Speculation: Who Cracks the Roster Out of Training Camp?

[L'Aveuglette]

Our attempt at an opening night lineup for the Senators

Predicting 2018-2019 Ottawa Senators Lineup On Opening Night

This is pretty much how I see things exactly, from the potential lineup to the overall assessment of the team.

 

[Nordiques1979]

Looking for Chabot to have a breakout season, not sure to take the #1 dman job if Karlsson is traded, but I hope a big improvement this year.

Nothing to be really excited about in this lineup, but if Vegas shown us something is that mental is everything. Looking for the Sens to be a pain in the arses to play against.

 

[Sensung]

The HF consensus for 2nd best record last summer. The Oilers.

The bottom 5
27 New Jersey
28 Vancity
29 Colorado
30 Detroit
31 Las Vegas

The overwhelming choice for #1 two years ago?
Tampa, who finished out of the playoffs.

Fans make elaborate theories based on the assumptions that have no basis in reality.

The Sens seem to always perform well above expectations when they have a poor season in the previous campaign and underperform when expectations are raised following success. I'm hopeful this pattern continues.

 

[josiesque]

Not sure if this belongs here, but i've seen a few guys talking about Pius Suter in here. I'm a huge zurich fan and just got the news, that Ottawa invited him to this year's camp again.
Hopefully for my team, he's not cracking your lineup.

 

[Hinterland]

Its absolutely where they should go, in my opinion none of Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Chlapik and Brown should play this year unless its just for a cup of coffee and a call up here or there. All of these players need time to develop, whether its physically, skill, or just getting lots of reps I want them to be impact players and be 'the man' on their respective teams. Rushing them is not the way to go in the long run. This team has a good group of forward prospects but they need to learn to play the pro game or in Tkachuk and Formentons case dominate and score ALOT in jr. Hoffman, Dzingel, Pageau, Stone, Smith etc all played alot of games in the AHL before coming up I dont see why it would be any difference with this new group of prospects.

I am with most posters here and think that we will see White make the team along with Mccormick and Paul. I know I sound like a broken record but im still really hoping they atleast invite Pius Suter to camp, I was hoping for a one year deal but at the very least id like to see him try and win a spot. They brought him in last year and he had a terrific year in the swiss league would be a shame not to explore him as an option.

What I am hoping for

Boedker Duchene Ryan
Dzingel Pageau Stone
Smith Suter White
Paarjarvi Paul Pyatt
McCormick

Chabot Karlsson
Wolanin Ceci
Boro Wideman
Englund/Harpur/Jaros

I think with a mobile D core like that this team could have some success if they are willing to push the pace and retain the puck.

Very good post and you also got your wish...Suter back in Ottawa for preseason...
I like the player. Not too big or flashy but very smart, versatile and dependable also one of the few Swiss born player with enough drive to carve out an NHL-career. Can't wait to see how he does...

 

[JD1]

Its absolutely where they should go, in my opinion none of Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Chlapik and Brown should play this year unless its just for a cup of coffee and a call up here or there. All of these players need time to develop, whether its physically, skill, or just getting lots of reps I want them to be impact players and be 'the man' on their respective teams. Rushing them is not the way to go in the long run. This team has a good group of forward prospects but they need to learn to play the pro game or in Tkachuk and Formentons case dominate and score ALOT in jr. Hoffman, Dzingel, Pageau, Stone, Smith etc all played alot of games in the AHL before coming up I dont see why it would be any difference with this new group of prospects.

I am with most posters here and think that we will see White make the team along with Mccormick and Paul. I know I sound like a broken record but im still really hoping they atleast invite Pius Suter to camp, I was hoping for a one year deal but at the very least id like to see him try and win a spot. They brought him in last year and he had a terrific year in the swiss league would be a shame not to explore him as an option.

What I am hoping for

Boedker Duchene Ryan
Dzingel Pageau Stone
Smith Suter White
Paarjarvi Paul Pyatt
McCormick

Chabot Karlsson
Wolanin Ceci
Boro Wideman
Englund/Harpur/Jaros

I think with a mobile D core like that this team could have some success if they are willing to push the pace and retain the puck.

there is an important distinction in the two groups of players.

the current crop of prospects that you mentioned are all first or second rounders and it's quite common for those types to play minimally at the AHL level.

The other group of current roster players you mentioned that all played significant AHL time were all mid to later round picks. They are the success stories from those later rounds.

There's a difference. Take a guy like Brown. If he plays the entire year in the AHL, based on his draft slot talk will build to a frenzy that he's a bust because he isn't in the NHL by draft +3

anyway we'll see how it plays out

 

[bert]

there is an important distinction in the two groups of players.

the current crop of prospects that you mentioned are all first or second rounders and it's quite common for those types to play minimally at the AHL level.

