Who Hurt Their All-Time Rank by Playing Too Long?

[MXD]

The first names that came to mind are Mike Milbury, Réjean Houle and Kevin Lowe.
I'm voluntarily being off-topic.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

If Roy retired after 2001 winning Conn Smythe and outplaying Brodeur by a mile in the cup final is his reputation even bigger?

2002 was a very good season stats wise but everyone remembers game 6 and 7 against Detroit then lost to the Wild in round one the next season.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

can you imagine the legend of tim thomas if he'd just abruptly retired to his militia compound after the 2011 finals and we never heard from him again?

 

[Professor What]

Mike Milbury

On ice and on camera?

 

[GMR]

If Roy retired after 2001 winning Conn Smythe and outplaying Brodeur by a mile in the cup final is his reputation even bigger?

2002 was a very good season stats wise but everyone remembers game 6 and 7 against Detroit then lost to the Wild in round one the next season.

Roy is regarded as either #1 or #2. Same with Hasek. So you're basically asking whether he'd be a near unanimous #1 if he doesn't play in 2002 and 2003? I doubt it. Hasek would still have the higher peak. Also, Roy's regular seasons were very good in 2002 and 2003. The game 7 loss in 2002 looks bad, but I don't believe that game is why some rank Hasek above Roy.

 

[Professor What]

Roy is regarded as either #1 or #2. Same with Hasek. So you're basically asking whether he'd be a near unanimous #1 if he doesn't play in 2002 and 2003? I doubt it. Hasek would still have the higher peak. Also, Roy's regular seasons were very good in 2002 and 2003. The game 7 loss in 2002 looks bad, but I don't believe that game is why some rank Hasek above Roy.

As someone who ever so slightly favors Hasek for #1, allow me to say that you're right in my case. That game has absolutely zero to do with it. The same can be said for the 2003 series. I just so happen to ever so slightly like the entire case for Hasek better than Roy. A game here and there is a drop in the bucket at most in the whole equation.

 

[MadLuke]

I don't think he'd be a revered legend. Unless you're a Gretzky or Lemieux type, you're not getting in the HOF after 8 seasons.

Mike Bossy and Lafleur would have after their 8th season I think (and Lafleur did not get out of the gate), Pavel Bure and Cam Neely played a bit longer but have around 8 and half worth of regular season played. Ovechkin, Crosby, McDavid after 8 season probably will have an HOF career. Maybe not revered legend for Robitaille, cup and "gold medal" less player becoming legend can have an hard time and something very spectacular player like the Bure-Neely can achieve.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

I worshiped Yzerman as a kid and looking back I think he should've retired after the 2002 Cup run.

He scored 48 points in 52 games that year, which is very respectable for a 36, almost 37, year old in the DPE. Scores 23 in 23 in the playoffs, should've called it then.

Instead, he has the osteotomy after the season and comes back for about 20 games in 02-03.

So now, we're watching the guy play with essentially one knee, he gets hit in the eye by the Schneider slap shot in the 04 playoffs. Still comes back after the lockout with a hardass Babcock (I remember something in the press back then about Yzerman and Shanahan especially not liking his style) for a coach and seemingly struggles to adapt to the new NHL, at one point saying the game lost it's integrity with the new rules.

BUT THEN!

He catches fire, scoring 14 points in the final 13 games of the season, adding 4 points in 4 playoff games, causing me to think, "Hey, the old man has still got something left in him for next year". However, stupid Dwayne Roloson and Chris Pronger had to go and ruin everything.

To bring this all home, I don't necessarily think Yzerman hurt his legacy playing out those final years as a shell of the player he was, but he certainly didn't help it either.

 

[Big Phil]

I don't know, does it hurt their rank? Not sure. Legacy? Maybe. I think Messier's legacy is better if he retired in 1997. Coffey too. Then again, how many people rail on about how Coffey wasn't the same player in his late 30s? Sometimes it is just optics. But does it mean Coffey slips out of the top 10 defensemen of all-time rankings? I don't think so.

I guess the complete opposite happened with Andreychuk, at least from the media's perspective. I thought he hung around too long, but he got that Cup in the end and that sort of made the media - for the first time in his career - call him a future HHOFer. At the time I was like "Come again?"

Or Patrick Marleau, who will likely get into the HHOF (not that I agree with it) based on this past season passing Gordie Howe for most games played. Despite having a very forgettable season.

