Who are the worst people in Hockey history?
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Kyle McMahon
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Comparing the Milbury incident to some of those that you listed is absurd. If Mad Mike, a 20-something professional athlete had wanted to, I'm sure he could have put that fan into a coma. Instead, he rather comically slapped him around with his own loafer. Bertuzzi, by comparison, sucker-punched a guy from behind, ending his career and possibly endangering his life. To lump Milbury into the same category is
MXD
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Comparing the Milbury incident to some of those that you listed is absurd. If Mad Mike, a 20-something professional athlete had wanted to, I'm sure he could have put that fan into a coma. Instead, he rather comically slapped him around with his own loafer. Bertuzzi, by comparison, sucker-punched a guy from behind, ending his career and possibly endangering his life. To lump Milbury into the same category is
... Coitus Interruptus.
Any player running into the stands and starts doing whatever to a fan shouldn't play the game according to me. Plain N Simple.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
OK, I can accept that.
As for Ballard, if anyone wants to know more about this guy, look for the book "Pal Hal" - I forget who it's by, but I am sure you can get it on ebay for less than $5 including shipping. I did. It's an awesome read. It goes over, in chronological order, everything you knew and a lot more that you don't.
And how about that maniac Jeff Kugel? Or is that minor because it was one 3-minute long incident?
Kyle McMahon
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That's an argument a lot of people will use, and I think it's crap. I don't think idiot fans should have complete imunity from the players when they instigate something physically. Verbal abuse, fine, the players just need to ignore it. But when fans start instigating physical incidents, they're fair game (within reason) IMO.
From what I know of the Milbury incident a fan was stealing sticks or something from the Bruin bench, and the B's decided to go get them back. Does that give liscense to pound on somebody? No, but Milbury didn't do that, he smacked him with a shoe, possibly knowing that he'd be in a whole lot more trouble if he used his fists and actually injured the guy. That's the big difference between him and Ron Artest. Artest whaled on some guy, and apparently it wasn't even the guy who threw the beer on him.
So to say what Milbury did is on par with some of the ugliest on ice incidents ever, is way out of line to me. Most of us look back on it and laugh about it. Nobody will ever look back at Simon, Bertuzzi, etc. and laugh about it.
There's also a societal code that says a man should never hit a woman. But is smacking a woman as bad or worse than pulling out a gun and shooting a man?
On the topic of player/fan interaction, there was an incident at Chicago Stadium, in the late 50's I believe. Referee Red Storey made a bad call that went against the Blackhawks and the fans rushed onto the ice at the end of the game. One was headed for Storey when Habs d-man Doug Harvey intercepted him by spearing him in the gut. Needless to say, that guy went down. I don't think Harvey received any discipline from the league, nor do I think he should have, although this was a case of fans entering the playing surface, not the opposite.
MXD
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1 - Both acts are condemnable.
2 - This was completely different. There was something in Quebec City, with a player attempting to hurt... I think it was Rob Ray. Not very bright to begin with... But that's another story. The guy was brought down to the ice quite fast, and I think it was the right thing to do. The players on the ice (or field -- Gamboa/Ligue thing in baseball was awful), the fans in the stand, and everything is all right. But players should be responsible enough to remain on the ice - they have a game to win, right? And those kind of acts are stains that take long to leave. It wasn't as bad as Artest, though.
Kyle McMahon
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Yes, but isn't one of them (shooting) much more so than the other (hitting), regardless of who's involved? That's what I'm trying to say with Milbury. I'd imagine people reacted to his incident by saying "Geez, what an idiot, he'll be lucky if he isn't suspended by the league." With those on ice incidents it was more like "
this jerk should be out of the game for good!"
Sportacus
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Kyle McMahon
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MacT was jailed for a year for vehicular homicide in Boston in the early 80s. He killed a woman, and I think he was driving drunk, but don't quote me on that.
Gilmour was accused of sexual assault involving a teenage babysitter in St. Louis in the 80s, but was cleared of all charges as far as I know.
MXD
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Yes, but isn't one of them (shooting) much more so than the other (hitting), regardless of who's involved? That's what I'm trying to say with Milbury. I'd imagine people reacted to his incident by saying "Geez, what an idiot, he'll be lucky if he isn't suspended by the league." With those on ice incidents it was more like "
I guess it's all about consequences then... I know guys that could kill me (I'm a grown-up men) with a punch or a kick - or send me into a deep coma - . So for them, to hit me is alike to shoot me.
