Who`s the best off. defenseman prospect?

[Vlad The Impaler]

Non-NHL: Ryan Suter and Mark Stuart reallllllllly impressed me at this year's WJC tourney. Suter is excellent at holding the puck in, makes great passes, and has great awareness on the ice. I think he is going to be a top notch d-man down the road.

Not sure that's what you implied but while Stuart indeed kicks ass, he's not anywhere near the top 15 offensive D prospects, let alone top 5.

I don't get why everybody finds Suter so promising. I like him, but not as much as people around here.

 

[The Jerk*]

aside from those already mentioned, what about Ross Lupaschuk??

 

[icarus]

Is Suter that great offensively? I'm sure he's not slouch, but does he deserve to be on this list? I see he's got 0.55 PPG with Wisconsin. Dion Phaneuf has 0.82 PPG with Red Deer, and yet no one is mentioning him.

 

[triggrman]

Have not seen both very much, the times that I have seen them, I'd say while Phaneuf does have a great shot, Suter sees the ice better and is a better passer, but you know what it takes both to score.

 

[leafaholix*]

Is Suter that great offensively? I'm sure he's not slouch, but does he deserve to be on this list? I see he's got 0.55 PPG with Wisconsin. Dion Phaneuf has 0.82 PPG with Red Deer, and yet no one is mentioning him.

It's harder to come by points in the NCAA then in the CHL.

But Dion Phaneuf is clearly the better all around defenseman, not sure about offensively... that probably goes to Ryan Suter.

 

[triggrman]

It's harder to come by points in the NCAA then in the CHL.

But Dion Phaneuf is clearly the better all around defenseman, not sure about offensively... that probably goes to Ryan Suter.

How can you say clearly, in the WJC, I'd say Suter was clearly the better all around defenseman. Suter is much better positionally in both ends, he just doesn't hit like Phaneuf, that's alright, look were big hits have gotten Kloucek.

 

[An Ape called Yoko]

Niklas Kronwall.

 

[Debrincat93]

maybe not a top ranked one, but kronwall for detroit with limited playing time is putting ok decent offensive numbers on the 3rd pairing...

5 pts in 19 games getting MAYBE 12-13 mins a game on the 3rd pairing with probably very limited offensive players (like the 4th line and maybe if lucky he gets about 20-30 seconds of pp time a game)

 

[Rabid Ranger]

It's harder to come by points in the NCAA then in the CHL.

But Dion Phaneuf is clearly the better all around defenseman, not sure about offensively... that probably goes to Ryan Suter.

Phaneuf is bigger and is more physical. If that makes him a better all around defenseman than Suter so be it. IMO Suter is no slouch in the hitting department, and while not huge, has the ability to dictate play with his positioning and hockey sense. He rarely makes mistakes, and his offensive instincts are spot on. Just making a high minded comparison, but it's like the differance between a Blake and a Lidstrom. Pick your poison. As for Suter's numbers this year, he's a freshman. Give him a year or two more and his numbers will go up considerably.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

No extended look but from the little I have seen (combined with what I have read) this guy is not as good an athlete as Tanabe (top notch in that respect, he's just a natural) but Richmond is smarter (not difficult. Tanabe has to be one of the dumbest hockey talent in recent years).

Richmond looks like a very solid, unheralded pick for the Canes. I nonetheless don't think he belongs on a top 5 offensive D prospect list.

If by athlete you mean skater, than yeah Richmond is not Tanabe's equal. Than again, who is? Tanabe's one of the finest skating players in the NHL. I would agree that Tanabe's hockey sense lags behind his other abilities, but I don't think he's as Pejorative Slured as you make him out to be. Upside is probably Bret Hedican, and that's not so bad. As for Richmond, I don't think a comparison to Tanabe is apt. He's still learning the defensive side of the game, but it's improving (as has Tanabe's), and he's much more physical, and much more adept offensively than Tanabe is, and probably ever will be.

 

[leafaholix*]

Phaneuf is bigger and is more physical. If that makes him a better all around defenseman than Suter so be it. IMO Suter is no slouch in the hitting department, and while not huge, has the ability to dictate play with his positioning and hockey sense. He rarely makes mistakes, and his offensive instincts are spot on. Just making a high minded comparison, but it's like the differance between a Blake and a Lidstrom. Pick your poison. As for Suter's numbers this year, he's a freshman. Give him a year or two more and his numbers will go up considerably.

Oh, for sure.

IMO, both guys are super prospects on the blue line, it's a close call. But Dion Phaneuf's style and size defensively is better then Suters'. If Ryan's anything like his Uncle, he'll be one of the top 10 defensemen offensively in the future.

Offensively...

1. Ryan Suter
2. Dion Phaneuf

Defensively...

1. Dion Phaneuf
2. Ryan Suter

But the marginal offensively is slim. Defensively, Phaneuf is a few notches above Suter.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

If by athlete you mean skater, than yeah Richmond is not Tanabe's equal. Than again, who is? Tanabe's one of the finest skating players in the NHL.

