Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Bread has a long, long way to go before he passes Leetch. Hell, I don't have Hank as passing Leetch, either.
Who is the greatest Ranger ever?
- Thread starter Filthy Dangles
- Start date
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Zubov would slot in right below Hank for me if we hadn't foolishly traded him:
1. Leetch
2. Hank
3. Zubov
4. Messier
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Hot take incoming and it's going to look like I'm shitting on Hank, but I have to disagree with the "Hank put the team on his back more" narrative.
Swap Leetch and Lundqvist. Also swap McDonagh and Richter to make it make sense. Under this hypothetical, I firmly believe the '94 team loses to the Devils and Leetch walks the Kings around on a dog leash for six games.
You could argue that's just because goaltenders just don't deviate as much as defensemen do, and you wouldn't be wrong. And yes, Messier and co. helped him get there. But when we got our best crack to end the jinx, Leetch put in, for me, comfortably a top 5 Conn Smythe in postseason history.
They both went to SCF once. Leetch had 11 points 7 games including 4 god damn even strength goals, are you kidding me? Lundqvist's SCF was average and I don't care what path you try to draw around that.
Yes, Hank got shoved up the turkey end of bad teams. So did Leetch. Probably for longer. No... definitely for longer. Leetch missed the playoffs from 1998-2004. Lundqvist was in the playoffs every year but one until the letter. Yes, because of him, but is he taking, let's say, 01-02 Rangers to the playoffs? Probably not.
Leetch was on a legit contender in '92, '94, 97', and maybe '95. Lundqvist was on a legit contender in '12, '14, '15, maybe '13 (it's a carbon copy of '95) and the '17 team went far even if they were bleh. I'm not saying Lundqvist's teams were more consistent and good for longer, but...they kinda were? Again, because of him, sure, but replace Leetch with some solid top pair D and how many rounds do his teams win?
I think, at the very least, Leetch had equal importance to his teams and put up with *more* shit. The Dark Ages significantly hurt his legacy and beyond a shadow of a doubt cost him a third Norris.
Swap Leetch and Lundqvist. Also swap McDonagh and Richter to make it make sense. Under this hypothetical, I firmly believe the '94 team loses to the Devils and Leetch walks the Kings around on a dog leash for six games.
You could argue that's just because goaltenders just don't deviate as much as defensemen do, and you wouldn't be wrong. And yes, Messier and co. helped him get there. But when we got our best crack to end the jinx, Leetch put in, for me, comfortably a top 5 Conn Smythe in postseason history.
They both went to SCF once. Leetch had 11 points 7 games including 4 god damn even strength goals, are you kidding me? Lundqvist's SCF was average and I don't care what path you try to draw around that.
Yes, Hank got shoved up the turkey end of bad teams. So did Leetch. Probably for longer. No... definitely for longer. Leetch missed the playoffs from 1998-2004. Lundqvist was in the playoffs every year but one until the letter. Yes, because of him, but is he taking, let's say, 01-02 Rangers to the playoffs? Probably not.
Leetch was on a legit contender in '92, '94, 97', and maybe '95. Lundqvist was on a legit contender in '12, '14, '15, maybe '13 (it's a carbon copy of '95) and the '17 team went far even if they were bleh. I'm not saying Lundqvist's teams were more consistent and good for longer, but...they kinda were? Again, because of him, sure, but replace Leetch with some solid top pair D and how many rounds do his teams win?
I think, at the very least, Leetch had equal importance to his teams and put up with *more* shit. The Dark Ages significantly hurt his legacy and beyond a shadow of a doubt cost him a third Norris.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Leetch to me was a guy who was probably more comfortable in that 1A role for a team. The guy who flanked the face, centerpiece, whatever we want to call him.
Lundqvist was that guy for the Rangers, for a very long time too.
When I think of Leetch, I tend to think of someone who made really good teams better. With Lundqvist it often felt like he made teams look really good --- often better than they actually were.
I can't argue passionately against either one though, I really can't.
