Speculation: Who Has Improved (If Anyone) Since Last Year?

Chainshot

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So one of the issues I have had (I know, there are many) with this team is who has shown improvement either from the previous regime to this one or from last season to this?

Reinhart? While his point and shot production has seen more plays converted, it seems like his in-zone puck security has definitely taken a hit. The points are there, puck possession is there, but it seems like only an incremental improvement from last season IMO.

Jack's grown. Then again, it's his fourth year which is traditionally a point that players hit their peak seasons.

Rodrigues? Eh, in and out of the lineup and his production isn't even to last year's standards.

Larsson? I'd argue he's had the biggest bounce back from last year to this, though that may be that his arm/elbow/wrist is reasonably back to normal.

Beaulieu is the only other guy I'd consider in this conversation and his ass got benched despite better play and he's now a Jet.

Nelson? Can a bit part #7/8 defenseman actually be considered the winner, concept-wise, in this?

So... why are they not getting even incremental improvement from 18 or 19 guys. No one is getting better. McCabe still makes bad puck decisions. Bogosian... Ristolainen... bad decision making. Ullmark and Hutton make the same sort of bad technique decisions Johnson and Lehner made.

For two years, what is the improvement? Where? Who?
 

Chainshot

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I've lost 8 pounds since Thanksgiving / Christmas holidays.

If it weren't for my alcohol consumption which is positively correlate to the Sabres play and Housley's coaching, I think my weight loss would be at least 50% more than that.

Does that count?

I think I may have found them - I've gained 10 of the 34 I lost over the summer back in the last few months. :biglaugh: And yes, I do equate some of it with the coping booze. :D
 
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Dirty Dog

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I don’t think you can argue that the overall game hasnt grown for Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart, Larsson, Bogosian, McCabe since last year.
 
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Aladyyn

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I don’t think you can argue that the overall game hasnt grown for Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart, Larsson, Bogosian, McCabe since last year.
Did you watch Reinhart in the 2nd half of last season? Can't argue that wasn't the best hockey he's played in the NHL. He's also regressed defensively this season, which might have something to do with a certain trade but I wouldn't say it's entirely because of it.
 

Gabrielor

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Man Chain, this is a tough question to answer without just writing a near-full season review player by player.

I think Eichel Reinhart And Dahlin have progressed.

I think every other unfinished product has a net progression of 0 or negative.

I think 95% of the finished products are dead weight, or worse.

(This is off the top of my head. I definitely may have forgotten someone).
 
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Chainshot

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Man Chain, this is a tough question to answer without just writing a near-full season review player by player.

I think Eichel Reinhart And Dahlin have progressed.

I think every other unfinished product has a net progression of 0 or negative.

I think 95% of the finished products are dead weight, or worse.

(This is off the top of my head. I definitely may have forgotten someone).

The coaching question had me thinking about it. Who has gotten better under Phil? McCabe keeps coming up, but we've seen him have a stretch of good play sandwiched around shit sandwiches before. And he's hurt... again. Bogosian "better" or is that a factor of Bogosian being healthy (ish) for the first time in a long, long time? I still see bad passes, unforced giveaways from him time and again. Ristolainen... we hear the GM talk about drawing his minutes down but the coach rolls him out and he's like a punchy boxer who's taken too many blows to the head -- out of position after things start to unravel and then the puck goes in the net.

Reinhart I actually like less this year in his own zone than last year. Jack's doing Jack things, but in year 4, when players usually hit their peak is that a factor of coaching or... what players do? Skinner wasn't here, so I have a hard time judging him in the context. Pro Phil could certainly say it is, but anti-Phil can also hand a hat on Skinner's shooting percentage outlier and contract year stuff.

I don't see anyone learning anything. I don't see new players moving into expanded roles, or even trying new roles for that matter. This is the end of the Disco term all over again and we've now wasted 3 years of Eichel.
 

Montag DP

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Reinhart I actually like less this year in his own zone than last year. Jack's doing Jack things, but in year 4, when players usually hit their peak is that a factor of coaching or... what players do? Skinner wasn't here, so I have a hard time judging him in the context. Pro Phil could certainly say it is, but anti-Phil can also hand a hat on Skinner's shooting percentage outlier and contract year stuff.
I don't think you stated in the original post that it was only supposed to be about improvements attributable to coaching.
 

