Who needed to play a full season the most? Lemieux (92-93) or Crosby (10-11)

[tony d]

A 200 point season would have been great to see but this is Crosby. Got to think if Crosby doesn't get injured during his age 23 season and miss some huge time after that, if that doesn't happen Crosby would be in the top 10 players of all time.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Ovechkin has 3 seasons that are all better than Crosby's best season.

Maybe if Crosby was less fragile I would not be able to say that. Maybe.

The again, pretending Crosby is durable would be no different than pretending Joe Thornton is a great goal scorer, except nobody pretends for Thornton.

Poor Joe.

 

[Pominville Knows]

Ovechkin has 3 seasons that are all better than Crosby's best season.

Maybe if Crosby was less fragile I would not be able to say that. Maybe.

The again, pretending Crosby is durable would be no different than pretending Joe Thornton is a great goal scorer, except nobody pretends for Thornton.

Poor Joe.

Only problem with this is that Crosby never was this fragile. He was robbed in this instance by a faulty verdict by doctor(s?).
And i'm sure that some people also are aware that he has long been more complete than Ovechkin. But some obviously not i see.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Only problem with this is that Crosby never was this fragile. He was robbed in this instance by a faulty verdict by doctor(s?).
And i'm sure that some people also are aware that he has long been more complete than Ovechkin. But some obviously not i see.

Indeed Crosby's injuries are totally unique and special. The neck, the multiple concussions, the ankle, the jaw - all freak things. Completely unprecedented in hockey.

You illustrate a good point though: most Crosby supporters pretend he played all those games anyway, or pretend it's not a negative to miss them, so why would missing 2+ seasons worth hurt him in any way?

 

[Pominville Knows]

Indeed Crosby's injuries are totally unique and special. The neck, the multiple concussions, the ankle, the jaw - all freak things. Completely unprecedented in hockey.

You illustrate a good point though: most Crosby supporters pretend he played all those games anyway, or pretend it's not a negative to miss them, so why would missing 2+ seasons worth hurt him in any way?

I was referring to the season(s) this thread is about. You said he was fragile, i pointed out to you the reality of the situation.
Then i proceeded to hint to you that your overall peak comparison is halting since you think that Ovechkin is Kurri and that Crosby is Craig Janney. Perhaps now a bit overstated on my part.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Don't go down this road with that poster...his raison d'être is to pump Ovechkin's tires and to bury Crosby...it's already been found out and hashed out...it's been rendered nolle prosequi...

 

[MadLuke]

You illustrate a good point though: most Crosby supporters pretend he played all those games anyway, or pretend it's not a negative to miss them, so why would missing 2+ seasons worth hurt him in any way?

Look at Crosby top 10, top 5, top 3 scoring result even with those missed game during it's peak, it is still in a trajectory to be all time best, like possibly just below Howe, Greztky, Bobby Hull level of great. And in a 30 team league (maybe do not change much things about winning the Ross, but top 5/top 10 it certainly does)

 

[Midnight Judges]

Look at Crosby top 10, top 5, top 3 scoring result even with those missed game during it's peak, it is still in a trajectory to be all time best, like possibly just below Howe, Greztky, Bobby Hull level of great. And in a 30 team league (maybe do not change much things about winning the Ross, but top 5/top 10 it certainly does)

I don't see how one could be just below Gretzky and Hull, seeing as how Hull is way below Gretzky.

 

[MadLuke]

I don't see how one could be just below Gretzky and Hull, seeing as how Hull is way below Gretzky.

Not in amount of top 10, but in the most top 10 ranking.

 

[NHL WAR]

While a 200 point season would have looked great on Lemieux's resume, I think the whole mystique and amazement around the what ifs and the fact that he put up that many points after cancer are better for his legacy. So I would say Crosby.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

While a 200 point season would have looked great on Lemieux's resume, I think the whole mystique and amazement around the what ifs and the fact that he put up that many points after cancer are better for his legacy. So I would say Crosby.

Still bothers me that his career high is 199. Really?

 

[WingsFan95]

I don't think Crosby playing a full season in 2010-2011 is much better than his previous year. And I don't think it adds much to his legacy although he might very well be tied at 3-3 Harts a piece with Ovechkin. Don't see much difference in Penguins playoffs, like they aren't beating the Bruins.