I think a lot of stars in the past did it right. Gretzky had dropped a couple of notches in the 1990s (by his standards) in different years but I think 1999 was the first time when people realized that he isn't even mid 1990s Wayne anymore, and he retired. Rocket Richard did more or less the same thing in 1960. We barely saw these guys at a sub-standard level and I don't think they liked it either.

Or guys like Ciccarelli or Gartner. I never thought of them as the types to pad their stats. They hit the 600 and 700 goal plateau the right way I thought. And once they realized they weren't very good scorers anymore they pretty much immediately retired after that season.

 

[JackSlater]

I worshiped Yzerman as a kid and looking back I think he should've retired after the 2002 Cup run.

He scored 48 points in 52 games that year, which is very respectable for a 36, almost 37, year old in the DPE. Scores 23 in 23 in the playoffs, should've called it then.

Instead, he has the osteotomy after the season and comes back for about 20 games in 02-03.

So now, we're watching the guy play with essentially one knee, he gets hit in the eye by the Schneider slap shot in the 04 playoffs. Still comes back after the lockout with a hardass Babcock (I remember something in the press back then about Yzerman and Shanahan especially not liking his style) for a coach and seemingly struggles to adapt to the new NHL, at one point saying the game lost it's integrity with the new rules.

BUT THEN!

He catches fire, scoring 14 points in the final 13 games of the season, adding 4 points in 4 playoff games, causing me to think, "Hey, the old man has still got something left in him for next year". However, stupid Dwayne Roloson and Chris Pronger had to go and ruin everything.

To bring this all home, I don't necessarily think Yzerman hurt his legacy playing out those final years as a shell of the player he was, but he certainly didn't help it either.

I don't think that Yzerman's late career did his reputation any harm (if anything even the hobbled 2002 Yzerman helped his legacy a lot) but I do think that the second half of his career has made people misunderstand the player that he was. It seems to me that most people consider him as a Toews and don't recall or aren't aware that he was the rich man's MacKinnon for a decade.

 

[Big Phil]

I don't think he'd be a revered legend. Unless you're a Gretzky or Lemieux type, you're not getting in the HOF after 8 seasons.

Bill Durnan? Ken Dryden?

 

[The Macho King]

I think there are a few players who current fans may not appropriately appreciate because they saw their latter days - Chelios probably most notably, but maybe also a guy like Rob Blake? But I think generally *on here* we're pretty good about contextualizing their peaks and primes. Honestly hockey is one of those sports where - outside of goaltender - you still have plenty of chances to contribute post prime in a way that you aren't a drag to keep on a roster to play third and fourth line minutes.

 

[c9777666]

Bryan Trottier if he hung it up after the Pens 1992 Cup instead of an unnecessary 1993-94 return stint

the last image of him should have been a proven winner going out on top with another Cup ala 71 Beliveau

 

[tarheelhockey]

What if Chelios retired at age 40 after the 2002 cup and a Norris runner-up finish instead of playing 7 more years

TBH I think a lot of younger fans know who Chelios is specifically because of that period when he was the senior citizen of pro hockey. Kind of like Jagr has a celebrity among younger fans that comes almost entirely from his post-KHL phase.

 

[McGarnagle]

TBH I think a lot of younger fans know who Chelios is specifically because of that period when he was the senior citizen of pro hockey. Kind of like Jagr has a celebrity among younger fans that comes almost entirely from his post-KHL phase.

That's the thing. When someone mentions Chelios the word association is basically the old guy who played until he was 48. If you asked someone in 1995 or 2000 it would've been HOF franchise defenseman. But maybe it doesn't matter in the end.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Joe Thornton could be falling into that category. He's had an Andreychuk-like last five seasons and Andreychuk just gets constantly raked over the coals as a hanger-on/compiler.

Guys that could've played their whole careers for one team but jump ship right at the end: Modano, Alfredsson, Brodeur, Federko, Marleau. Maybe Ray Bourque.

Guys that really, really bounced around from team to team at the end: Gilmour, Barrasso, Recchi, Iginla, Coffey (as mentioned). Jagr seems kind of immune from this effect.

That all being said, it is their life/career to do what they wish.

My Best-Carey

Bourque didnt hurt his legacy. He vastly improved it by winning a Cup finally.

He actually retired at the very best moment. Still a great D, arguably top 10D and retires as a champion instead of holding on a just a veteran precense.

