Who is more overrated: Robinson or Bossy?

[blitzkriegs]

...yes, HOF's are now critiqued by a generation that is limited to exposure of such players to video game 'historical teams.'

 

[arrbez]

Bossy is far from overrated. Top 10 player ever.

Granted, I never saw him play, but I think you'd have an awful hard time putting him in the top 10 hockey players ever. Maybe just among forwards, and even then he'd have some stiff competition

From what I've gathered, Trottier and Potvin seem to be held in higher regard

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Granted, I never saw him play, but I think you'd have an awful hard time putting him in the top 10 hockey players ever. Maybe just among forwards, and even then he'd have some stiff competition

From what I've gathered, Trottier and Potvin seem to be held in higher regard

I absolutely hated Mike Bossy, but let me tell you, if my life was on the line and I needed a goal, there is absolutely no one I've seen that I would rather have putting stick to puck. Bossy's career is less noted than Trottier's because it was cut so short, otherwise he'd be even more revered.

I always thought that the guy looked very deficient in either iron or some other vital mineral..

 

[bossy22]

Granted, I never saw him play, but I think you'd have an awful hard time putting him in the top 10 hockey players ever. Maybe just among forwards, and even then he'd have some stiff competition

From what I've gathered, Trottier and Potvin seem to be held in higher regard

No one will ever score 50+ in 9 consecutive seasons again. No one!
Sure Bossy had great teammates and an exceptional (and underrated) pivot in Trottier but he was and remains one of the best natural shooters and goalscorers of all time. I can think of 2 maybe 3 players in history that rival the quickness of his shot release. His hands and stick were in the air before plenty of goalies and goal judges knew the puck was in the net.

Well if anything, I'd say Mike Bossy is extremely underrated.

 

[NYC Aim 4588]

Jeez to see these 2 guys almost unanimously on all-time lists really boggles the mind when you consider that when they played it was a different story.

Robinson:

A fantastic player and individual;

Had a superb shot which he could step into at full speed.
Enormous but sporadic hitter. Devastating fighter rarely challenged.
Huge reach and speed made getting by him difficult if not impossible for forwards

Was class act who was deeply respected by the opposition.Other players after about 1980 wouldnt hit him out of respect. His head injury which led to the wearing of a helmet is a good example. When he fell, the fighting going on around him stopped as everyone was concerned for him.

But suffered from mental lapses possibly from overwork. Didnt really standout much from Lapointe or Savard during glory years. Lapointe was an allstar who could really lug the puck; Savard a Smythe winner.

Made huge gaff OT Game 1 Semis 1975 or else could have been 5 in a row. Gave puck away a lot.

Bottom line: was really just another Big 3 member albeit likely the best one but not by much. His post retirement rise is helped by peaking at right time during dynasty.

Bossy:

Was a premier sniper who could score at will, bouncing puck, tough checking, playoffs etc. Don't have much else good to say.

Was weak defensively. Never dominated a single game, N-e-v-e-r. Always needed to be set up. Couldnt stickhandle or cut at speed. Every see him dance away from 5 players and score a timely goal?

Bottom line: was greatly assisted by starting out on an expansion team (imagine Lafleur in Oakland ?) and by playing with the best all round player of his generation and the best defensiveman.

His stock has greatly risen after retirement based on inflated 80's stats.


Bossy gets my vote for more overated

I wont even waste my time voting as I see this poll only has 7 or so votes I wonder why?
Niether one is over-rated as from I know more about Bossy 9 straight 50 plus goal seasons, yeah thats over rated , . Both these guys are HOF's . And you are neither joking about this or you just like starting ****** polls.

Now if you asked who would you think is more valuable or something along those lines, but over-rated is the wrong term to use

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

Bossy's PPG is third best all-time.

How can chooch call him overrated?

Because he was a defensive liability? Well Mario is his vote for best of all-time so bringing down othe rplayers for their lack of defense is rather silly...

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Bossy's PPG is third best all-time.

How can chooch call him overrated?

Because he was a defensive liability? Well Mario is his vote for best of all-time so bringing down othe rplayers for their lack of defense is rather silly...