OkimLom

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Honestly, Bogosian probably. Earlier in the year I probably would've said Hutton but that looked like the result of the energy from being on a new team.

Larsson and Girgs have improved from last year to this year, but compared to the previous regime, they are playing worse. Much like the 1st year and 2nd year difference with Bylsma, these two look like they are comfortable this year than last year under Housley.
 
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Montag DP

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The title does say since last year does it not?
Yes, but it doesn't say due to coaching. Some of us answered that a few players have improved, and you basically responded "but that wasn't due to coaching." My point is that you just asked who improved, not who improved due to coaching.
 
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OkimLom

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Dahlin is so good he makes people think Bogosian isn't terrible.

Nobody said Bogosian isn't terrible. I said he improved. Still bad, but he has been playing better than the previous regimes and previous seasons.
 

Chainshot

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Yes, but it doesn't say due to coaching. Some of us answered that a few players have improved, and you basically responded "but that wasn't due to coaching." My point is that you just asked who improved, not who improved due to coaching.

Valid point! :D I was looking at from regime to regime or year to year and wasn't clear.
 

Aladyyn

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Nobody said Bogosian isn't terrible. I said he improved. Still bad, but he has been playing better than the previous regimes and previous seasons.
He hasn't improved. He's just healthy and he gets to play with the first top defenseman we've had since he came here.
 

Gabrielor

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The coaching question had me thinking about it. Who has gotten better under Phil? McCabe keeps coming up, but we've seen him have a stretch of good play sandwiched around **** sandwiches before. And he's hurt... again. Bogosian "better" or is that a factor of Bogosian being healthy (ish) for the first time in a long, long time? I still see bad passes, unforced giveaways from him time and again. Ristolainen... we hear the GM talk about drawing his minutes down but the coach rolls him out and he's like a punchy boxer who's taken too many blows to the head -- out of position after things start to unravel and then the puck goes in the net.

Reinhart I actually like less this year in his own zone than last year. Jack's doing Jack things, but in year 4, when players usually hit their peak is that a factor of coaching or... what players do? Skinner wasn't here, so I have a hard time judging him in the context. Pro Phil could certainly say it is, but anti-Phil can also hand a hat on Skinner's shooting percentage outlier and contract year stuff.

I don't see anyone learning anything. I don't see new players moving into expanded roles, or even trying new roles for that matter. This is the end of the Disco term all over again and we've now wasted 3 years of Eichel.

I mean, I’d argue that no one has progressed due to Housley, which is why he should be Sabres head coach for exactly 34 more days. Fired Monday, 4/8.
 
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Gabrielor

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Damn you Chain....


Note: subject to change based on final 16 games. Grades can change significantly for significant performances or failures.

Eichel A Still needs work on showing intensity and care more consistently. Still, elite level player, beyond ppg, superstar #1 center. Did progress at ES.

Reinhart A Established line driver, and secondary scoring threat.

Skinner A- True goal scorer. I think the Skinner-Eichel chemistry is overrated, but he's the first player Jack's played with that's in his prime, and an elite sniper.

Rodrigues B- Brought speed and creativity to the middle 6. Would love him on the third/fourth line of a deep team. He's one to keep.

Sheary B- Depth scorer who has okay. Brought speed. Falls a lot.

Mittelstadt C+ Played a role he wasn't ready for. Showed more in the second half. Tools to be a top line scoring threat, but still too young. Needs strength.

Pominville C+ Scored when paired with our best player. His hockey IQ is still top-5 for forwards on this team, his athleticism just can't keep up. I'd take 26 year old pom.

Larsson C Admirable job suppressing shot attempts and pk'ing. Provides little else. Best when he's playing tenacious.

Smith C- Showed scoring touch, but wasn't given much to show his abilities. Lost man on a dead bottom 6.

Okposo D+ Lacks the ability and skill to be a 6 million dollar player. Showed great battle at times, but he just doesn't have it anymore. Trade if possible.