The other group of current roster players you mentioned that all played significant AHL time were all mid to later round picks. They are the success stories from those later rounds.

There's a difference. Take a guy like Brown. If he plays the entire year in the AHL, based on his draft slot talk will build to a frenzy that he's a bust because he isn't in the NHL by draft +3

anyway we'll see how it plays out

Draft position should have absolutely nothing to do with how the player is developed. Nothing. It should be the right pace and course for that players specific development. At 19 Mark Stone was a better player than all those prospects even got a nhl playoff game in then spent significant time in the AHL and is now one of the best players in the NHL. This org has rushed first round picks and none outside of Karlsson has reached their maximum potential and he is a generational talent. I think that if anyone has any common sense players like Brown wont be rushed. Brown more than anyone needs AHL time, he needs to toughen up physically and mentally. If you watched him this past season you would agree.

 

[bert]

You love the ol assumption train eh? Suter will not be coming back over to NA this year for sure and I highly doubt he'd want to come to this dumpster fire when Zurich had a decent season in the NL last year.

You a glass half empty kind of guy ?

@scallionjj11 what was that about him not coming over?...

 

[bert]

Very good post and you also got your wish...Suter back in Ottawa for preseason...
I like the player. Not too big or flashy but very smart, versatile and dependable also one of the few Swiss born player with enough drive to carve out an NHL-career. Can't wait to see how he does...

I am very excited to see how he does, i think he can win a spot out of training camp. This team has very little pro depth down the middle.

 

[JD1]

Draft position should have absolutely nothing to do with how the player is developed. Nothing. It should be the right pace and course for that players specific development. At 19 Mark Stone was a better player than all those prospects even got a nhl playoff game in then spent significant time in the AHL and is now one of the best players in the NHL. This org has rushed first round picks and none outside of Karlsson has reached their maximum potential and he is a generational talent. I think that if anyone has any common sense players like Brown wont be rushed. Brown more than anyone needs AHL time, he needs to toughen up physically and mentally. If you watched him this past season you would agree.

I agree draft position shouldn't impact dev time. I've no issue with that.

but you mentioned by name a group of mid to late round guys that almost universally spend a couple of seasons maturing and you compared them to a group of guys that were drafted under different circumstances. I'm pointing out your comparison is not quite the same.

if you want to compare the mid to late round current roster players to the mid to late round prospects from the past two drafts and project we might see some of them in 2021 ..... well you'd then be making a valid comparison.

what you've done is compared your apples and oranges IMO.

I'll say again if a guy like Brown based on where he was drafted spends the year in the AHL the talk will be that he is a bust in the making. And who knows maybe he is.

 

[bert]

I agree draft position shouldn't impact dev time. I've no issue with that.

but you mentioned by name a group of mid to late round guys that almost universally spend a couple of seasons maturing and you compared them to a group of guys that were drafted under different circumstances. I'm pointing out your comparison is not quite the same.

if you want to compare the mid to late round current roster players to the mid to late round prospects from the past two drafts and project we might see some of them in 2021 ..... well you'd then be making a valid comparison.

what you've done is compared your apples and oranges IMO.

I'll say again if a guy like Brown based on where he was drafted spends the year in the AHL the talk will be that he is a bust in the making. And who knows maybe he is.

Its a prime example of how to develop players properly nothing more nothing less. To further prove my point they have rushed multiple first rounders and none have reached their maximum potential. So maybe you are correct, ottawas management does feel a need to move high picks along early and treat them differently and its not working.

I'll repeat myself and say the same thing draft position should mean nothing to anyone but fans, management if competent isnt going to screw up a player beacuse the 'expert' concensus is they 'should' be in the NHL. Also there is no impact on the player if fans are unhappy if they arent in the NHL by then d+3 season. Browns body type is naturally going to take longer to develop. Playing a year in the AHL at 20 years old does not mean a player is a bust thats ridiculous it literally happens all the time. Youre in your own head.

 

[BonkTastic]

...Suter back in Ottawa for preseason...

Pius Suter will be attending the Islanders training camp, not ours.

 

[JD1]

Its a prime example of how to develop players properly nothing more nothing less. To further prove my point they have rushed multiple first rounders and none have reached their maximum potential. So maybe you are correct, ottawas management does feel a need to move high picks along early and treat them differently and its not working.

