Who does the most with least?... i.e., what teams draft best without top picks??

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Andy Dufresne

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Jun 17, 2009
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What have those three done in the NHL? :help:

That was my first thought as well. I'll give Tatar brownie points for being good quickly in the AHL, at least that has some use to the franchise. Pulkinnen isn't a steal until he does something in the NHL- even if he breaks every SM-Liiga scoring record and leads Finland to gold in Sochi, that still has no effect on/for the Red Wings. He 'could' be a steal....but isn't yet.

Another criteria people could look at is GM's rather than teams. Burke has managed 3 different teams, with different results, in the last 12 years. He picked 1 NHL'er in 5 years outside the 1'st round when he managed the Canucks.
 

Gobo

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Jun 29, 2010
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Just to represent Edmonton, all of these players were drafted outside the 1st round:

Lander
Petry
Pitlick
Marinicin
Hartikainen
Hamilton
Omark
Dubnyk (IIRC)
Gilbert (IIRC)
Peckham
 
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Future

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Feb 8, 2011
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Just to represent Edmonton, all of these players were drafted outside the 1st round:

Lander
Petry
Pitlick
Marinicin
Hartikainen
Hamilton
Omark
Dubnyk (IIRC)
Gilbert (IIRC)
Peckham

How many of those are good impact players?
 

Future

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Feb 8, 2011
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Nashville:

Martin Erat-7th round, 191
Jordin Tootoo-4th round, 98
Kevin Klein-2nd round, 37
Shea Weber-2nd round, 49
Pekka Rinne- 8th round, 258
Cody Franson- 3rd round, 79
Cal O'Reilly(before December was actually playing great) 5th round, 150
Patric Hornqvist- round 7, 230(last pick of the draft)
Blake Geoffrion- round 2, 56
Jon Blum 1st round- 23
Nick Spaling- 2 round, 58
Anders Lindback- 7th round, 207

All of the above have contributed to the team this season, so it doesn't include prospects. I think in the end 2009 is going to turn out to be a hell of a year in terms of Nashville prospects.

Preds have fantastic scouts.
 

ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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Vancouver
Leafs non-1st round draft picks from the 2001-2007 drafts who are currently NHL regulars (i.e. no prospects, which is why I didn't include the more recent drafts):

Nikolai Kulemin - 2nd round, 44th overall
Matt Stajan - 2nd round, 57th overall
Jay Harrison - 3rd round, 82nd overall
James Reimer - 4th round, 99th overall
Kyle Wellwood - 5th round, 134th overall
Viktor Stalberg - 6th round, 161st overall
Ian White - 6th round, 191st overall
Carl Gunnarsson - 7th round, 194th overall
Anton Stralman - 7th round, 216th overall

Nothing special, but not terrible either. Have some decent prospects from outside the 1st round in recent years too, like Greg McKegg, Brad Ross, Jesse Blacker, Jerry D'Amigo, etc.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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May 28, 2006
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Notable non-1st round NHLers drafted from 2001 to present:

Talbot - 8th round, '02
Christensen - 3rd round, '02
Moulson - 9th round, '03
Carcillo - 3rd round, '03
Kennedy - 4th round, '04
Goligoski - 2nd round, '04
Letang - 3rd round, '05
Jeffrey - 6th round, '07

Not the best, but not bad for a team that was supposedly only a product of lottery picks. ;)
 

Lord Helix

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Nov 12, 2010
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Homer vote, but the Blues haven't done too bad if you don't count Johnson and Petro. A lot of first rounders, but no top 5 guys in this list.

Forwards

Backes
Berglund
Eller
McClement
Oshie
Perron
Schwartz
Tarasenko

Defense

Cole
Nikitin
Polak

Goalies

Allen
Bishop
 
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King RAZZ

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Apr 26, 2007
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No offense, but the 2003 1st round was so good you could basically throw a dart at the top 30 and get some serviceable NHLers (Getzlaf). Ryan was 2nd overall, Fowler was a total layup pick at his spot, and Palmieri is yet to be a productive NHLer.

