Who belongs in HHOF but isn't there?

[billybudd]

What are the thoughts on John LeClair?

He was a favorite of mine as a kid and I would love to see him go in, but I don't know that he has the career to make it, unless a lot of others in waiting are taken care of and there's a weak year. He has six straight years of really good goal scoring but that's about it.

Had 5 or 6 really good seasons, but thinking back, I'm not sure anybody would have said he was the best player at his position at any point in his career. Not in any season Kariya played an appreciable number of games at least.

And even in those Kariya didn't, Keith Tkachuk was putting up similar numbers (while playing with more jam edit: and holy Hell, he had 41 even strength goals in "the year of the goalie") without the benefit of playing next to Eric Lindros on every shift 88 stepped over the boards for. To my mind, those two would need to be in the Hall before Leclair could even be considered (and Tkachuk probably doesn't have a prayer).

Come to think of it, why doesn't Kariya get more consideration? For 3 or 4 years there he was in the conversation for best player in the sport, even if he wasn't the conventional correct answer. It's almost like he's being punished for getting fouled in the teeth so many times.

 

[Big Phil]

Krutov. It's the Hockey Hall of Fame, not the North American Hall of Fame.

No. Not that he didn't have an extraordinary peak because he did. Heck we Canadians know how dominant Krutov could be in a short tournament. But there are two problems, for starters with the Russians who couldn't play in the NHL we are only allowed to use projections on how they would do rather than actual evidence. We can't say for sure how he would fare in an 80 game schedule year in and year out. Seconldy, he played one year in the NHL and was out of shape after a year in Canada. Drank like a fish, ate like a pig. The rest of the "Russian 5" lasted in the NHL. Makarov did pretty good and combined with what we saw in the 1980s with him he should get in. Larionov and Fetisov won Cups with Detroit. And Kasatonov wasn't a star, but he did last a few years with the best players.

But there is just a poor lasting image with Krutov.

Had 5 or 6 really good seasons, but thinking back, I'm not sure anybody would have said he was the best player at his position at any point in his career. Not in any season Kariya played an appreciable number of games at least.

And even in those Kariya didn't, Keith Tkachuk was putting up similar numbers (while playing with more jam edit: and holy Hell, he had 41 even strength goals in "the year of the goalie") without the benefit of playing next to Eric Lindros on every shift 88 stepped over the boards for. To my mind, those two would need to be in the Hall before Leclair could even be considered (and Tkachuk probably doesn't have a prayer).

Come to think of it, why doesn't Kariya get more consideration? For 3 or 4 years there he was in the conversation for best player in the sport, even if he wasn't the conventional correct answer. It's almost like he's being punished for getting fouled in the teeth so many times.

Kariya is punished for being a soft player and having pretty much the worst playoff resume a player of his status could ever have. The question is only whether or not his peak play can make up for it.

I forgot to mention this in my list of contingencies for LeClair sneaking in, but his status as a US player with a good peak would have to play in.



I kind of answered my own question by outlining how much of a long shot it would be.

I don't know if the American thing works anymore. 15 years ago it did with Mullen (although he had a case regardless). It wasn't a novelty for an American to score goals in the 1990s. Lots of them did. In fact, there were far more star Americans in the 1990s than we see today.

Leclair had three straight 50 goal seasons in a low scoring era. That's a nice little peak there but overall it was just too short. His career is not a lot different than Rick Martin's to be honest.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

What are the thoughts on John LeClair?

He was a favorite of mine as a kid and I would love to see him go in, but I don't know that he has the career to make it, unless a lot of others in waiting are taken care of and there's a weak year. He has six straight years of really good goal scoring but that's about it.

Here's an update of a post I made last year in a thread about Paul Kariya for the HHOF:

If Kariya and LeClair were not inducted into the HHOF, they'd likely be the only two players with five or more Postseason All Star Teams not to be inducted. In fact, it's extremely rare for a player with 4 All Star Teams to be left out.