If Lemieux gets either the goals or points record in a season and given his condition coming back from freaking chemo I think he probably gets one of the two if not both, that certainly aids in his argument over Gretzky (as some view him the better player anyway). The 3rd consecutive Cup is intriguing. I mean it's really a hair off that they lost to the Islanders and they probably beat both the Habs and Kings. That would have been one hell of a Cup Final too with the narrative of Gretz vs. Lemieux.

My answer is Lemieux by a mile.

 

[8LX7psQ]

imagine

Boiled it down.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

If Lemieux didn’t have his 199 point season than this would for sure be him.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

If Crosby finished a full 2010-11 at that pace, he would have his "Beliveau in 55-56" season. I believe in that case, very few would even consider Jagr over Crosby, and Beliveau vs Crosby would be more of an open question than it is.

 

[Hobnobs]

Lemieux was on a 92 goal 213 point pace in 80 games. So sliced right in between Wayne’s 212 and 215 point seasons. Lemieux in 93 was as good as Wayne in either year but goaltending had improved drastically which is why even Lemieuxs 95/96 season of 161 in 70 games ranks up there with Gretzky 200 point years in my eyes

Goaltending didnt improve drastically in 93. Goaltending improved gradually. Lemieux never reached Gretzkys point totals because he always tailed off at the end of the season. Most likely because he didn't take care of his body and didnt work out like he should have. Which gained him a bad back which hampered him from being as great as Gretzky.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Goaltending didnt improve drastically in 93. Goaltending improved gradually. Lemieux never reached Gretzkys point totals because he always tailed off at the end of the season. Most likely because he didn't take care of his body and didnt work out like he should have. Which gained him a bad back which hampered him from being as great as Gretzky.

88-89
First 38 games 106 points
Final 38 games 93 points

Hardly tailing off

 

[Noldo]

88-89
First 38 games 106 points
Final 38 games 93 points

Hardly tailing off

Well, to be fair that is difference of 20 points, about 10%, over a full season, so it is not completely irrelevant.

 

[Hobnobs]

88-89
First 38 games 106 points
Final 38 games 93 points

Hardly tailing off

Thats a pretty significant difference. 0.33ish PPG. Also, thats one season at the beginning of his career and his peak.

 

[psycat]

I don't believe Mario would have kept the pace, I have a very hard time seeing Crosby maintain his. Guess that answers it though.

A lot of players had similiar paces as Crosby had and he never showed that he can keep it up over an entire season.

But let's say they did keep their pace it would be Crosby hands down then he would atleast have a really great peak. Lemieux is already in contention for greatest offensive peak of all time and while that case might be a bit stronger with such a season he would still lose out to Gretzky in terms of extended peak and longveity.

 

[bobbyking]

Crosby not even close . His peak season falls to ovi malkin soon to be kuch and Thornton. Most likely McDavid in time as well

Mario has other super elite seasons that only Wayne can touch

 

[unknown33]

Benefitting legacy wise for an alltime ranking?
Well, Lemieux is in such a weird spot where his position seems to be quite clear and there would be more needed to move him up to 2nd or 3rd place.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I don't believe Mario would have kept the pace, I have a very hard time seeing Crosby maintain his. Guess that answers it though.

A lot of players had similiar paces as Crosby had and he never showed that he can keep it up over an entire season.

But let's say they did keep their pace it would be Crosby hands down then he would atleast have a really great peak. Lemieux is already in contention for greatest offensive peak of all time and while that case might be a bit stronger with such a season he would still lose out to Gretzky in terms of extended peak and longveity.

So instead of 224 points how many points do you think he would have finished with? He already has a season like that 199 points so it’s not really stipulation to say he would have had 210+

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby not even close . His peak season falls to ovi malkin soon to be kuch and Thornton. Most likely McDavid in time as well

Mario has other super elite seasons that only Wayne can touch

Explain how peak Thornton was better than 06-07 Crosby.

 

[Hobnobs]

So instead of 224 points how many points do you think he would have finished with? He already has a season like that 199 points so it’s not really stipulation to say he would have had 210+

Its a non-issue. He didnt reach 200 points. If he did it once then maaaaaaybe some people would rearrange their top-4. Maybe.

In 92-93 he would most likely earn between 30-40 points based on past performance. So between 190-200 points give or take. Now what would change for Mario? He's still behind Gretzky for best offensive player but is closer to him. He's still behind Orr because Orr. And to most who ranks Howe ahead because of peak, prime, durability and being such an all-around player he would still be behind him.

Crosby would still have more to gain from having a peak season.