If you look at their draft list since about 2002 it's pretty uninspiring compared to some other teams.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00004643.html
Too bad the Kings missed the dart board twice after picking Brown...
 

boredmale

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Too bad the Kings missed the dart board twice after picking Brown...

Other then Corry Perry the luck in the first round for top tier players sort of ran out around pick 24, Kings basically picked 26th and 27th. I guess one can make an argument Eriksson(33), Bergeron(45), Carle(47) and Weber(49) were still left in the second round
 

Qvist

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Apr 14, 2009
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I know the obvious answer is Detroit with Zetterberg and Datsyuk seems to be one that jumps out.

However I would love to know who people think are the best drafting teams... not teams that have had consecutive top 5 picks, but have consistently done well with their drafting.

One team I personally think of (other than Detroit) is Nashville.

Always do well with their picks it seems, but never super high picks, just good solid drafting.

What other teams draft well?
What teams don't fair so well at the drafting table?

http://www.canuckscentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9638&hl=qvist&st=30

Post #42.

The Red Wings are obviously great, but I don't think there's any organisation who's done well so consistently as the Colorado Avalanche. The number of NHL players drafted by them with low picks is extremely impressive, and it's been that way for a very long time.
 

Qvist

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Detroit is over-rated unless you want to go back 15 years.

Actually, Detroit's been doing a lot better the past 5-10 years in the late rounds than they did in the late nineties and early 00s. Datsyuk and Zetterberg yes, but that was about it. They did not get players out of late picks with any particularly high regularity. But they have more recently.
 

Qvist

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Apr 14, 2009
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Leafs are near the top

Gunnarsson-4th round
Reimer-4th round 99th overall
Frattin-4th round 99th overall
Kulemin-(30G 30A) 2nd round
Kaberle-7th round

are some big ones.

Haha. No. they aren't.
 

CapeB

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Jun 20, 2006
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Boston non-first Round picks

Boston has been great drafting in the 2nd and 3rd round for some reason. Although some of their 1st round picks (e.g., Hamill, Lashoff) have been largely unsuccessful, they have done well with some of their later picks:

Bergeron (2003, 45th overall)
Lucic (2006, 50th overall)
Krejci (2006, 63rd overall)
Marchand (2004, 71st overall)

They also have some second round pick prospects in the pipeline that may turn out:
Jared Knight (2010, 32nd overall)
Ryan Spooner (2010, 45th overall)
Maxime Sauve (2008, 47th overall)
 

Rickety Cricket

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Mar 8, 2006
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These players outside of the first round for the Sharks have played at least 30 games in the past 10 years:

Christian Ehrhoff-2001 (106)
Thomas Plihal-2001 (140)
Ryane Clowe-2001 (175)

Kris Newbury-2002 (139)
Tim Conboy-2002 (217)

Matt Carle-2003 (47)
Joe Pavelski-2003 (205)

Torrey Mitchell-2004 (126)
(Thomas Greiss has also played 19 games, he was 94th overall)

Marc-Edouard Vlasic -2005 (35)
Derek Joslin-2005 (149)

Jamie McGinn-2006 (36)
John McCarthy-2006 (202)

Nick Bonino-2007 (173)
Frazer McLaren- 2007 (203)
(Justin Braun has played 28 games in his rookie year, he was selected 201)

Jason Demers-2008 (186)
 

Chainshot

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I find it amazing people still try to say Detroit isnt a great late round drafting team. In the 2000s the wings have had Kopecky, Hudler, Fleischman, Filppula, Ericcson (last pick in entire draft), Jim Howard, Quincey, and Franzen who are all impact players in the NHL right now outside of the first round.

When did picking "outside of the first round" become "late"? Fifth round or later... Helm and Ericcson in the last 10 years. Plenty of teams have guys in the early-to-mid-rounds who are NHL regulars in that span as well as Detroit. It doesn't make them particularly great shakes at plucking later-round talent compared to other teams who have upwards of half-a-dozen guys in that same span out of the last four rounds.

