Who do the Detroit Red Wings draft in the first round in 2020

[Killerjas]

When the need is a center, you pretty much draft for a need. Only exception is Lafreniere.

Not when there are better players. BPA > Need

 

[ArmChairGM89]

This is a monumental mistake.

I think it depends where you are drafting. Outside the top 5-10 guys you won’t see them for 2-4 years. And with trades and free agency your need today is your strength tomorrow.

if you know a guy is going to step in right away and you have 2 or more close in ranking I think you pick a need. Otherwise BPA.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

This is a monumental mistake.

You need a lot of context to know if it is a mistake or not. If you need centers, you need to draft them. They don't grow on trees and you aren't going to find really good ones later in the draft. I persoanlly would not do it at the expense of players who obviosuly appear more talented. When your options project similarly, however, you absolutely take the center if you need them.

 

[Frk It]

You need a lot of context to know if it is a mistake or not. If you need centers, you need to draft them. They don't grow on trees and you aren't going to find really good ones later in the draft. I persoanlly would not do it at the expense of players who obviosuly appear more talented. When your options project similarly, however, you absolutely take the center if you need them.

What are your thoughts on Lundell vs the possibly more talented wingers like Perfetti and Raymond?

 

[Hen Kolland]

I think it depends where you are drafting. Outside the top 5-10 guys you won’t see them for 2-4 years. And with trades and free agency your need today is your strength tomorrow.

if you know a guy is going to step in right away and you have 2 or more close in ranking I think you pick a need. Otherwise BPA.

The most recent example I can think of is that 2018 draft with the news that has come out about Montreal's approach at #3 and their selection of Kotkaniemi. They went in knowing they wanted to address center. Had Zadina and Tkachuk kind of out of sight, out of mind. They could have gone after the numerous defensive prospects with Dobson, Bouchard, Hughes, or Boqvist.

I'm sure that hopes are still high for Kotkaniemi, and they should be (never should give up in year 2), but being so one-track minded can lead to some significant oversights.

Especially for a team in Detroit's position, the one thing that we do not have is elite talent anywhere. Not to say we need a superstar to move forward with, but we need some elite abilities in place somewhere. What Henkka is saying is that a need at center trumps more talented players. Say the Wings are picking 4, and (seemingly) everyone's doomsday scenario takes place; Byfield and Stutzle go #2 and #3, are you comfortable ranking and taking Lundell at 4 or Rossi at 4 specifically because they play center? Over players like Raymond or Drysdale. Or Perfetti or Holtz.

There are a lot of players with potentially elite qualities in this draft, and I certainly hope the Wings are targeting those players.

 

[Hen Kolland]

You need a lot of context to know if it is a mistake or not. If you need centers, you need to draft them. They don't grow on trees and you aren't going to find really good ones later in the draft. I persoanlly would not do it at the expense of players who obviosuly appear more talented. When your options project similarly, however, you absolutely take the center if you need them.

What you basically have said is that if we are looking at the same player that line up at different positions, you pick the one at the most valuable position, right? I don't think anyone will disagree with that notion. But there is a balance to everything. When I compare Raymond to Lundell, I see elite, game breaking qualities in Raymond that I don't see in Lundell. That being said, I see a more well-rounded game in Lundell. More diligent, more professional. At this stage, I don't think I can make a compelling argument for Lundell, even with him being a center, because I think the more important thing to come away with is the game breaking ability.

Limiting a pick based on positional needs is something I will never subscribe to. If you want to give "bonus points" in your evaluation, that is fine. The issue I have with the original point is there are undoubtedly scenarios where you can pick a defenseman or winger over a center in this draft outside of the obvious Lafreniere case.

 

[Frk It]

The most recent example I can think of is that 2018 draft with the news that has come out about Montreal's approach at #3 and their selection of Kotkaniemi. They went in knowing they wanted to address center. Had Zadina and Tkachuk kind of out of sight, out of mind. They could have gone after the numerous defensive prospects with Dobson, Bouchard, Hughes, or Boqvist.

I'm sure that hopes are still high for Kotkaniemi, and they should be (never should give up in year 2), but being so one-track minded can lead to some significant oversights.

Especially for a team in Detroit's position, the one thing that we do not have is elite talent anywhere. Not to say we need a superstar to move forward with, but we need some elite abilities in place somewhere. What Henkka is saying is that a need at center trumps more talented players. Say the Wings are picking 4, and (seemingly) everyone's doomsday scenario takes place; Byfield and Stutzle go #2 and #3, are you comfortable ranking and taking Lundell at 4 or Rossi at 4 specifically because they play center? Over players like Raymond or Drysdale. Or Perfetti or Holtz.

There are a lot of players with potentially elite qualities in this draft, and I certainly hope the Wings are targeting those players.

You also have Barrett Hayton taken at 5th in that draft, which was met with a lot of LOL's, and I think that kid is going to prove he deserved to be taken where he was.

