Who is the best of the 6 sutters

[Jumptheshark]

of the brothers--who is the best of the 6

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[Felix Unger]

of the brothers--who is the best of the 6

I can't say whether Brian or Brent was better... But Brian was a face of a franchise, which Brent never was.

Cheers,

Dan-o

 

[MS]

1) Brian
2) Brent
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-
3) Darryl
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4) Ron
5) Duane
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6) Rich

_________

Brent had the best single season, but that was largely a factor of playing with Bossy for a year ... other than that, he never scored more than 63 points. He was the best defensively of the bunch though.

Brian was the best goalscorer, the most consistent offensive producer, and the toughest of the Sutters. If I could take one Sutter in his prime on my team for a playoff game, he's who I'd pick.

 

[Dark Shadows]

1) Brian
2) Brent
-
-
3) Darryl
-
4) Ron
5) Duane
-
6) Rich

_________

Brent had the best single season, but that was largely a factor of playing with Bossy for a year ... other than that, he never scored more than 63 points. He was the best defensively of the bunch though.

Brian was the best goalscorer, the most consistent offensive producer, and the toughest of the Sutters. If I could take one Sutter in his prime on my team for a playoff game, he's who I'd pick.

I am a Brent fan myself. That defensive play, coupled with his relegation to the lower lines most of his career(Which kept his numbers down a wee bit) are what I want in a player.

I think given more icetime and PP time would have helped his offensive numbers, instead of being stuck behind Trottier/LaFontaine for much of his Isles tenure.

 

[Big Phil]

I can't say whether Brian or Brent was better... But Brian was a face of a franchise, which Brent never was.

Cheers,

Dan-o

I think Bernie Federko was more of a face of that franchise than Brian Sutter.

For me it's Brent as a player.

And come to think of it, at the end of the day it'll be Brent as a coach too

 

[tommygunn]

Brent. He was great in the Canada Cups!

 

[MS]

I am a Brent fan myself. That defensive play, coupled with his relegation to the lower lines most of his career(Which kept his numbers down a wee bit) are what I want in a player.

I think given more icetime and PP time would have helped his offensive numbers, instead of being stuck behind Trottier/LaFontaine for much of his Isles tenure.

Claiming that Brent didn't get PP time in NYI would be a false assumption. When you look at the PGF stats, he was getting first-unit PP time from 1984 onward right through his first year in Chicago. In 1988-89, for ie., he was on the ice for 46 PP goals and Lafontaine was only in the ice for 52. This wasn't a Craig Ramsay-type case of a guy getting 60-70 points without PP time - Sutter received a ton of prime offensive minutes through most of his Islander career.

As for the defensive play, the thing to remember is that Brian was no slouch either, and finished 6th in Selke voting in his best year. So the difference there wasn't huge.

Brian Sutter was considered one of the most complete players in the NHL before injuries derailed his career post-1985. Scored 40 goals. Fought. Killed penalties. Was one of the game's best leaders. I don't think many people realize that Brian was 6th in Hart voting in 1985. Brent never had a season that was viewed in that light.

When you look at the players they were at their peak few seasons, I'd take a 35-40 goal, 200 PIM first-line LW who killed penalties and was excellent defensively, and was one of the best captains in the sport, over a 60-70 point high-end two-way #2 center who excelled defensively. But again, it's splitting hairs, and they had a very similar peak value.

 

[DFF]

Brent
Brian
Darryl
Ron
Duane
Rich

 

[seventieslord]

Absolutely Brian, and I have no doubt about that.

 

[tony d]

Brian, one of the greatest St.Louis Blues of all-time.

 

[Lunatik*]

personally I feel Brent had the best career but Brian wasn't far behind... i would rank them as follows...

1. Brent
2. Brian
3. Darryl
4. Ron
5. Duane
6. Rich

being from Lethbridge I have always loved the Sutters... there have been rumors for the better part of a decade that the twins Rich and Ron have been trying to purchase the Lethbridge Hurricanes... I also find it interesting that all 6 brothers played major junior for the Letbridge Broncos... Shaun Sutter (Brian's son) and now Brody (Duane's son) have both played played for the Lethbridge Hurricanes

and with the news of the Flames new coaching staff I also find it pretty cool that both Ryan McGill and Jamie McLennan played major junior in Lethbridge

 

[Jack DiBiase]

Gary Suter

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

IMO Daryl would have been the best if he had been healthy. I think he was a potential 50 goal man.