Please, Dr., be quiet. This particular patient is especially unstable and will be up all night if you disturb him. The medication doesn't seem to be having any effect on his desire to make impotent attempts at being controversial or causing trouble for the other, less seriously disturbed patients.

 

[Epsilon]

Neither guy is overrated. If I had to pick one as "more overrated" though I would go for Bossy, just because I'd guess most people would have him ahead of Robinson on "best ever" lists, and I'd have it the other way round.

 

[arrbez]

I absolutely hated Mike Bossy, but let me tell you, if my life was on the line and I needed a goal, there is absolutely no one I've seen that I would rather have putting stick to puck. Bossy's career is less noted than Trottier's because it was cut so short, otherwise he'd be even more revered.

I always thought that the guy looked very deficient in either iron or some other vital mineral..

Nobody will argue that he's arguably the best pure goal-scorer ever, but I get the impression that his game wasn't up there with Trottier and Potvin as far as completeness.

I still say it would be damn near impossible to fit him in the top 10 players of all time at any position. Gretz, Lemieux, Howe, and probably Richard, Beliveau, Hull would be ahead of him. And that's not even including defenseman and goalies

top 10 forwards: possibly
top 10 scorers: easily
top 10 players: I just can't see it

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Nobody will argue that he's arguably the best pure goal-scorer ever, but I get the impression that his game wasn't up there with Trottier and Potvin as far as completeness.

I still say it would be damn near impossible to fit him in the top 10 players of all time at any position. Gretz, Lemieux, Howe, and probably Richard, Beliveau, Hull would be ahead of him. And that's not even including defenseman and goalies

top 10 forwards: possibly
top 10 scorers: easily
top 10 players: I just can't see it

I wasn't arguing his precise place in the circle of life, just arguing the preposterous notion of the thread starter that either of these players is "over-rated".

 

[WillardJFredricks]

I don't think either were anything close to over-rated, both are among the all-time greats for good reason. I voted for Robinson simply because I think Bossy was better.

 

[chooch*]

Neither guy is overrated. If I had to pick one as "more overrated" though I would go for Bossy, just because I'd guess most people would have him ahead of Robinson on "best ever" lists, and I'd have it the other way round.

you and mcphee came closest to understanding what I was saying. There's a another thread on dream teams or somethng where Bossy and Robinson are always noted. Well, i hate to say this but when they were actually playing Robinson was part of a Big Three and I dont see Lapointe hardly mentioned at all. Thats strange.

And Trottier is hardly mentioned at all also and Bossy is always.

Funny because Trotts was the superior and more valuable player. Add in Potvin and Bossy is the third most valuable Islander much less a top ten all time player (I know the guys who say he is never n-e-v-e-r saw him play).

Thats teh message - some guys grow in stature for no reason. Not taking anything away anything from 19 and 22.

 

[norrisnick]

I'd say it's a tossup between Lemieux and Lafleur.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

I'd say it's a tossup between Lemieux and Lafleur.

Which driver imperiled the lives of more small children?? : Lemieux or Lafleur

 

[Darth Milbury]

d

Bossy:

Was a premier sniper who could score at will, bouncing puck, tough checking, playoffs etc. Don't have much else good to say.

Was weak defensively. Never dominated a single game, N-e-v-e-r. Always needed to be set up. Couldnt stickhandle or cut at speed. Every see him dance away from 5 players and score a timely goal?

Bottom line: was greatly assisted by starting out on an expansion team (imagine Lafleur in Oakland ?) and by playing with the best all round player of his generation and the best defensiveman.

His stock has greatly risen after retirement based on inflated 80's stats.


Bossy gets my vote for more overated

I'm sorry, but you don't even know what you are talking about.

First of all, Bossy did dominate many games. There were nights when he basically scored everytime he touched the puck. I remember one night against Philly when he was scoring so much that they basically had to send out Dave Hoya to attack him (which resulted in the the benches clearing) to keep him off the scoresheet.

Yes, I saw him break away from players and yes I saw him stickhandle. He was strong in all fundamentals (at least offensively). He had the rap of being a garbage goal scorer and depending entirely on his release, but you don't score 60 goals a season without having high end offensive skills.