Than there are guys like Helm who is looking like a potential top 6 player all of a sudden and Abdelkader who is playing huge defensive minutes for the wings already as a shut down center. They are just breaking into the NHL and have potential ahead of them. Noone knows after this point who will be good for the wings because they haven't gotten a chance yet.

Mursak is a 6th round pick who is as a fast as Helm and will make the NHL next year. The list goes on and on.

That list of players is extrmemely solid and at least as good as any other teams list in the past decade

Solid? Sure. But particularly praise-worthy again? Not really.
 

backdoorpass

Guest
ottawa lately and murrays in general could be right at the top, even erik karlsson at 15 was a pick people were suprised with, zack smith, greening, condra, lehner, weircoich all will play for sure and guys like mark stone in the 6th last year, silfverberg trading for runblad will also play along with a couple players taken recently late that most fans with hockey sense think can at least play, they also had some strong drafts in anahiem when they were there as a group and when our ass gm now tim murray was with the rangers it was said on radio (team 1200) that he got them to move up and take staal, was there for the two years and took sauer anisimov, pyatt are all guys that can play with maybe a couple more to come
 

Hey Dougie

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Aug 2, 2005
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Toronto
Leafs non-1st round draft picks from the 2001-2007 drafts who are currently NHL regulars (i.e. no prospects, which is why I didn't include the more recent drafts):

Nikolai Kulemin - 2nd round, 44th overall
Matt Stajan - 2nd round, 57th overall
Jay Harrison - 3rd round, 82nd overall
James Reimer - 4th round, 99th overall
Kyle Wellwood - 5th round, 134th overall
Viktor Stalberg - 6th round, 161st overall
Ian White - 6th round, 191st overall
Carl Gunnarsson - 7th round, 194th overall
Anton Stralman - 7th round, 216th overall

Nothing special, but not terrible either.

I agree. Nashville and San Jose look like the best at finding mid- and late-rounders, and we're not exactly in their leagues yet, but I'm more than happy with the returns Toronto has had in recent years.

Some reasonable defencemen in that list.
 

flamebird

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Jul 28, 2007
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Smashvilles 2009 draft is looking pretty scary. I know none of these guys have stepped on NHL ice yet, and we can only project what they can do at the next level.

Roussel - Round 2
Budish - Round 2
Beck - Round 3
Latta - Round 3
Ekholm - Round 4
Bourque - Round 5

Rask & Cehlin are personal face of mine, both selected in 2010, so it's way to early to project these guys

At this point I can only see Beck as a top 6 forward, and a healthy 100% Budish (which I highly doubt), Latta can be a quality pest with Superb face-off skills. As for the Dman, Ekholm had a breakout year in sweden and could be a top 4 dman once he crosses the pond.
 

Gwyddbwyll

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Dec 24, 2002
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Very interesting - its great to see someone else taking the time to do a study rather than just listing their own favorite team's prospects.

I considered your approach when I did mine. But trying to evaluate the quality of the players AND factor in where they were picked on top of analysing how many picks from all 30 teams is extremely difficult. I soon changed mine to a simpler, more objective study by numbers simply because I didnt have the in-depth knowledge you would require for every team. Also its really subjective. Ossi Vaananen was a great shut down defenseman in pre-lockout hockey. He struggled in the new NHL. The former is a fantastic draft selection, the latter a dreadful one. Hard to rate every single player without getting influenced by the hype factor around certain teams and players, not to mention personal bias.

For example I can see your ranking of Phoenix has a lot of mistakes (sorry, but it does). Kolanos isnt included. He was a great talent - one of the best 3rd line centres as a rookie and destined for the top line. A Kesler-type player. Letowski played 600+ games and is missing too. Wyatt Smith was a scrub but he was still a 9th round pick who played 200+ games. Not there either. Abid? Lintner? How do you balance a lack of knowledge about one team so that you're treating all 30 teams fairly?