That said, Brian had more good years, but Brent had a better peak value. Got to go with Brent because, unlike Brian, he got to play at Canada Cups. That's telling.

 

[saskganesh]

Brent followed by Brian.

I think Duane "Dog" Sutter is most underrated.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Claiming that Brent didn't get PP time in NYI would be a false assumption. When you look at the PGF stats, he was getting first-unit PP time from 1984 onward right through his first year in Chicago. In 1988-89, for ie., he was on the ice for 46 PP goals and Lafontaine was only in the ice for 52. This wasn't a Craig Ramsay-type case of a guy getting 60-70 points without PP time - Sutter received a ton of prime offensive minutes through most of his Islander career.

As for the defensive play, the thing to remember is that Brian was no slouch either, and finished 6th in Selke voting in his best year. So the difference there wasn't huge.

Brian Sutter was considered one of the most complete players in the NHL before injuries derailed his career post-1985. Scored 40 goals. Fought. Killed penalties. Was one of the game's best leaders. I don't think many people realize that Brian was 6th in Hart voting in 1985. Brent never had a season that was viewed in that light.

When you look at the players they were at their peak few seasons, I'd take a 35-40 goal, 200 PIM first-line LW who killed penalties and was excellent defensively, and was one of the best captains in the sport, over a 60-70 point high-end two-way #2 center who excelled defensively. But again, it's splitting hairs, and they had a very similar peak value.

Brent Sutter was used on the PP true, however, he was not a primary PP player, and thus, did not play with the puck moving Defensemen and better forwards. During most of his tenure, Bossy, Trottier, LaFontaine, Potvin and Persson/Jonsson were on the top PP. Once Bossy left, Mikko Makela took his spot on the top PP, and it was not until the year you mentioned 88-89 that he was on the top PP. Brent Sutter was generally not top 5 on the PP during his prime years except for the year Trottier was injured.

Even so, his primary role was still as a checking line center, playing defense most of the time, not attacking like his brother on the top lines.

Don't get me wrong, Brian Sutter was very good too. I just give a slight edge to Brent. I will point out that one aspect of your argument is flawed. Brian Sutter was not a penalty killer. According to the data, he was only killing penalties regularly in 83-84, 84-85 and 87-88. In every other year, his presence on the PK was near non-existent.

Another argument I have is that Brent played his game more cleanly. I know you will attribute Brian's penalty minutes to "leadership" but really, there is only so far that argument will go. Brent rarely exceeded 70 PIM while shutting down the opposing teams top line players and putting up similar but slightly less offense, while Brian on more offensive lines, was getting tagged with 160-250 PIM

 

[MS]

Brent Sutter was used on the PP true, however, he was not a primary PP player, and thus, did not play with the puck moving Defensemen and better forwards. During most of his tenure, Bossy, Trottier, LaFontaine, Potvin and Persson/Jonsson were on the top PP. Once Bossy left, Mikko Makela took his spot on the top PP, and it was not until the year you mentioned 88-89 that he was on the top PP. Brent Sutter was generally not top 5 on the PP during his prime years except for the year Trottier was injured.

Even so, his primary role was still as a checking line center, playing defense most of the time, not attacking like his brother on the top lines.

Don't get me wrong, Brian Sutter was very good too. I just give a slight edge to Brent. I will point out that one aspect of your argument is flawed. Brian Sutter was not a penalty killer. According to the data, he was only killing penalties regularly in 83-84, 84-85 and 87-88. In every other year, his presence on the PK was near non-existent.

Another argument I have is that Brent played his game more cleanly. I know you will attribute Brian's penalty minutes to "leadership" but really, there is only so far that argument will go. Brent rarely exceeded 70 PIM while shutting down the opposing teams top line players and putting up similar but slightly less offense, while Brian on more offensive lines, was getting tagged with 160-250 PIM

Check the PP numbers again.

What you say is true in 1986-87 and 1987-88.

But Sutter was amongst the top 3 forwards on his team in PGF in the other 7 of 9 seasons from 1984-1993. In other words, he was pretty clearly a first-unit guy for the better part of a decade.