He was very one-dimensional when he broke into the league. Over time, however, he became a much more complete player. He was never as talented a defensive player as a Jarri Kurri or Brian Trottier, but he was not "weak defensively.

Always needed to be set up? Dependent on other players? Bossy scored 60 goals one year with Trottier on the IR the entire year. If anything, it was Bossy that made Trottier's offensive stats, rather than the other way around.

I'm going to have to coclude that you simply never saw Bossy play in his prime.

 

[kruezer]

Which driver imperiled the lives of more small children?? : Lemieux or Lafleur

Hmmm, tough to say.

The question I have is who has a better (cigarette) packs per game (day) average?

/out

 

[c-carp]

I dont think either are overrated at all you are going to get flamed for this one big time.

 

[Trottier]

Darth just about said it all as far as Bossy's game. He was a complete player by the time he hit his mid-20s; Al Arbour saw to it. Just happened to be the most natural goal scorer of his time besides that. No less authorities than #99, #66 and Ray Bourque have stated as much.

And, sorry to get on the sopabox again, but how can the concept of "he (insert whatever player you wish) played with a great linemate" even be introduced into the conversation by anyone with a scintilla of knowledge about the game? What the heck is the point? Did Bossy have to play with a parapalegic as his center and still produce 50+ goals for nine straight seasons before he could be considered great?

"Yes, but he had great linemates. He played on a great team." The two weakest lines ever uttered.

 

[bossy22]

I very pleased that the majority of posters find this thread ridiculous.

He's some more info as to why Bossy is overrated.

In 1977-78 as a rookie, Bossy scored 53 goals. Only two players in the history of the NHL have recorded 50+.

2nd all-time highest goals per game career average - .762
573g, 752gp, from 1977-78 - 1986-87

3rd all-time highest points per game career average - 1.497
1,126pts (573g-553a), 752gp from 1978-79 - 1986-87

2nd Most points by a right wing, one season
147 - Mike Bossy, NY Islanders, 1981-82. 80 game schedule (Jagr had 149 in 82 games)

1st most Consecutive 50+ goal seasons - 9
1977-78 - 1985-86
Write this one down as untouchable. Only Gretzky came close and no one will ever touch it! In his 10th and final season he only managed 38 goals in 63 games and played with a bad back that would have kept most players out for the season!

Most 60 or more goals seasons - 5
Tied with some guy named Gretzky

2nd Most consecutive 60 or more goal seasons - 3
2nd to some guy named Gretzky

Tied for 4th all-time Most 100 or more point seasons - 7
Only played 10 years

Tied for 2nd all-time Most consecutive 100 or more point seasons - 6
1980-81 - 1985-86.

3rd all-time Most three-or-more goal games, career - 39
behing Gretzky and Lemieux

2nd Most three-or-more goal games, one season - 9
Gretzky had 10. Had 3 4-goal games that year.

I am against any personal attacks on these boards but I find it very difficult to restrain myself here. My apoligies in advance to HFBoards and chooch.

Get a grip on reality and and know what the f** you are talking about before you post such BS threads. Overrated!!!!!!!!!!!

The guy is arguabley the best goal scorer in the history of the NHL. Period!

http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/hockey/nhlrecords/indivrecords.html
http://www.hockeydb1.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=487

 

[BM67]

Mike Bossy was +381 in his 10 year career. That gives him the highest per season +/- average among forwards at +38.1.

"But the best thing about Bossy is the way he has improved himself," says coach Al Arbour. "He came to us strictly as a scorer but now he's so good defensively that I don't hesitate to use him killing penalties." - NHL Pro Hockey '82-83

 

[KOVALEV10*]

Both were great players and part of the top 20 best players ever. Robinson was a better defenseman then Bossy was a forward so that's why I'll say Bossy was more overrated although both were terrific. (Note Larry Robinson is arguably a top 6 defenseman while Bossy is hard pressed to crack top 10 forwards)

 

[mcphee]