Non HHOFers with more than 5 All Star Teams
Nicklas Lidstrom (12)*
Jaromir Jagr (8)*
Martin Brodeur (7)*
Alexander Ovechkin (7)*
Dominik Hasek (6)*
Zdeno Chara (6)*

The only reason any of these players are outside the HHOF is because none are elligible yet. I think we'll all in agreement that Lidstrom, Jagr, Brodeur, and Hasek are first ballot locks. Most of us assume Chara and Ovechkin get in easily too.

Non-HHOFers with five All Star Teams
John LeClair
Paul Kariya
Martin St. Louis*

Non-HHOFers with four All Star Teams
Carl Brewer
Rick Martin
Teemu Selanne*
Chris Pronger*
Rob Blake
Jarome Iginla*

Non-HHOFers with three All Star Teams
Cecil Dillon
Sid Smith
Pat Stapleton
Bill White
Tom Barrasso
Doug Wilson
Kevin Stevens
Peter Forsberg*
Markus Naslund
Joe Thornton*
Evgeni Malkin*
Sidney Crosby*

Non-HHOFers with 2 All Star Teams
Wilf Cude
Paul Thompson
Dave Kerr
Lorne Carr
Bill Hollett
Jack Crawford
Glen Harmon
Gaye Stewart
Jimmy Thomson
Leo Reise
Ken Mosdell
Moose Vasko
Kenny Wharram
Charlie Hodge
J.C. Tremblay
Mickey Redmond
Rogie Vachon
Glenn Resch
Don Edwards
Charlie Simmer
Mike Liut
John Tonelli
John Vanbiesbrouck
Alexander Mogilny
Keith Tkachuk
Eric Lindros
Eric Desjardins
Sergei Gonchar*
Roberto Luongo*
Ilya Kovalchuk*
Dany Heatley*
Dan Boyle*
Mike Green*
Henrik Sedin*
Tim Thomas*
Daniel Sedin*
Shea Weber*
Steven Stamkos*
Henrik Lundqvist*

*Not yet elligible

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Here's an update of a post I made last year in a thread about Paul Kariya for the HHOF:

Non-HHOFers with three All Star Teams
Cecil Dillon
Sid Smith
Pat Stapleton
Bill White
Tom Barrasso
Doug Wilson
Kevin Stevens
Brendan Shanahan
Peter Forsberg*
Markus Naslund
Joe Thornton*
Evgeni Malkin*
Sidney Crosby*

*Not yet elligible

You probably should remove Shanahan from your list.

 

[Sanf]

whenever this thread comes someone who doesn't know much about the early days asks about lorne chabot. i guess i'll be that guy today.

Chabot had many holdouts during his career. When he was traded to Chicago to replace Gardiner he went to a holdout (salary issues) and even NHL president Calder had to interfere in that case. He might have had battles with wrong people during his career.

He was a big goalie (6' 1" and 185 pounds) in a era which seemed to idolize and give advantage to smaller goalie. He was actually last big goalie in league after Benedict retired.
(Lessons in hockey. Size and the goalie.)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TyRkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WHsNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1484%2C2317117

Also he was flopper. "More often on his knees than praying mantis". I have seen Vern DeGeers (One of the all star voters in 30s) column from 50´s where he writes that Chabot was so poor skater that he had to sometimes grab to post to steady himself. He was far from typical goalie from that era. It has made me wonder was he really treated fairly by the observers of that time.

Overall I don´t know how would I rank him. He had rollercoaster career. Did prove often that he could be a difference maker, but there are some low points too. (example. Almost got waived during the 31-32 season because of poor results. Got second chance and went in to a hot streak which eventually led to a Stanley Cup)

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

You probably should remove Shanahan from your list.

Thanks. I caught Chelios and Niedermayer in the update, but missed this one.

 

[rocketxav9]

kariya will get in... best player in the game from 96 to 98 imo (at least top 3)

2 olympics medal

989 pts in 989 games

5 all star teams

and this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7f7cpoJz_s
(and someone wrote that he is a soft player lol...)

honestly how can he not be in ??

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Steve Larmer and possibly Doug Wilson.