I dont mean to sound overly critical - I know just how much work it takes to put something like that together and it's cool to see what you've come up with. I just think the subjectiveness is really difficult to overcome, you have to have incredible in depth knowledge - not only of every single NHL player but making highly consistent judgement calls on players like Kolanos or players who went back to Europe.
 

Pyrophorus

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Jun 1, 2009
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Eastern GTA
and thanks to Doug Wilson convincing Toronto to give him their first round pick for Vesa Toskala and Mark Bell, they were in position to take Logan Couture in 2007.

Not exactly. You traded for our #13 overall pick (Lars Eller), and traded
up with St. Louis to get #9. The Leafs were never is a position to draft
Couture. Nor were you, until you traded with the Blues.
 

13 others

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Apr 18, 2007
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It never ceases to amaze that the Wings get mentioned for things they did a dozen or more years ago.

I was about to post that. Other than Datsyuk and Zetterberg (Drafted 1998 and 1999) what good player have they found with a late pick? Nothing recent it seems.
 

TheNudge

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Aug 11, 2008
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No offense, but the 2003 1st round was so good you could basically throw a dart at the top 30 and get some serviceable NHLers (Getzlaf). Ryan was 2nd overall, Fowler was a total layup pick at his spot, and Palmieri is yet to be a productive NHLer.

If you look at their draft list since about 2002 it's pretty uninspiring compared to some other teams.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00004643.html

I agree but how did Ranger got nothing during the 2003 draft.
They got the following;



New York Rangers Draft History
2003 Entry
Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM
2003 Entry 12 1 Hugh Jessiman R Dartmouth College [ECAC] 2 0 0 0 5
2003 Entry 50 2 Ivan Baranka D Dubnica Jrs. (Slovakia) 1 0 1 1 0
2003 Entry 75 3 Kenny Roche F St. Sebastian's [Mass. H.S.]
2003 Entry 122 4 Corey Potter D Michigan State University [CCHA] 9 1 1 2 2
2003 Entry 149 5 Nigel Dawes L Kootenay Ice [WHL] 212 39 45 84 43
2003 Entry 176 6 Ivan Dornic C Bratislava Jrs. (Slovakia)
2003 Entry 179 6 Phillip Furrer Bern [Swiss-A]
2003 Entry 180 6 Chris Holt G U.S. Junior National Team [Intl] 2 0 0 0 0
2003 Entry 209 7 Dylan Reese D Pittsburgh Forge [NAHL] 46 2 8 10 29
2003 Entry 243 8 Jan Marek F Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech] 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

wich you can see they got arround 250 gp with all the player combine from the 2003 draftee. in 2004 they had a better draft wich was a weaker draft. I feel that ranger have been good lately since they change there scouts a couple years ago. But during the early 2000 Ranger wasn't good except for the lundqvist in 2000,Ryan Callahan in the 4th round and dubinsky in the 2nd of 2004.


So I guest even in a loaded Draft you could miss wich Ranger did in 2003.
Swing and a miss!!! :D:sarcasm:
 

Gnashville

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Nashville:

Martin Erat-7th round, 191
Jordin Tootoo-4th round, 98
Kevin Klein-2nd round, 37
Shea Weber-2nd round, 49
Pekka Rinne- 8th round, 258
Cody Franson- 3rd round, 79
Cal O'Reilly(before December was actually playing great) 5th round, 150
Patric Hornqvist- round 7, 230(last pick of the draft)
Blake Geoffrion- round 2, 56
Jon Blum 1st round- 23
Nick Spaling- 2 round, 58
Anders Lindback- 7th round, 207

All of the above have contributed to the team this season, so it doesn't include prospects. I think in the end 2009 is going to turn out to be a hell of a year in terms of Nashville prospects.

Players you didn't mention that are no longer with the team
Mike Santorelli 6th round #178
Brandon Segal 4th round #102
Matt Hendricks 5th round #131
Ryan Parent 1st round #18
Alexander Sulzer 3rd round #92
Andrew Hutchinson 2nd round #54
Adam Hall 2nd #52
Rich Peverly Undrafted FA
Vernon Fidler Undrafted FA
 
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