I know that part of the reason this board exists is to debate 'who the best' was. I think that most of us realize that though it is fun, it is not purely definable. Ogo and some others define players by contribution, but circumstance dictates so much of a player's career that you can't be exact. Purely as a scorer,stick to the back of the net,Bossy can be part of the greatest goal scoreer arguement with #99,66 and all the usual suspects. Trottier was a great player who was solid in all assets of the game. Chooch says Trottier was a better player. Why ? I imagine because he did more things, thus the elusive 'complete player' we all gush over. The most complete player isn't necessarily the best player. I don't know how you measure that. They were a duo. they complimented each other. Who would I draft for my team ? Depends on who I already have. If either is drafted by a different team or if either doesn't have a player similar to the other to play with,how do they progress. Robinson was part of the greatest trio of d men ever on one team. I think, in retrospect, he got to freelance the most, as Savard would encourage Larry to 'go' knowing he'd be back there to cover up. Lapointe seemd to pair with the developing young guy more than the other 2 and I'm not sure why. Maybe Bowman thought it gave him the most balance. I think Lapointe is underrated historically a bit, maybe because he's been less visible than Larry over the last 15 years. Around but not as front and centre. Ask any Bruin fans from those days,their biggest rival by far, how good Lapointe was. The 70's Habs weren't the type of team that was defined by one player. They had a great defense, I don't remember arguing much about who was better. Robinson may have been the popular favorite because he had that larger than life Big Bird persona, but he earned the popularity. Again,if I'm drafting a team,of the 3 I'd start with Larry,but as long as I got one of them I wouldn't care.

Can someone confirm that I'm not having an acid flashback. Did Bucky say Poopy Head ?

 

[Trottier]

Chooch says Trottier was a better player. Why ? I imagine because he did more things, thus the elusive 'complete player' we all gush over. The most complete player isn't necessarily the best player.

Good point. Trottier remains the most complete forward I've ever seen (with Pete Forsberg a close second). But as great a player as he was, an all-timer, I would never put him in the conversation with #99, #66 and #4. In very rare instances, greatness transcends our traditional view of what a hockey player should be, as evidenced by the case of #99 and #66. To even bring up defensive prowess or physical play when discussing those two is insane. It's like suggesting that Michael Jordan was a flawed basketball player because he never led the league in assists or rebounds.

Likewise, however, there is a wealth of posters on this board (I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest moreso GenX hockey fans), who value (rate) players strictly based upon their offensive production. Hence the term "fantasy league mentality." Some misintepret that as a pseudo-intellectual hockey cheapshot; I consider it Hockey 101: what does the player contribute when he possesses the puck...AND when he doesn't? The latter is often lost in today's conversation. And unless your name is Gretzky, Lemieux and perhaps a few others, it must be considered.

Back to Bossy: he lasted until the mid-teens of the first round of '77 solely because he had a well-deserved rep as a one-way sniper from the Quebec League. He went on to become a legend and a complete hockey player. Read BM67's post, the Arbour nugget of a quote that he somehow uncovered from the middle of the Isles' dynasty years. That's all you need to know.

Greats like Bossy and Robinson deserve better than to have their reputations besmirched in any way by some absurd thread like this. The very idea of seeing either of their names in the same sentence as "overrated" is embarassing to read.

In a day and age when Sidney Crosby is deemed a superstar by many overzealous fans before he skates his first NHL shift, best if those of us old enough to remember do not disrespect true greats in any way.

This is not some old-timer clinging to the distant past; I want Crosby to become a great. It's simply common (oldtime, if you like) respect.

Just my opinion.

PS - This was not intended as a personal shot at Chooch; though I may not always agree with his opinions, I respect his hockey knowledge. I just think his premise was way off on this one.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Nice post Trottier.Sorry about the Milbury thing.As for chooch's survey...

 

[chooch*]

I dont think either are overrated at all you are going to get flamed for this one big time.

At least I dont see anyone saying I'm biased towards French Canadians here.

I said a lot of nice things about both players and the truth includes the bad. Live with it.

The guys who didnt want to hear a year ago that New Orleans needed bigger levees have the same mentality as those who dont want anyone to write that Bossy coudnt stickhandle, pass, check, etc. or that Robinson was about the same as Lapointe and Savard.

It got wrote, baby.