Both acts are condemnable if the victim is non-consentent (not talking about a bar fight...) -- only one of the (shooting) have more chances to be fatal than hitting, and has a much "clearer" intent about it.
EventHorizon
Bring Back Ties!
How about Eddie Livingstone? I mean, this guy is the reason we are all watching the National Hockey League instead of the National Hockey Association. You've got to be a whole new level of a-hole for people to start an entire new league without you.
Kyle McMahon
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Yes, the end result of your actions is important, at least to me. If the guy Milbury hit with the shoe had somehow died, I'd agree that Milbury would be worthy of consideration for the worst person associated with hockey.
When you shoot a person with a gun, your intention is almost certainly to kill them. If you did it to some random person on the street, you'd be charged with attempted murder and go to jail. If you just walked up to a random person and punched them, the charge would be assault and you'd probably only get probabtion or a fine. There's a lot of guys that could probably kill me with one brutal blow as well, but unless I actually died, there'd be no murder-related charges. And even though there are guys out there that could theoretically kill you or I with their fists, the risk of it happening is still far, far less than if they were to shoot us.
Nalyd Psycho
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Not really, most players had to have summer jobs. Not as bad as in the early NHL days when players had to work egular jobs and sometimes take a season off to support their family. But it still wasn't a family supporting wage for the low end players.
Acutally I think this one has some merit to it. It's not Crosby's fault though it's the way the league has used him and his image. I've found myself forced to turn off the tv out of anger in some situations expecially now in the playoffs. The kid's being pimped every second he can be. There have been two occasions in the playoffs where the announcers have applauded Crosbys abilities on goals that he wasn't even involved in. Not to mention the "Crosby cam" repeated comparisons (some quite rediculous) to Gretzky, and the my personal favorite their obsession with calling the Penguins "Crosbys team". In the end I think the media that has carried the sports have been worse for the sport in a whole then any single person could have ever been. Yeah things like the abusive ***** and stupid jackasses that litter ther land scape the Ballards, Bettmans, Dantons, *cough*Heatleys*cough* have hurt the sports images but nobody has been worse for the game then those that cover it.
Wisent
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That is true, only the stars earned a lot. Ii just saw a documentary when it was said that one of the players (don`t remember which one, I think Cyclone or Ross) was paid triple of the Canadian Prime Minister`s salary. I wonder how times for hockey players could take a change for the worse again after a decent beginning.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
One league. When America and Western Canada had their own pro-leagues, players had bargaining power. That's why Lalonde played one year for the Vancouver Millionaires. He wanted more money from Montreal, they refused, Lalonde signed out West, next season, Montreal ponied up the dough and Lalonde returned.
BraveSirRobin
Ducks offseason
How about Kokusai Green, the Yakuza group that apparently used the Lightning as a money laundering scheme?
Big Phil
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Craig MacTavish came out of a bar back in May 1984 drunk in Boston. He hit a woman - a pedestrian - and killed her. He spent one year behind bars and then was traded to Edmonton in 1985. I'm sure he was traded for the same reason Heatley was back in 2005. A lot of people dont know that MacTavish was a Bruins for 5 years. Now does that make him a bad person? No. He made a very BAD choice that night and he ended a life and ruined others but he's paid for his crime. Grant Fuhr and Bob Probert both were suspended from the NHL for substance abuse. Rick Middleton had some kind of trouble with the law with the NYR. They all turned their lives around.
As for Gilmour if I remember correctly there were no charges in that incident. He was just quietly traded to Calgary. He was what 24, 25 years old? If it is true how many 25 years olds have had sex or would want to have sex with a 16 year old? Come on now. You think Sidney Crosby couldnt get ANYONE he wanted? Ask Phil Esposito. He said that every player - even Bobby Orr - would get all the action they could get - Orr apparently did at least before he met his wife. Were they all bad people?
Big Phil
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Just a lot of specualtion. Hull divorced his wife but a lot of the alleged abuse is just that - alleged.
The racist crap you get from is back in 1997 when he apparently told a Russian reporter that "Hitler had some good ideas but went too far." Did he say that? He claims he was grossly misinterpreted. Hull may have been a bad husband but for the image of the game no one was better. The stories you hear of Hull are always good. Signing autographs, taking time for the fans, which is true on both counts.
