Who is the NHL's Josh Smith?

MVP of West Hollywd

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Oct 28, 2008
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Smith both had terrible advanced stats and is the 2nd biggest team cancer in the league behind Lance Stephnson. I can't really think of an NHL player equivalent who fits both, Jack Johnson isn't a bad guy, he has an almost perfect equivalent in Rudy Gay who has been an advanced stats lightning rod but is well liked by teammates. Josh Smith when he was good was also far better than Jack Johnson or Rudy Gay hav ever been. If Sean Avery was an all-star caliber 30 G scorer for many years before his career fell apart he would fit.
 
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BreakingGood

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Jun 29, 2014
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What? He has great advanced stats.

Eh, his poinst/60 has dipped pretty big time. Below what JVR paces three of the last four years. Big powerplay scorer, and he doesn't drive play particularly well.

I mean, he still scores what he scores. When you score on the powerplay as well as Ovechkin, it's still a talent worth having, and I gotta figure coaching has played a role, because he looks too good to just be a meh player now.
 

BreakingGood

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Jun 29, 2014
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Okay how exactly is Jack Johnson like Josh Smith? Last I checked, Jack Johnson has nothing to do with poor shot selection and an insistence on shooting the puck all the time. Josh Smith is an example of a guy who can score from one small section of the playing field and then misses everywhere else but still shoots outside his comfort zone. Are you trying to tell me that Jack Johnson goes all Jason Blake and takes low quality shots?

You are literally ignoring what the actual point of the discussion is and just throwing out names that don't belong.

The thread doesn't ask "who in the NHL shoots from everywhere," they're asking "who in the NHL has poor advanced stats despite strong traditional stats." Since NHL advanced metrics are essentially a plus-minus of even strength shot attempts, shooting from everywhere would artificially inflate your advanced numbers. (That said, this is a pretty unlikely scenario and a high Corsi player who shoots from everywhere like Jason Blake does have some value, because shots create rebounds, and because it's evidence that he's pushing the puck into the other team's zone.)
 

KingClipper

#FireLuc #FireBlake
Jul 30, 2014
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This week the Pistons waived Smith because of his poor play. Now if you look at his main stats, they arent bad: 13 PPG and 7 boards to go with 4 assists, but many people cite his bad "advanced stats".

Not the whole story. He was vastly overpaid for his meager production by the previous GM. Both his "regular" and advanced stats were awful. In both Atlanta and Detroit, under numerous coaches, he refused to stop chucking long twos (the least efficient shot in basketball) and threes, which he simply cannot make with any regularity.

The better comparison would be a hockey player that stubbornly continues to play the entirely wrong way for his skillset no matter how hard the coach tries to convince him otherwise.
 

dirk41

Registered User
Jun 9, 2010
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The NHL equivalent has to be somebody who shoots all the time despite it being a terrible choice.

That wouldn't be the equivalent because getting a shot at the basket is much easier than getting a shot on goal.
 

tp71

Enjoy every sandwich
Feb 10, 2009
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The thread doesn't ask "who in the NHL shoots from everywhere," they're asking "who in the NHL has poor advanced stats despite strong traditional stats." Since NHL advanced metrics are essentially a plus-minus of even strength shot attempts, shooting from everywhere would artificially inflate your advanced numbers. (That said, this is a pretty unlikely scenario and a high Corsi player who shoots from everywhere like Jason Blake does have some value, because shots create rebounds, and because it's evidence that he's pushing the puck into the other team's zone.)

Yes, but its not really a good fit for who Josh Smith actually is. The thread title is who is the NHLs Josh Smith. Josh Smith is a stupid player who takes ill advised shots and doesnt listen to coaches or change his game.
 

Sarcastic

PosterOfTheYear2014
Sep 18, 2011
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The thread doesn't ask "who in the NHL shoots from everywhere," they're asking "who in the NHL has poor advanced stats despite strong traditional stats." Since NHL advanced metrics are essentially a plus-minus of even strength shot attempts, shooting from everywhere would artificially inflate your advanced numbers. (That said, this is a pretty unlikely scenario and a high Corsi player who shoots from everywhere like Jason Blake does have some value, because shots create rebounds, and because it's evidence that he's pushing the puck into the other team's zone.)

Jesus christ.

The OP asks 'who is he NHL's Josh Smith' under the wrong assumption that he is a decent player with bad advanced stats when the only thing you need is a shot chart to realize dude shoots and can't score from outside the paint yet still chucks up long 2s and 3s.

He is literally the opposite of missing every shot you don't take. He misses every shot he takes.
 
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deathtouchtrample

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May 5, 2014
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Not the whole story. He was vastly overpaid for his meager production by the previous GM. Both his "regular" and advanced stats were awful. In both Atlanta and Detroit, under numerous coaches, he refused to stop chucking long twos (the least efficient shot in basketball) and threes, which he simply cannot make with any regularity.

The better comparison would be a hockey player that stubbornly continues to play the entirely wrong way for his skillset no matter how hard the coach tries to convince him otherwise.

Ding ding ding.

Josh Smith is(was?) an awesome power forward, as seen by his prime on the Hawks. The last two years he's been playing small forward. Quite poorly.

So far Evander Kane is probably the closest mentioned. But even then he's young. Josh Smith found his lane in the NBA and excelled in it for almost a decade, then for some reason decided to completely switch to a play style he simply cannot achieve effectively as he turns 30. Quite frankly he's a very strange case study and probably will have few good comparisons in any sport.
 

BreakingGood

Registered User
Jun 29, 2014
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Jesus christ.

The OP asks 'who is he NHL's Josh Smith' under the wrong assumption that he is a decent player with bad advanced stats when the only thing you need is a shot chart to realize dude shoots and can't score from outside the paint yet still chucks up long 2s and 3s.

He is literally the opposite of missing every shot you take. He misses every shot he takes is the entire story.

Well, your last two lines contradict each other, but my point flew ten feet over your head. Basketball advanced metrics are about shooting efficiency, whereas hockey advanced statistics are about shooting volume, so the ways in which players may put up better traditional numbers than advanced numbers are the inverse of each other. While the OP was wrong to imply that Josh Smith's traditional numbers are good, 13 points per game for a starter are basically as bad as his advanced numbers, what I was saying was that people in this thread were arguing about playing style, which is an inane comparison between sports because they're strategically very dissimilar (the old adage "it's never a bad play to shoot" doesn't work in basketball), when the question explicitly stated in the OP was "who has traditional numbers (goals, assists, points) that look strong with analyitcs (Corsi, Fenwick) that are not." It's the difference between a specific statistical phenomenon which exists in every sport and a scouting report.

EDIT: basically, this thread took the question "who is like Josh Smith in that he has this statistical discrepancy" and made it "who is like Josh Smith?" and there being no 6'9" black professional basketball players from Georgia, the question seems even more immaterial. The response to this has been like seeing "who is most like Rudy Giuliani in terms of hawkish judicial policy" and then receiving a list of thrice-married Roman Catholics.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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Jack Johnson is a player with a lot of physical talent who makes a lot of bad decisions, can't seem to change his game and the team that brought him in to the league quit on him. Yeah, no similarities there.
 

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