Who is the best second liner of all time?

[BraveCanadian]

he played 58 games

Yeah, like I said, he was hurt.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Depends how you see it , if you're truly asking who was the greatest player ever to play on a second line at least for a couple of years because a greater player was the cornerstone of the 1st line , then I guess it's between Messier and Jagr.Am I forgetting someone?

 

[BubbaBoot]

Henri Richard spent most of his career as a second liner.

This.

Beliveau was #1 throught Richard's career.

I think Yvan Courneyor became the 2nd line RWer for his last 6-7 years, as soon as Lafleur came on the scene?

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Mikita and Hull played on separate lines for a large portion of their careers with the Hawks, so one of them was a second liner for awhile.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Depends how you see it , if you're truly asking who was the greatest player ever to play on a second line at least for a couple of years because a greater player was the cornerstone of the 1st line , then I guess it's between Messier and Jagr.Am I forgetting someone?

If Jagr counts for playing several years on a different line from Mario, then Maurice Richard would also count.

Olmstead-Beliveau-Geoffrion
Moore-Richard-Richard

Maurice did play on the first PP unit all the time, but so did Jagr once he was established.

 

[SidGenoMario]

Homer vote for Malkin. How many time periods have we had where the best player in the world was on a 2nd line?

 

[BraveCanadian]

Homer vote for Malkin. How many time periods have we had where the best player in the world was on a 2nd line?

Who Crosby?

 

[seventieslord]

It was a bit of a 1a 1b situation to be sure, but Nieuwendyk took the tradition first liner role and was central to the 1st powerplay unit. I mean I did watch them with my own eyes.

I would be very surprised that there was much difference in their ice time. That was a stacked couple of lines they could roll out. I'm assuming these are the good ole estimates, correct? What does it have them at?

For sure Doug was the better overall player, and more important in the Cup run, but my recollection is that Nieuwendyk was the more traditionally offensive center and Gilmour was the elite two way guy even then..

I just yanked out my old 1990 yearbook and it says the Flames have "arguably the best one to four group of centers in the league."

It says "No 1 is 26-year old Gilmour, who scored 85 points and produced the kind of two-way hockey the Flames wanted. In his second full season, center Joe Nieuwendyk did not succumb to the sophomore jinx. On the contrary. He became only the third player in history to score more than 50 goals in each of his first two years."

Strangely, the 1991 yearbook blurb does not mention Gilmour at all. It makes mention that the good news for the Flames is that Nieuwendyk's knee injury responded to therapy which will allow him to put off knee surgery which would have been a big blow since he had averaged 49 goals a season over his first three years. It says that the departures of Mullen and McCrimmon made the team weaker on paper and the retirements of McDonald and Peplinski left a leadership void. It says "there were signs Nieuwendyk would inherit the job, even though he is only 24". It also mentions that Gary Roberts blossomed with a 39 goal season on Nieuwendyk's line that year.

It says that Nieuwendyk, Roberts, MacInnis and Otto must realize that it is their team now.. and under the "projected leaders" section it has: Scoring: Nieuwendyk, Fighting: Tim Hunter, Hitting: Theoren Fleury, Sweating: Suter.

So maybe the perception changed between those two seasons once Nieuwendyk proved he wasn't a one season wonder or something I dunno

The estimates have Gilmour at 20.49 per game during that time, and Nieuwendyk at 18.83.

Nieuwendyk was getting 0.3 more minutes per game on the PP and Gilmour was getting 1.1 more on the PK, meaning he was getting about 0.8 more at ES.

It was definitely more of a 1A/1B situation. I'd say Gilmour was definitely better despite the goals though. He was in tougher situations on the ice and outscored Nieuwendyk 222-196 at even strength over those 4 seasons.

 

[jkrx]

Homer vote for Malkin. How many time periods have we had where the best player in the world was on a 2nd line?

If he's the best player in the world then he isn't a second liner. Thought that was pretty obvious.

 

[tjcurrie]

Joe Nieuwendyk? Spent a lot of time behind Nilsson and Gilmour in Calgary until they were both gone. Behind Modano in Dallas, and Arnott/Gomez in Jersey.

You stole my answer. I would vote Nieuwendyk.

Though it's maybe a discredit to label him a 2nd liner, the fact is he spent most of his career in that position.

You guys are right with your 1A 1B assessment though.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Nieuwendyk actually was probably the #1 center in NJ. John Madden got more ice time, but he was a checker. Nieuwendyk and Arnott never played on the team at the same time, as they were traded for each other! And Pat Burns definitely made heavier use of Nieuwendyk than he did of Scott Gomez.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Nilsson was gone by the time Nieuwendyk came to Calgary.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Peter Forsberg

 

[SidGenoMario]

If he's the best player in the world then he isn't a second liner. Thought that was pretty obvious.

Except no one, not even Bylsma, considered Crosby's line the 2nd.