As for Milbury am i the only one that can understand why he went into the stands? Look at the footage of the tape just before O'Reilly attacks the one fan, the guy has a stick - I think it was Stan Jonathan's - in his hand. Jonathan apparently got hit over the head with his stick. This was the Big Bad Bruins these MSG fans were messing with. Not a smart move. Peter McNab was even in on it. Plus Milbury only got I believe a 4-game suspension for it. He was a rotten GM, but I commend what he did that night, the fans deserved it, oh and the Detroit Pistons fans deserved it too by the way people.
mcphee
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Steven Brunt spoke recently on Mtl radio about the Bobby Hull/racism story. It was crap and apparently a very nice settlement was made in Hull's favour.
pappyline
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Interesting to know that. Didn't see the fact that he was absolved publisized at all.
No doubt, he was a womanizer & a bad husband but there are two sides to every story. We have never really heard Bobby's side but his wife & daughter really did a job on his reputation in a legends of hockey TV show a few years back.
I know Joanne looked pretty happy to be married to Bobby when they were handing him the $1million WHA signing bonus back in 72.
EatSleepJeep
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South Florida Canuck
Biggest Canucks Superfan in South Florida
Bruce McNall - was a crook and went to prison for his illegal activities
Bob Goodenow - Tried to turn the NHL into Major League Baseball by escalating player salaries far beyond what they were worth. A lot of people claim he was great for the players.. yeah he was, but he costed the owners and the sport itself tons of money, and his stubborness in accepting a salary cap ultimately costed us fans an entire season, and him his job
John McMullen - Moved the Colorado Rockies to New Jersey. I've said it once and I'll say it again. The New York area DOES NOT need 3 teams. It was too many back in 1982 and it is too many today. stupid stupid stupid
John Ziegler - He was the one who allowed the Rockies to move into New Jersey, sticking the league with three teams in the NY area, which as I said was stupid. Ziegler was ready to give in to owners like Harold Ballard who wanted the WHA folded. Ballard wanted no teams in Winnipeg, Quebec, Edmonton or Hartford and there were a lot of owners who agreed with him.
Clarence Campbell - Worst NHL president ever. Under his watch, the Kansas City Scouts went bankrupt, then moved to Denver. The California Golden Seals moved to Cleveland, then folded. The Penguins went bankrupt. The Atlanta Flames who actually didn't draw as bad as people think (They actually outdrew the Atlanta Hawks) were moved to a 6000 seat arena in Calgary. Had Ted Turner been able to buy the team, it would have done a lot to promote hockey in the US. Too bad Campbell didn't have the vision to see that. As bad as people think Bettman is, he is a thousand times better than Ziegler or Campbell
Bob Goodenow - Tried to turn the NHL into Major League Baseball by escalating player salaries far beyond what they were worth. A lot of people claim he was great for the players.. yeah he was, but he costed the owners and the sport itself tons of money, and his stubborness in accepting a salary cap ultimately costed us fans an entire season, and him his job
John McMullen - Moved the Colorado Rockies to New Jersey. I've said it once and I'll say it again. The New York area DOES NOT need 3 teams. It was too many back in 1982 and it is too many today. stupid stupid stupid
John Ziegler - He was the one who allowed the Rockies to move into New Jersey, sticking the league with three teams in the NY area, which as I said was stupid. Ziegler was ready to give in to owners like Harold Ballard who wanted the WHA folded. Ballard wanted no teams in Winnipeg, Quebec, Edmonton or Hartford and there were a lot of owners who agreed with him.
Clarence Campbell - Worst NHL president ever. Under his watch, the Kansas City Scouts went bankrupt, then moved to Denver. The California Golden Seals moved to Cleveland, then folded. The Penguins went bankrupt. The Atlanta Flames who actually didn't draw as bad as people think (They actually outdrew the Atlanta Hawks) were moved to a 6000 seat arena in Calgary. Had Ted Turner been able to buy the team, it would have done a lot to promote hockey in the US. Too bad Campbell didn't have the vision to see that. As bad as people think Bettman is, he is a thousand times better than Ziegler or Campbell
mcphee
Registered User
People are never just one thing. Sometimes they do something so extreme that it clouds everything else, but there's usuaully more to people than their worst thing.
When the stories of Hull's issues came up, I don't remember a specific story of spousal abuse. I remember innuendo. The urban legend was that Joanne Hull met Ferguson in an airport and thanked him. True ? I tend to doubt it. I'd rather see a specific charge than trash the guy's reputation.