Kreider Typical
flex
- Apr 10, 2012
- 2,664
- 128
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
I see that. And again, I don't want it to seem like shitting on Lundqvist. This is one where it's fun to debate about the race but you like both horses.
My thing with Leetch is just that I feel he really got shafted getting stuck on that '98-'04 shitfest, where, on a better team, he could have been the guy. And in a way, he was. He played 30 minutes a game in 2001 and should have won Norris. I'll die on that hill. Call up Nick Lidstrom and I'll tell him myself. It's hard to be the ringleader with no circus (or a huge circus depending on how you wanna look at it!)
I'll say this about Lundqvist, single-game performance, game 7 in Pittsburgh is up there with the guarantee. Without that, the 2014 SCF never happens. So as much as I wished Lundqvist shut the door in game 2, and I think it's valid to look his SCF and go "eh...", we're not in the SCF without that.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
While I'm doing Lundqvist takes, this was 7 years ago today and I think it's better than the Montreal save (which is also very good!)
SlingshotVv
arm-bar all the things
Conn Smythe winner the year the NYR break a 54 year drought to win the Cup. Home grown, the overall best player at his position in team history, and a player who defined this team from me in fourth grade, through college. How could I pick anyone else???
mrhockey193195
Registered User
Greatest Ranger ever is Frank Boucher in my book. The tier of players very close to him includes Bill Cook, Leetch, Lundqvist, Bathgate, and Messier. Gilbert, Ratelle, Park, Giacomin, Bun Cook, Ching Johnson, Richter, and maybe a few others are in my third tier.
Mess probably deserves to be in that third tier but I'm pretty biased.
I'm on two hours of sleep so I might be missing someone obvious.
Mess probably deserves to be in that third tier but I'm pretty biased.
I'm on two hours of sleep so I might be missing someone obvious.
Yes, Mike Keenan's one year in NY was a real disaster.
"Stats after trade" > Stanley Cup, I suppose...
Last edited:
HELL NO
I have never forgiven team or him for unnecessary deal, made to break spirit of the players just to show he could go there
Ef you emile
to your effin grave
this^
tell it, tell it
hairline edge voted Leetch over Park
Park was the better defensive D, including in ways that don't show up in the boxscore.
I still remember hip checks he gave you don't see today, hippers that literally sent people flying.
good times
And Brad, while not Orr, was a solid cog on offense
disgusting he is not better remembered by club
not his fault he was dealt
Leetch of course was Orr very lite and very good skating wise incl on def but was another level on offense.
But Park's shot was underrated.
So if I meet a girl and create utter stress for her then buy her a car..that makes it right ?? You suppose what ?? The brian Noonan mattaue trades was what Keenan wanted. I f u kept the 3 players listed above..you don't need some bimbo goal in ot in a game 7 !!! You forgot the articles in papers how the team was imploding in playoffs...benching messier n leetch..I do.
Brad Park has alot of merit....finished 2nd in norris trophy 8x in career...mind you finished 2nd to great Bobby orr some years.
Ratelleitlikeitis
Registered User
NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
My time (watching live):
Hank
Jagr
Before my time:
Richter (Name means "judge" in German, that's all you need to know. Yes, I told this "story" a million times.)
Leetch
Park (if I read history correctly, he was the second best defenseman in the world, overshadowed his entire career by Bobby Orr)
Hank
Jagr
Before my time:
Richter (Name means "judge" in German, that's all you need to know. Yes, I told this "story" a million times.)
Leetch
Park (if I read history correctly, he was the second best defenseman in the world, overshadowed his entire career by Bobby Orr)
Put it this way, if Leetch was surrounded by dog shit for most of his career the way Hank was for his, no one would be voting Leetch bc they never would have even made a cup finals let alone won one.