Among other things that is what I mean, yes. He just seems like a natural and a guy who physically, is in top notch condition. I think I have read reports that also substantiated these impressions but that's at least 24 months old. I'll take a look around. This guy is just a fine athlete. He's pretty powerful all-around for a guy his size.

,but I don't think he's as Pejorative Slured as you make him out to be.

Depends how bad you think I make him out to be

Not saying Tanabe is a moron. Just saying that his hockey smarts is, to be blunt, ABYSSMAL compared to talented players in the NHL. We have to keep in mind this is a select ELITE group that makes it to what is refered to as scoring forward lines and top 4 Ds, usually.

Tanabe's lack of smarts is not so significant as to be truly apparent against lower level of competitions. But to be blunt, when compared with the elite of the NHL, he just plain sucks.

If he didn't, he would be an all-star becuase he is just awesome in other respects.

A good way to illustrate this would be to put him against Datsyuk, who is just the opposite. Datsyuk's is god's gift to the hockey world in terms of smarts, but he's a pretty poor athlete, IMO. He's often shaky on skates (although he is improving in that respect), lacks strength and some jump.

Just like Datsyuk is getting away with his weaknesses by compensating with his awesome strengths, I think Tanabe could too, eventually. But I rate hockey smarts extremely high so I am less optimistic.

As for Richmond, I don't think a comparison to Tanabe is apt. He's still learning the defensive side of the game, but it's improving (as has Tanabe's), and he's much more physical, and much more adept offensively than Tanabe is, and probably ever will be.

I agree it's not a great comparison. But I can see why people are making it as on *the surface* they may seem like similar players with similar backgrounds and vitals.

 

[Ajacied]

No one has mentioned Trevor Daley yet (aside from one Stars fan), which isn't suprising considering the fact that he's a Stars prospect, but Good lord, he should definitely be mentioned.. His stats in juniors are superior then most of the names listed here, his skating is better then all for except J-Bo, he's very feisty for a guy his size and has impressed in his first stint with the big Club, while being the youngest rookie defenseman in the league (was 19 when he made his debute)..

Just an observation, and no, he's not the best, just one who hasn't been mentioned as often as he should..

 

[leafaholix*]

Daley's in the same class as Ian White... their names don't belong here. There are atleast a dozen or two that are better then Daley offensively alone.

 

[Ajacied]

Daley's in the same class as Ian White... their names don't belong here. There are atleast a dozen or two that are better then Daley offensively alone.

Horrible..

I don't have anything to say beside the fact that you just proved my point how underrated he is. This may come as a shock to you, but IMO he's on par with your Cola character..

 

[leafaholix*]

Horrible..

I don't have anything to say beside the fact that you just proved my point how underrated he is. This may come as a shock to you, but IMO he's on par with your Cola character..

Except that he's never achieved anything close to what Colaiacovo has.

Colaiacovo:
OHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
WJC All-Star
1st Round Pick
Two time Team Canada WJC Defenseman

Daley:
OHL All-Star
11 AHL Games - 3 Points
No WJC's (cut from Team Canada for Ian White)

What exactly makes you think he's on par with Colaiacovo? I've seen Daley play numerous times... as well as Colaiacovo. You haven't seen Colaiacovo I'm sure... and make the assumption that Daley's as good as Carlo.

 

[Ajacied]

Except that he's never achieved anything close to what Colaiacovo has.

Colaiacovo:
OHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
WJC All-Star
1st Round Pick
Two time Team Canada WJC Defenseman

Daley:
OHL All-Star
11 AHL Games - 3 Points
No WJC's (cut from Team Canada for Ian White)

What exactly makes you think he's on par with Colaiacovo? I've seen Daley play numerous times... as well as Colaiacovo. You haven't seen Colaiacovo I'm sure... and make the assumption that Daley's as good as Carlo.

Here are their stats..

Trevor Daley:

1999-00 Sault-Ste.-Marie Greyhounds OHL 54 16 30 46 077, ppg of: 0.852
2000-01 Sault-Ste.-Marie Greyhounds OHL 58 14 27 41 105, ppg of: 0.707
2001-02 Sault-Ste.-Marie Greyhounds OHL 47 09 39 48 038, ppg of: 1.021
2002-03 Sault-Ste.-Marie Greyhounds OHL 57 20 33 53 128, ppg of: 0.930

Career ppg average in the OHL: 0.871
Career gpg average in the OHL: 0.273


Carolo Colaiacovo:

1999-00 Erie Otters OHL 52 04 18 22 12, ppg of: 0.231
2000-01 Erie Otters OHL 62 12 27 39 59, ppg of: 0.629
2001-02 Erie Otters OHL 60 13 27 40 49, ppg of: 0.667
2002-03 Erie Otters OHL 35 14 21 35 12, ppg of: 1.000

Career ppg average in the OHL: 0.651
Career gpg average in the OHL: 0.206

Also, please note that Daley plays on a seemingly less quality team. Daley is also 8 months younger. Furthermore, Daley is far more physical, and is among the toughest players for a guy his size, his skating is superior and has outplayed most of our current defenseman ever since he got drafted.

