contract. I'm saying that you look and if you can get an Andy Greene at a reasonable price, you do it. If a guy like Tavares is on the market or Stamkos a couple years ago, you shoot for the moon because they're absolutely elite players. Free Agency isn't an all or nothing thing. The Wings are going to end up signing guys in the Filppula, Nemeth mold to build a little bit of depth so they're not embarrassingly bad.

Filppula had less in the tank than Stevie thought. But that's the kind of player you sign to try to make yourself not embarrassingly bad. Then, you potentially expand your wallet if a 23-25 year old elite guy is there. But why on earth does it have to be "if we add one okay player to give us some depth so we're not losing 6-1 every night" that you have to turn it into loading the team with shit? Or that if there isn't a magic one shot fixes all bullet that we shouldn't even consider anything?

Trades, FA, and draft. These work in concert to build a team. You don't hold off on one to prop up the others. You don't dump major money into the FA market usually because you're overpaying. But you don't exclude it entirely either.

 

[Retire91]

Again, why the **** does it have to be all in with you? I'm not saying go run and sign Jean Gabriel Pageau to a 6x6 contract. I'm saying that you look and if you can get an Andy Greene at a reasonable price, you do it. If a guy like Tavares is on the market or Stamkos a couple years ago, you shoot for the moon because they're absolutely elite players. Free Agency isn't an all or nothing thing. The Wings are going to end up signing guys in the Filppula, Nemeth mold to build a little bit of depth so they're not embarrassingly bad.

Filppula had less in the tank than Stevie thought. But that's the kind of player you sign to try to make yourself not embarrassingly bad. Then, you potentially expand your wallet if a 23-25 year old elite guy is there. But why on earth does it have to be "if we add one okay player to give us some depth so we're not losing 6-1 every night" that you have to turn it into loading the team with shit? Or that if there isn't a magic one shot fixes all bullet that we shouldn't even consider anything?

Trades, FA, and draft. These work in concert to build a team. You don't hold off on one to prop up the others. You don't dump major money into the FA market usually because you're overpaying. But you don't exclude it entirely either.

Because picking up a bunch of mediocre FA does exactly that. Loads your team up with mediocrity to achieve mediocre results. If you want mediocrity we should have stuck with Holland. Signing a top 28-29 year old right now means they are 34 and making top money when we hit our window and probably declining. How has Mike Green been looking at 34?

So if they are not a 23-25 year old piece that is actually going to fit into our core what purpose do they serve? Why are we not drafting and inserting players were we have needs. If you want to do 1-2 year deals where we are absolutely diing that is one thing. But trying to patch over a gaping wound with some plug is just more Holland.

We don't have a legit number 1 D, we don't have a legit number 1 center, we don't have a legit number 1 G. So what exactly does a FA do for this team? What does a 28-29 year old top FA do for us when they are 34 and probably declining and making 6-7-8 million on our roster when we get into our window?

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Neither. We have plenty of cap space, now both could be waived. I'm ok with that.

 

[DetroitRed]

Abby has been in decline since he got his bell wrung, and that was, it should be said, retaliation for nailing that guy ... was it an Anaheim defender? ... in the playoffs. Babcock probably (I think) ordered the hit Abby threw, so the organization felt bad and gave Abby a sweetheart contract to try to compensate. And now we're all paying for it.

Neilsen's contract is the product of sheer panic by the organization after Datsyuk left.

Abdelkader comes off the books after '22-'23. Neilsen is off after '21-'22, but Neilsen's contract is $1M more expensive per season. Still, Neilsen would be cheaper to buy out.

Which one has more on-ice value? Trick question. But addressing one of these contracts could be a big step in turning the ship around. You could buy out Abby because Neilsen comes off sooner. Or buy out Neilsen because it would be cheaper. If you can replace either of them with a regular contributor, it would be huge.

 

[Mlotek]

Two deadweight players
Abby contract:4.25x3 0g 3a 33yr old
Nielsen contract:5.25x2 4g 5a 35yr old
Frans Nielsen at eliteprospects.com
Justin Abdelkader at eliteprospects.com
Discuss

No point in buying out either.

Team is shit.

Team has cap space.

If you don't want them bury them in AHL or tell em not to report.

 

[Mlotek]

Not to mention Nielsen could be sent to a cap floor team in his final year due to low salary in final year.

Wink wink, Ottawa.

 

[DetroitRed]

No point in buying out either.

Team is shit.

Team has cap space.

If you don't want them bury them in AHL or tell em not to report.

Yeah, there is a question remaining about how soon we want to get better. I think you can absorb a little bit of bad contract, or a buyout, and still compete for, or even win a Stanley Cup. To erase one of these contracts a bit early wouldn't be too bad in that regard, I think. Of course, doing so, you hopefully bring in a replacement who contributes, and that's another double-edge sword: It could hurt them in terms of tanking, but it maybe also brings the good players on the Wings who have endured this mess some relief, which they do deserve. Maybe the answer depends on how well this coming draft goes for the Red Wings.

 

[wingerdinger]

Abbys gotta be sent down next year regardless, then scratch frans and go from there. Their performance is unacceptable.

 

[DetroitRed]

Abbys gotta be sent down next year regardless, then scratch frans and go from there. Their performance is unacceptable.

But would they send either of these guys down? They are both alternate captains, which is a situation Holland set up, but now to rectify it, would look really shrewd.

At minimum I would fix that anyway: give Bert an "A," and give the other "A" to almost anyone else not named Abdelkader or Neilsen. That would be a reforming step in itself because it would communicate that performance is a thing here going forward.