Girgensons D Another good shot suppressor, and brings speed, but nothing else. Can't score, bad iq, waste of a spot.

Wilson D A standard 13th forward, but didn't look good at all this year.

Thompson D- Big failure keeping him in Buffalo. Showed a 10-15 game glimpse of decency, but doesn't engage enough. Too individualistic in play, and makes dumb plays when trying to involve others. Wasn't a fan of him before the trade, tried to buy in, see hope in very small samples, but honestly, I'm trying to trade him this summer. He has a small chance to become a better Alex Tuch, but I don't like the odds at all.

Berglund F Left us. While I'm happy the contract is gone, he was expected to fill part of a giant hole left in that trade, but was the 13th forward almost right away.

Elie F Never did one positive thing for the Sabres in a game, and got too many games to try to.

Sobotka F Total and complete failure of management and coaching. I don't need to go further.

ORegan N/R Sample too small, but liked the speed, attacking with and without the puck, and the decision making. Needed a longer look.

Dahlin A+ A reason for ultimate hope. Everything I thought he would be. The ultimate ice-tilter. Needs to work on strength, shot, and holding the offensive blue line

Montour B+ Small showing, but already the second best decision maker with the puck. Can really skate. Very nice.

Pilut B Great initial showing. Tailed off later, but he still plays a game that translates today. Should make a full-timer next year. Very excited.

Beaulieu B- Very effective in the role he played. Beaulieu-Nelson was probably our best pair-3. Didn't want to see him traded, but knew we had to when Montour came. A solid depth dman, who could be 6-7 on a good team, and maybe better.

Nelson B- In the role of pair 3, right side, he's the best choice the team has. Good season, really like him as the 7th d.

Hunwick C Honestly, I expected worse, but when you watch Hunwick, he plays with an assertiveness that's typically seen from guys who've been with winning organizations. Depth guy at this point, but he showed himself well in a pair-3 role. Just don't expect more.

Bogosian C+ Played well for a while. Carried by Dahlin for a lot of it. All in all, a decent season for Bogo.

McCabe C Another typical McCabe season. 12 games good. 40 games bad. 20 games hurt. Basically what's expected. Trade.

Guhle C- Small showing. His play driving that we saw glimpses of 2 years ago wasn't on display at all. Ultimately traded, and it looks like a good trade.

Ristolainen D Too many minutes. Has improved none of his weaknesses. He can continue the Ivan Drago workout routine, but lifting 1 ton tires won't fix his decision making and awareness.

Scandella D- Far cry from last year, which was servicable, but not world-beating. Terrible year.

Hutton C- Great first 2 months, then collapsed into a black hole. Can't buy a key save right now.

Ullmark C- Great first 2.5 months, then collapsed into a black hole. Can't buy a key save right now. I've always been skeptical of exactly how good of a prospect he's been. @Zip15 was pretty consistent in showing very average AHL numbers on this guy, despite his All-Star appearances.

So, where does that leave us?

Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin are for real.
Skinner, Montour, Pilut are nice complimentary pieces.
Sheary, Rodrigues, Nelson are nice depth pieces.
Mittelstadt is a great prospect.

The rest of the roster ranges from unexciting, but passable (Bogo,McCabe,Larsson), to failure (Risto,Scandella,Girgs,Thompson, goalies), to disaster (Sobotka,Berglund,Elie)

It isn’t nearly enough to be a playoff team, especially in this division, and there’s a lot of work ahead.
 
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CrazyPsycho

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ERod has improved in my eyes, tough to quantify with the amount he has been juggled through the lineup
 

debaser66

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Damn you Chain....


Note: subject to change based on final 16 games. Grades can change significantly for significant performances or failures.

Eichel A Still needs work on showing intensity and care more consistently. Still, elite level player, beyond ppg, superstar #1 center. Did progress at ES.

Reinhart A Established line driver, and secondary scoring threat.

Skinner A- True goal scorer. I think the Skinner-Eichel chemistry is overrated, but he's the first player Jack's played with that's in his prime, and an elite sniper.

Rodrigues B- Brought speed and creativity to the middle 6. Would love him on the third/fourth line of a deep team. He's one to keep.