 

[MBH]

This is a monumental mistake.

why?

 

[Frk It]

When I compare Raymond to Lundell, I see elite, game breaking qualities in Raymond that I don't see in Lundell. That being said, I see a more well-rounded game in Lundell. More diligent, more professional. At this stage, I don't think I can make a compelling argument for Lundell, even with him being a center, because I think the more important thing to come away with is the game breaking ability.

I'm probably one of the bigger Lucas Raymond fans on here, so I get where you are coming from. But I feel like there is this narrative being pushed that Lundell is a lesser prospect (within guys ranked top 10), and I am trying to figure out if that is deserved or not. Kid has been awfully productive and a key player for his country every step of the way so far. If he was not injured I think he would have had a really big role for Finland at the WJC and generated some buzz for himself.

 

[Hen Kolland]

You also have Barrett Hayton taking at 5th in that draft, which was met with a lot of LOL's, and I think that kid is going to prove he deserved to be taken where he was.

Perhaps. The Athletic did a good job breaking everything down the events leading up to and during those first 7 picks in 2018. I wasn't in love with his style of play at the WJC this year, but he does have plenty of skill. I'll be interested to see how his game translates.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I'm probably one of the bigger Lucas Raymond fans on here, so I get where you are coming from. But I feel like there is this narrative being pushed that Lundell is a lesser prospect (within guys ranked top 10), and I am trying to figure out if that is deserved or not. Kid has been awfully productive and a key player for his country every step of the way so far. If he was not injured I think he would have had a really big role for Finland at the WJC and generated some buzz for himself.

I still think he is probably the second best center prospect in the draft (not ready to consider Stutzle a guarantee at center), but I just have never seen Lundell really blow me away with his game. He's very steady, positionally sound, does a little bit of everything at a good level, but I find myself questioning exactly how special any of his game is. I can't help but find myself hoping for a little bit more than kind of a jack of all trades second line center with a top 4 pick.

 

[Frk It]

I still think he is probably the second best center prospect in the draft (not ready to consider Stutzle a guarantee at center), but I just have never seen Lundell really blow me away with his game. He's very steady, positionally sound, does a little bit of everything at a good level, but I find myself questioning exactly how special any of his game is. I can't help but find myself hoping for a little bit more than kind of a jack of all trades second line center with a top 4 pick.

Guess it would depend on how high you are on Mantha and Zadina. If the Wings are super high on them, then I could see the appeal of running Larkin/Lundell down the middle to do a lot of the heavy lifting and let those guys create offense. Some of this definitely comes down to fit. If you draft a winger then we need a 2nd line center next year (not sure Rasmussen or Veleno are ready for that role next year). If you draft a center, then you are hoping the wingers we have continue to get better. Every choice has an opportunity cost. That's the hardest thing about drafting IMO is getting the best player while also looking at the big picture.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

What are your thoughts on Lundell vs the possibly more talented wingers like Perfetti and Raymond?

I don't consider Lundell to be on the same tier as Perfetti and Raymond. He isn't far off, but I do think that there is a gap in my mind. If Lundell was an elite skater, I would probably feel differently knowing that I am getting two elite/very high-end attributes out of him. I think Perfetti and Raymond both have two elite/high-end attribtues (and the same attributes at that in hockey IQ and puck skills). I would probably include Perfetti on the same tier as Raymond and Stutzle, but I would take the later two before Perfetti based on skating. I would also take Perfetti after Drysdale for the record.

That being said I do think Lundell is a super smart player (and not just with the puck on his stick) and I do think he checks the box of being a bona-fide center which will help his draft stock. Hockey IQ goes a long, long way so I would not be suprised if he out performs his draft slot.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

The most recent example I can think of is that 2018 draft with the news that has come out about Montreal's approach at #3 and their selection of Kotkaniemi. They went in knowing they wanted to address center. Had Zadina and Tkachuk kind of out of sight, out of mind. They could have gone after the numerous defensive prospects with Dobson, Bouchard, Hughes, or Boqvist.

I'm sure that hopes are still high for Kotkaniemi, and they should be (never should give up in year 2), but being so one-track minded can lead to some significant oversights.

Especially for a team in Detroit's position, the one thing that we do not have is elite talent anywhere. Not to say we need a superstar to move forward with, but we need some elite abilities in place somewhere. What Henkka is saying is that a need at center trumps more talented players. Say the Wings are picking 4, and (seemingly) everyone's doomsday scenario takes place; Byfield and Stutzle go #2 and #3, are you comfortable ranking and taking Lundell at 4 or Rossi at 4 specifically because they play center? Over players like Raymond or Drysdale. Or Perfetti or Holtz.