No one carried and embodied this franchise on their back for as long as Hank. People will always underappreciate what Hank did bc it's too easy to look at raw numbers instead of going "those numbers severely underestimate what he was doing bc look what he was surrounded by" especially bc Hank's stats always looked elite. (Guy was a vezina finalist almost every year after all)
What he did in basically every game 7 and what he did in multiple PO years while surrounded by bums is legendary beyond legendary. Just making the POs at all was legendary. Guy was constantly on bottom 5 lotto teams and dragging them kicking and screaming to round 2 of the PO
I get voting Leetch. It's easy. he's one of the GOATs in the history of hockey and he was with the NYR for a few years more than Hank but I really think Hank beats him for the above reasons
Leetch got to partner with Zubov, mess, Graves, Richter. All top talents in the entire league. Multiple legends. Not to mention guys like Kovalev, Larmer, beuk, Gartner and Nemchinov getting to play 2nd fiddle while a bunch of legends tore shit up.
Top talent wise: Hank had Jagr and Nylander both playing as top elite talents for like, 2 years
Then he had Staal, Girardi and Gabs for a year or two
Then he had Staal, Girardi, Nash, McD.
I wanna say gabs and richards too but if you remember we were all excited for gabs, richards and nash except Gabs fell off a cliff, Nash was never this elite game breaker we expected and Richards came in underperforming only to get way worse from there.
Eventually take the 3 Dmen, Stepan grew into a top talent for about two or three years and outside of that...?
Jagr was the ONLY legendary player he got to play with who actually played like a legend at the time and the depth usually wasn't there.
Even the contender NYR teams were B+ teams.
Leetch was on legendary S class rosters repeatedly, especially in 94. It skews things a ton. Shit look what happened when Leetch was asked to carry the franchise on his back with almost no help and compare that to Hank.
No one carried and embodied this franchise on their back for as long as Hank. People will always underappreciate what Hank did bc it's too easy to look at raw numbers instead of going "those numbers severely underestimate what he was doing bc look what he was surrounded by" especially bc Hank's stats always looked elite. (Guy was a vezina finalist almost every year after all)
What he did in basically every game 7 and what he did in multiple PO years while surrounded by bums is legendary beyond legendary. Just making the POs at all was legendary. Guy was constantly on bottom 5 lotto teams and dragging them kicking and screaming to round 2 of the PO
I get voting Leetch. It's easy. he's one of the GOATs in the history of hockey and he was with the NYR for a few years more than Hank but I really think Hank beats him for the above reasons
Leetch got to partner with Zubov, mess, Graves, Richter. All top talents in the entire league. Multiple legends. Not to mention guys like Kovalev, Larmer, beuk, Gartner and Nemchinov getting to play 2nd fiddle while a bunch of legends tore shit up.
Top talent wise: Hank had Jagr and Nylander both playing as top elite talents for like, 2 years
Then he had Staal, Girardi and Gabs for a year or two
Then he had Staal, Girardi, Nash, McD.
I wanna say gabs and richards too but if you remember we were all excited for gabs, richards and nash except Gabs fell off a cliff, Nash was never this elite game breaker we expected and Richards came in underperforming only to get way worse from there.
Eventually take the 3 Dmen, Stepan grew into a top talent for about two or three years and outside of that...?
Jagr was the ONLY legendary player he got to play with who actually played like a legend at the time and the depth usually wasn't there.
Even the contender NYR teams were B+ teams.
Leetch was on legendary S class rosters repeatedly, especially in 94. It skews things a ton. Shit look what happened when Leetch was asked to carry the franchise on his back with almost no help and compare that to Hank.
Last edited:
Park trade was ultimately a loser but in his defense Rangers did get to the Finals against Montreal with ESPO.
FWIW: I have fond memories of great hockey sitting up in the blues near the Chief during that time. That was EF’s doing.
My buddy and I worked summers (lol, we were 14 when we first got them) to get the cash to obtain season tickets in 1970 and kept them for 6 great years before both our families moved away from NY.
IMO: if Ratelle doesn’t break his leg mid season I believe we would have beat Boston in the Finals. He came back but just wasn’t the same.
Of course, if we had Orr versus Park we would have won too.