As for the PIM stuff - well, Brian took a lot of fighting majors. Generally, with players like Neely/Shanahan/Tkachuk/Roberts, that sort of play is considered an asset, but I agree that it isn't really here nor there. He was considered a great leader for more than just his PIM totals, though.

Brian started killing penalties regularly when he was 26 and was good enough at it that he finished 6th in Selke voting in 1985. Unfortunately, his career was ruined by injuries after that point. If he played until the age of 35 like his brother did, he would have been a prime PK guy for much longer. It's also worth noting that star players in the late '70s/early '80s rarely killed penalties. That trend changed when Gretzky etc. started piling up the SHG. Even a guy like Trottier was only a regular PK guy in 2 of his first 8 NHL seasons.

Again, Brian was one of the best all-around players in the sport in the early-mid 1980s and was 6th in Hart voting in 1985. And I'd take him over Brent in their primes for the same reasons I'd take Gary Roberts over Mike Peca in their primes.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Check the PP numbers again.

What you say is true in 1986-87 and 1987-88.

But Sutter was amongst the top 3 forwards on his team in PGF in the other 7 of 9 seasons from 1984-1993. In other words, he was pretty clearly a first-unit guy for the better part of a decade.

Certainly. I am not saying he was not ever playing on the PP, but between 1981 and 1988, he was on the second PP unit, not the first, and thus was playing with the lesser PP puck moving defensemen/Quarterbacks and not with the top forwards(Excluding the 85 year when he replced Trottier on the first line.

In the meantime, the more pressing matter would be his lack of offensive linemates while 5 on 5. He was never a 1st line player save that one year. Mere misfortune that the team had 2 great centers in front of him at all times, but Brian did not have that problem, as he was usually on the first line with Federko.

Brent's numbers as a 3rd line center(Behind trottier/Bourne) were in the 40-50 point area. After Bourne was gone and he moved to 2nd line duties with more offensive uptime(Yet still used in a checking role) his numbers were more regularly around 60-65 points. One would assume given 1st line offensive duties more often with the better forwards like Brian had in Federko that it may jump his point total up 5-10 points into numbers similar to Brian's.


Defensively I would agree they are very close.

As for the PIM stuff - well, Brian took a lot of fighting majors. Generally, with players like Neely/Shanahan/Tkachuk/Roberts, that sort of play is considered an asset, but I agree that it isn't really here nor there. He was considered a great leader for more than just his PIM totals, though.

Brian started killing penalties regularly when he was 26 and was good enough at it that he finished 6th in Selke voting in 1985. Unfortunately, his career was ruined by injuries after that point. If he played until the age of 35 like his brother did, he would have been a prime PK guy for much longer. It's also worth noting that star players in the late '70s/early '80s rarely killed penalties. That trend changed when Gretzky etc. started piling up the SHG. Even a guy like Trottier was only a regular PK guy in 2 of his first 8 NHL seasons.

Its really a "what if" situaton.

Brian never started killing Penalties until 83-84. According to the Data, the only years he was a steady penalty killer was 83-84, 84-85, and his final year 87-88. In every other year in his 12 year career, he was not a penalty Killer.

If they used him in more of a 2nd/3rd line and PK role with the lesser linemates like the Isles did with Brent, then it is feasible that his numbers would drop by 5-10 points a season.

Injuries are sad and all. But them's the breaks. When it comes right down to it, Brent was effective at what he did for 11 years or so. Brian was effective at what he did for 7 years. Their peaks are close in my book, so the longevity edge pushes Brent over him by a tad.

Again, Brian was one of the best all-around players in the sport in the early-mid 1980s and was 6th in Hart voting in 1985. And I'd take him over Brent in their primes for the same reasons I'd take Gary Roberts over Mike Peca in their primes.

Ill go a bit off topic here in my response.

Hart voting 6th overall is very arbitrary. By 6th overall, you can say "6th overall in voting" or you can say he received 5 votes out of 61. The fact that he received a 1st place vote to begin with has me skeptical that the 3 Blues journalists were not being unbiased. Gretzky did score 73 goals and 208 points after all, and the only 1st place voter he did not receive was that one.

This came up the other day in fact(About a different player), but if you did not get at least 10 Hart votes out of 61, then I don't consider it to be very telling. Modern voting is much more telling because you have hundreds of voters instead of simply 3 from each city, and 5th place votes instead of stopping at 3rd