I actually cant think of a worse example honestly

 

[Barnum]

Bourque didnt hurt his legacy. He vastly improved it by winning a Cup finally.

He actually retired at the very best moment. Still a great D, arguably top 10D and retires as a champion instead of holding on a just a veteran precense.

I actually cant think of a worse example honestly

Not only that but walking away with the Cup in his final game but he came in 2nd for the Norris behind Lidstrom and was awarded a 1st team selection. I wish all players that stuck around too long had seasons like that.

 

[MadLuke]

Also I would imagine, almost by definition, if it happen for those for who it is the case it is unconscious, if the later part of a player career teint someone view of them, they probably do not see it that it does and would not like to admit it, we love to think of ourself as rational and good in analys, close to objectif and so on.

 

[The Panther]

Is this sort of a more a "thing" in hockey than in other pro-sports? It just strikes me that in hockey, more elite players play longer into their post-primes (and sometimes way past even that) than in basketball, soccer, baseball... (not sure about football as I loathe that sport).

Thus, we end up with so many Hall of Famers who extended their careers not just one or two, but in most cases, several seasons well past their primes.

 

[MadLuke]

Is this sort of a more a "thing" in hockey than in other pro-sports? It just strikes me that in hockey, more elite players play longer into their post-primes (and sometimes way past even that) than in basketball, soccer, baseball... (not sure about football as I loathe that sport).

Most others sports have a very distinctive starting versus bench with a very high bar to be able to be a member of the starting team than say be in a top 9 forward or regular D and for something like basketball or soccer roster are not that big. A legend need to accept to not play most of games to continue their career in those sports is a bigger binary on-off than reduced and sheltered minutes.

Just a rapid thought and if that angle is true, we will see less of it at the goaltending position than the others position.

 

[The Panther]

Most others sports have a very distinctive starting versus bench with a very high bar to be able to be a member of the starting team than say be in a top 9 forward or regular and for something like basketball or soccer roster are not that big.

Just a rapid thought and if that angle is true, we will see less of it at the goaltending position than the others position.

Yes, I guess you are right.

In that context, it might be interesting to consider which forwards were "1st line" players the longest.

 

[Iapyi]

I think there are a few players who current fans may not appropriately appreciate because they saw their latter days - Chelios probably most notably, but maybe also a guy like Rob Blake? But I think generally *on here* we're pretty good about contextualizing their peaks and primes. Honestly hockey is one of those sports where - outside of goaltender - you still have plenty of chances to contribute post prime in a way that you aren't a drag to keep on a roster to play third and fourth line minutes.

Bryan Trottier if he hung it up after the Pens 1992 Cup instead of an unnecessary 1993-94 return stint

the last image of him should have been a proven winner going out on top with another Cup ala 71 Beliveau

After reading the OP I had my brain exactly on this and Bryan Trottier in particular.

Trottier is obviously one of the all-time best two players in the history of the game. The fact his points per season went down so appreciably is something he clearly didn't care about.

He was a big component on Pittsburghs 2 cups when he played for them.

I specifically remember watching and admiring his play in his final seasons as a guy who didn't care about getting points and playing a role on the team.

He verified to me what a team player is all about going from the main dude to a role player.

He just wanted to play hockey and be competitive. His experience and defensive fortitude was a large factor in the Pens winning those cups and I appreciate that his mind-set was just that.

I'm a bit taken aback at posters *on here* putting so much emphasis on how many points some of these guys scored in their later seasons IF they were still a positive contributor to their team albeit in a different manner.

Now if someone isn't doing that I suspect the team would just not utilize them. Can anyone see a guy like Kessel playing once he isn't getting points? I doubt any team would even want him whereas a guy like Toews can still be productive without scoring points.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

Bryan Trottier if he hung it up after the Pens 1992 Cup instead of an unnecessary 1993-94 return stint

the last image of him should have been a proven winner going out on top with another Cup ala 71 Beliveau

Agreed on Trottier. I don't think he returns for that season if he managed his finances better.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i think a lot of us would have preferred guys' careers to end perfectly. trottier after his sixth cup, andreychuk after his only cup, brodeur on the devils, modano on the stars, alfredsson on the sens, and so on.

but i don't think any of their all-time rankings were affected in the slightest by playing that last season, or those last few games.

 

[Albatros]

Trottier's case is more like if Modano came back a year after retiring and then still moved on to try his luck in pro roller hockey afterwards.