There are a lot of players with potentially elite qualities in this draft, and I certainly hope the Wings are targeting those players.

obviously I’m not in the brain trust of Montreal’s scouting department, but maybe they thought after svech there was a group that included zadina, tkachuk, kotkeniemi, and whoever else, and they took the position of need. That’s what I agree with.

If I Ranked players by grades out of 100 (this is just an example, not actually my opinion)

laffy taffy - 95
Stutzle - 85
Byfield - 84
Raymond -82
Drysdale - 80
Holtz - 80
Perfetti- 79

If I’m picking 5th and the players went in order. If I need a center I’m taking Perfetti. He will be in the league in 2 years max and he’s essentially equal or close to the other guys.

now if I project the player to not make the nhl for 3-4 years I don’t bother at all with need because in 4 years my needs will almost certainly be different than they are today.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

If I’m picking 5th and the players went in order. If I need a center I’m taking Perfetti. He will be in the league in 2 years max and he’s essentially equal or close to the other guys.

now if I project the player to not make the nhl for 3-4 years I don’t bother at all with need because in 4 years my needs will almost certainly be different than they are today.

That is very ambitious for a player with his feet. He has a lot of work to put into his skating in terms of both strength and technique.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

That is very ambitious for a player with his feet. He has a lot of work to put into his skating in terms of both strength and technique.

It was a hypothetical. Disregard the real life names lol

 

[newfy]

The most recent example I can think of is that 2018 draft with the news that has come out about Montreal's approach at #3 and their selection of Kotkaniemi. They went in knowing they wanted to address center. Had Zadina and Tkachuk kind of out of sight, out of mind. They could have gone after the numerous defensive prospects with Dobson, Bouchard, Hughes, or Boqvist.

I'm sure that hopes are still high for Kotkaniemi, and they should be (never should give up in year 2), but being so one-track minded can lead to some significant oversights.

Especially for a team in Detroit's position, the one thing that we do not have is elite talent anywhere. Not to say we need a superstar to move forward with, but we need some elite abilities in place somewhere. What Henkka is saying is that a need at center trumps more talented players. Say the Wings are picking 4, and (seemingly) everyone's doomsday scenario takes place; Byfield and Stutzle go #2 and #3, are you comfortable ranking and taking Lundell at 4 or Rossi at 4 specifically because they play center? Over players like Raymond or Drysdale. Or Perfetti or Holtz.

There are a lot of players with potentially elite qualities in this draft, and I certainly hope the Wings are targeting those players.

I think Detroit is bad enough that they just need to take the best talents available. If they end up too good at one position they can trade to address other deficiencies. Theyre not at the point where teams like Edmonton had drafted 4 forwards first overall and completely ignored the defense. Detroit kinda has talent spread out at every position and need to start adding some real elite pieces at any of them to take the next step.

Getting too concerned about drafting a center for an elite winger could have you end up picking someone and looking stupid. Are the wings a better team right now adding Dylan Strome or Mitch Marner? Turris at center was actually ranked ahead of Kane at draft time but Kane makes the wings a way better player than Turris. Larkin is a good enough first line center if the wings are absolutely stacked at wing. I dont think that the wings are good enough at wing right now to make up for only getting a 50 or 60 point center in this years draft.

I guess this is a long post just saying I agree with you.

 

[theYman]

Lotttery was put in cause teams intentionally tanking. Was supposed to be a deterant, which it isn't just makes it less profitable. Please refer to Buffalo's anger with getting Eichel.

And Detroit is intentionally tanking.

Which is why Tank Commander Blashill is still coach.

Dude Scotty Bowman couldn't coach this team out of the basement at this moment bro! Lol intentionally tanking based on not changing a coach. Stop the mental gymnastics already.

 

[Mlotek]

Dude Scotty Bowman couldn't coach this team out of the basement at this moment bro! Lol intentionally tanking based on not changing a coach. Stop the mental gymnastics already.

A lot of the issue is the systems Blashill implements.


His goal is to make the most boring hockey possible to prevent chances against, and it does not work.

Dump and chase hasn't worked in this league for a while.

Blash implements dump and no chase to minimize chances against and attempt to kill him.

Its funny that Detroit gets a lot more offensive chances skating the puck in than dumping it straight into opposition possesion.

Sure the roster isn't good, but they are a lot better than they are perfoming. That is on the coach.

For years he's had trouble getting the players motivated. That is on the coach. Especially when its a persistent issue for years.


Do you know what made Scotty one of the best coaches ever? The ability to adapt to the opposition.

Blashill has been using the same cookie cutter system which has not worked for years. For every opponent.

The moment the team gets a lead the brings in the turtle mode of dump and no chase.



Seriously, every other team would have fired him by now.


Or you can use the excuse I hear often, Blash never had a good team.

Remember, this is a coach who had a team of NHL players, who couldn't beat a team with 0 NHL players (granted 2 guys ended up playing the next year). In fact, I think they were shutout that elimination game.