Sheary B- Depth scorer who has okay. Brought speed. Falls a lot.

Mittelstadt C+ Played a role he wasn't ready for. Showed more in the second half. Tools to be a top line scoring threat, but still too young. Needs strength.

Pominville C+ Scored when paired with our best player. His hockey IQ is still top-5 for forwards on this team, his athleticism just can't keep up. I'd take 26 year old pom.

Larsson C Admirable job suppressing shot attempts and pk'ing. Provides little else. Best when he's playing tenacious.

Smith C- Showed scoring touch, but wasn't given much to show his abilities. Lost man on a dead bottom 6.

Okposo D+ Lacks the ability and skill to be a 6 million dollar player. Showed great battle at times, but he just doesn't have it anymore. Trade if possible.

Girgensons D Another good shot suppressor, and brings speed, but nothing else. Can't score, bad iq, waste of a spot.

Wilson D A standard 13th forward, but didn't look good at all this year.

Thompson D- Big failure keeping him in Buffalo. Showed a 10-15 game glimpse of decency, but doesn't engage enough. Too individualistic in play, and makes dumb plays when trying to involve others. Wasn't a fan of him before the trade, tried to buy in, see hope in very small samples, but honestly, I'm trying to trade him for summer. He has a small chance to become a better Alex Tuch, but I don't like the odds at all.

Berglund F Left us. While I'm happy the contract is gone, he was expected to fill part of a giant hole left in that trade, but was the 13th forward almost right away.

Elie F Never did one positive thing for the Sabres in a game, and got too many games to try to.

Sobotka F Total and complete failure of management and coaching. I don't need to go further.

ORegan N/R Sample too small, but liked the speed, attacking with and without the puck, and the decision making. Needed a longer look.

Dahlin A+ A reason for ultimate hope. Everything I thought he would be. The ultimate ice-tilter. Needs to work on strength, shot, and holding the offensive blue line

Montour B+ Small showing, but already the second best decision maker with the puck. Can very skate. Very nice.

Pilut B Great initial showing. Tailed off later, but he still plays a game that translates today. Should make a full-timer next year. Very excited.

Beaulieu B- Very effective in the role he played. Beaulieu-Nelson was probably our best pair-3. Didn't want to see him traded, but knew we had to when Montour came. A solid depth dman, who could be 6-7 on a good team, and maybe better.

Nelson B- In the role of pair 3, right side, he's the best choice the team has. Good season, really like him as the 7th d.

Hunwick C Honestly, I expected worse, but when you watch Hunwick, he plays with an assertiveness that's typically seen from guys who've been with winning organizations. Depth guy at this point, but he showed himself well in a pair-3 role. Just don't expect more.

McCabe C Another typical McCabe season. 12 games good. 40 games bad. 20 games hurt. Basically what's expected.
Bogosian C+ Played well for a while. Carried by Dahlin for a lot. All in all, a decent season for Bogo

Guhle C- Small showing. His play driving that we saw glimpses of 2 years ago wasn't on display at all. Ultimately traded, and looks like a good trade.

Ristolainen D Too many minutes. Has improved none of his weaknesses. He can continue the Ivan Drago workout routine, but lifting 1 ton tires won't fix his decision making and awareness.

Scandella D- Far cry from last year, which was servicable, but not world-beating. Terrible year.

Hutton C- Great first 2 months, then collapsed into a black hole. Can't buy a key save right now.

Ullmark C- Great first 2.5 months, then collapsed into a black hole. Can't buy a key save right now. I've always been skeptical of exactly how good of a prospect he's been. Zip15 was pretty consistent in showing very average AHL numbers on this guy, despite his All-Star appearances.

So, where does that leave us?

Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin are for real.
Skinner, Montour, Pilut are nice complimentary pieces.
Sheary, Rodrigues, Nelson are nice depth pieces.
Mittelstadt is a great prospect.

The rest of the roster ranges from unexciting, but passable (Bogo,McCabe,Larsson), to failure (Risto,Scandella,Girgs,Thompson, goalies), to disaster (Sobotka,Berglund,Elie)
Good list! Probably I would give Sheary a C he has not done much before his current outburst, too inconsistent to be counted on.
 

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