Then you mentioned how Daley did with Utah, which is quite easily the worst team in the entire AHL. Not a comparison, yet you forgot to mention how Daley has already played more games then Cola at the level where it matters. Being on pace for a quiet 20 points, again, on a dismal team.

I actually prefer Daley over Cola...

 

[leafaholix*]

That's because you must be on something.

And when you say Daley's more physical then Colaiacovo, that comes back to you not having seen Carlo play ever.

It's an absolute joke.

 

[Ajacied]

That's because you must be on something.

And when you say Daley's more physical then Colaiacovo, that comes back to you not having seen Carlo play ever.

It's an absolute joke.

Whatever.. your reasons are flawed, don't try to cut me off when you can't handle actual facts.

 

[leafaholix*]

Whatever.. your reasons are flawed, don't try to cut me off when you can't handle actual facts.

My reasons are clear...

Colaiacovo:
OHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
WJC All-Star
1st Round Pick
Two time Team Canada WJC Defenseman

Daley:
OHL All-Star
11 AHL Games - 3 Points
No WJC's (cut from Team Canada for Ian White)

You replied with statistics.

Colaiacovo is the star of a St. John's team that is no better then a .500 team. Has 2 points in his 4 NHL games on a team that is run by a guy who would rather play Richard Jackman then his top prospect. Trevor Daley's one of the better skating defensemen I've seen, but he's small and that's a disadvantage... much like Ian White who's about 9 months younger then Daley.

Ian White: 0.95 PPG (WHL)
Trevor Daley: 0.87 PPG (OHL)

Ian White: WHL All-Star, 2003 Team Canada WJC Defenseman
Trevor Daley: OHL All-Star

 

[Ajacied]

My reasons are clear...

Colaiacovo:
OHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
WJC All-Star
1st Round Pick
Two time Team Canada WJC Defenseman

Daley:
OHL All-Star
11 AHL Games - 3 Points
No WJC's (cut from Team Canada for Ian White)

You replied with statistics.

Colaiacovo is the star of a St. John's team that is no better then a .500 team. Has 2 points in his 4 NHL games on a team that is run by a guy who would rather play Richard Jackman then his top prospect. Trevor Daley's one of the better skating defensemen I've seen, but he's small and that's a disadvantage... much like Ian White who's about 9 months younger then Daley.

Ian White: 0.95 PPG (WHL)
Trevor Daley: 0.87 PPG (OHL)

Ian White: WHL All-Star, 2003 Team Canada WJC Defenseman
Trevor Daley: OHL All-Star

I'm impressed.. comparing WHL stats to OHL's..

Your reason why you don't think Daley is as good is because he didn't made team Canada. I guess Tom Poti is a level of 3 above Derian Hatcher as well..

 

[leafaholix*]

I'm impressed.. comparing WHL stats to OHL's..

Your reason why you don't think Daley is as good is because he didn't made team Canada. I guess Tom Poti is a level of 3 above Derian Hatcher as well..

The WHL and OHL are very similar.

And what the hell does Tom Poti have to do with this? It's interesting that Ian White is the same kind of defenseman as Daley, but has been more succesful offensively in his career as well as beating him for that last spot in the 2003 WJC's.

 

[Ajacied]

The WHL and OHL are very similar.

And what the hell does Tom Poti have to do with this? It's interesting that Ian White is the same kind of defenseman as Daley, but has been more succesful offensively in his career as well as beating him for that last spot in the 2003 WJC's.

Poti got named to the USA team in favor of Derian Hatcher..

 

[leafaholix*]

Poti got named to the USA team in favor of Derian Hatcher..

So?

We're talking about White, Daley, Colaiacovo, WHL, OHL, and Team Canada.

Not Tom Poti, Derian Hatcher, and Team USA.

 

[Ajacied]

So?

We're talking about White, Daley, Colaiacovo, WHL, OHL, and Team Canada.

Not Tom Poti, Derian Hatcher, and Team USA.

You are too easy..

You mentioned how Daley didn't make team Canada, while White did. You seemed to value that as a legit reason, while in fact it means absolutely nothing, as the Poti/Hatcher example shows. And there are many more..

Offensively, Daley is better then Cola by a good margain as my statistics showed, I can't believe how you can even deny that. Much less when you consider that Daley plays in the NHL right now (on a deeper defensive team), Cola does not..

Another intersting tidbit you have forgotten:

Trevor Daley was named Best Skater and Fastest Skater for the third consecutive season

:::LINK:::

He also twice finished finished as the runner up as the best offensive defenseman. Daley also was his team MVP is 3 of 4 seasons, including as a rookie.

And there's more:

named OHL Player of the Week for Feb. 25 in 2000-01 after recording hat tricks in two consecutive games.

Got named OHL rookie All-Star, alongside Rostislav Klesla in 2000.

The fact alone that Daley plays in the NHL and Cola doesn't makes him better, as both are the around the same age (Cola is 8 months older) ..