I'll repeat myself and say the same thing draft position should mean nothing to anyone but fans, management if competent isnt going to screw up a player beacuse the 'expert' concensus is they 'should' be in the NHL. Also there is no impact on the player if fans are unhappy if they arent in the NHL by then d+3 season. Browns body type is naturally going to take longer to develop. Playing a year in the AHL at 20 years old does not mean a player is a bust thats ridiculous it literally happens all the time. Youre in your own head.

go look at the 2015 first round. those that are not full time NHL players at this point are talked about in the bust category.

those mid to late rounders require more development which is why they are mid to late picks

idk maybe brown is an exception but it is certainly more common for a player in his situation to be in the nhl in draft +3 than not

 

[Hinterland]

Pius Suter will be attending the Islanders training camp, not ours.

My bad. I probably misread or I just assumed he'd go back to Ottawa when I read about him attending an NHL-camp....you're right of course. A shame. But he can still sign with the Senators of course...

 

[BonkTastic]

My bad. I probably misread or I just assumed he'd go back to Ottawa when I read about him attending an NHL-camp....you're right of course. A shame. But he can still sign with the Senators of course...

No worries, you were correct that initial reports had him at our camp. It wasn't until this morning that the confusion was cleared up and it was revealed he's be going to the Isles camp instead.

He can't sign with anyone at the moment, however. Apparently, his current contract (which expires at the end of this upcoming 2018-19 NLA season) has a clause that allows him to attend NHL camps, but does not have an "out" clause should he want to bail on the last year of his deal with Zurich. I suppose an NHL team could come to an "agreement" (ie: buy out Suter's last year), but I don't know why Zurich would do that when they don't need the money and are trying to win a league title this year.

 

[scallionjj11]

@scallionjj11 what was that about him not coming over?...

Did i miss something bert?

 

[swiftwin]

Our attempt at an opening night lineup for the Senators

Predicting 2018-2019 Ottawa Senators Lineup On Opening Night

Pretty good, but I would swap Bodker and Smith. Smith-Pageau-Stone was our best line in 2015-16. Smith was our 2nd top goal scorer with 25 goals, ahead of guys like Stone, Ryan, Zibanejad, etc. Boucher keeps touting him as a "top 6 forward".

 

[aragorn]

While I think Tkachuk gets a few games in the NHL to start the yr, I'm not sure he sticks for the entire season although it wouldn't surprise me to take advantage of his marketability. IMO White has a spot on the team to lose, hopefully he can stay healthy for a while this yr. I also think Paul gets a final look to see if he can stick too given his age & time in the org since the trade that brought him here. He has to play much better & consistently better to stick with this org otherwise I could see him moved in some kind of package deal. Wolanin IMO has a shot at making the team out of camp, the left side is a little weak & he seems to have great wheels.

McCormick will likely be a 12th & 13th forward all yr due to his one way contract & Chlapik could end up being the guy that goes back & forth most of the yr. It will also be difficult for management to keep Brown out of Ottawa for too long given his size & skill package & the obvious need for better players on this roster. I think Batherson starts the yr in Belleville & it should be interesting how he performs down there in his first yr. Formenton I expect could be sent back to junior. IMO this is a transition yr whereby they try & move out the old & bring in the new.

 

[bert]

Did i miss something bert?

Yes did you read the thread... Suter is coming to North America. Ofcourse management missed this one, im sure its a plan to rush one of the prospects instead but he still did come over.

My bad. I probably misread or I just assumed he'd go back to Ottawa when I read about him attending an NHL-camp....you're right of course. A shame. But he can still sign with the Senators of course...

Got my hopes up, however not surprising why get a player for free, this organization hates assets anyways.

 

[bert]

go look at the 2015 first round. those that are not full time NHL players at this point are talked about in the bust category.

those mid to late rounders require more development which is why they are mid to late picks

idk maybe brown is an exception but it is certainly more common for a player in his situation to be in the nhl in draft +3 than not

So no one goes to the AHL now if they are a first rounder?

 

[scallionjj11]

Yes did you read the thread... Suter is coming to North America. Ofcourse management missed this one, im sure its a plan to rush one of the prospects instead but he still did come over.



Got my hopes up, however not surprising why get a player for free, this organization hates assets anyways.

Where's he heading again?

 

[bert]

Where's he heading again?

NYI I cant help that management here is inept.

You love the ol assumption train eh? Suter will not be coming back over to NA this year for sure and I highly doubt he'd want to come to this dumpster fire when Zurich had a decent season in the NL last year.

You a glass half empty kind of guy ?

Bolded. Review.

 

[scallionjj11]

NYI I cant help that management here is inept.



Bolded. Review.

So you want me to admit my opinion was wrong?

 

[JD1]

So no one goes to the AHL now if they are a first rounder?

why do you need to deal in absolutes Bert? I said it was uncommon

 

[bert]

So you want me to admit my opinion was wrong?

Don't need you to admit it. The thread proved it.