Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by User9992, Jun 10, 2021.
Even Antti Niemi won with the Hawks.
No love for Tim Thomas. Closest thing we have had to a Hasek clone. Entertaining to watch.
Same reason Osgood never got any respect. Always put on the team in front, when Osgood was instrumental in 1998 and 2008 Cup Wins.
Since 2010-2011 its easily Price.
1 1 5 5 5 6 7 in wins
1 4 6 7 9 in % (.918)
1 7 14 17 in hart
1 3 4 5 7 10 in vezina
AS 1 1x
.926% in the POs
Strength: Absolute best peak, ainec. PO numbers really strong on bad teams. Best wins out of all. Only G on the list to lead the league in %, 2nd in games played
Weakness: Only one AS. Injuries.
1 3 4 6 7 in wins
4 5 7 9 in % (.918)
1 2 4 5 6 vezina
3 14 17 hart
.926% in the POs
Strength: PO save%, Vezina voting, as 1 as 2, wins, Hart nom.
Weakness: Relatively weak save % finishes
5 5 7 7 9 in wins
2 2 3 in % (.921)
1 2 5 7 Vezina
.927% in the POs
Strength: Best PO %, best save % reg. High numbers of wins.
Weakness: Hart voting... Only one ? Maybe he's on a very strong team? 4 players he's played with have received (more/higher or both) Hart votes than him and three more have received (more/higher or both) votes before/after joining the Bs.
1 2 3 9 10 Wins
7 7 9 in %
1 2 2 3 7 Vezina
4 7 8 12 Hart
.915% in POs
Strength: Wins, vezina voting 4x top 3 is best in class.
Weakness: relatively weak po save %, weak % reg
2 5 6 9 9 in wins
5 in save %
2 3 5 7 8 9 vezina
.925% in POs'
Strength: Conn Smythe, po save %
Weakness: Everything else outside of the POs.
2 3 5 7 10 10 in wins
1 2 9 in %
1 1 8 8 9 in Vezina
3 5 15 Hart
As 1 X2
.899 in playoffs
Strength: 2x vezina wins, 2x AS-1.
Weakness: POs, everything else outside of 12-13 and 18-19.
Looking at this its pretty clear how these should be ranked.
Price Rinne Rask Lundqvist
The only reason why you don't have Price at the top is if you care that he got injured. He clearly adds very good numbers if he does not. He was leading the league in save % and destroying everything in 16-17.
Lundqvist, Rask, Rinne
Those are stupid or misguided enough for me thanks. He could have easily won the conn smythe one of those years. He carried the hawks for the years following their cups.
Also Scott Darling "carried" them when Crawford was out.
If we place more value in showing in critical moments and dragging your team deep in playoffs over regular season (looking at folks like Bob) ensuring wins ove possibly more talanted and hot teams I would go with just 2 names:
1. Lundquist. His run with Rangers in 2014 to SCF is especially impressive.
2. Quick - he was a key to Kings 2012 win, and to this Blackhawks fan, was slightly better than Crawford in 2014 WCF matchup, giving Kings slight edge to win that 7 game series.
Everyone has a personal bias and mine is Andrei Vasilevskiy. I have seen him play live a few times and he's amazing.
Same with Ozzy, he could have won either the 1998 or 2008 Smythe's, but they always said he was just an average goalie with a great team. I am not saying Ozzie was a Vezina goalie, but he was definitely well above average, especially at playoff time where he was very good most of the time. Meanwhile Cujo and was always considered a much better goalie, but he also played for us and didn't do that well.
I think the only reason he isn't Top 5-10 in this right now, is that this is since 2010, and he has only been starter for that past 5-6 years. Same reason Hellebuyck isn't. If this was since 2015, then they are probably 1-2.
Niemi never put up the numbers Crawford did.
The Blackhawks overcame Niemi, while Crawford was one of the primary reasons they won in 2013 and 2015. He was also the biggest reason they were a playoff team in 2016 and 2017.
The lack of David Ayers in this forum is mind blowing.
Top 10 Goalies 2010-2021: GSAA
01. Rask - 129.39
02. Lundqvist - 100.34
03. Price - 93.26
04. Bishop - 85.87
05. Vasilevskiy - 68.64
06. Luongo - 67.84
07. Rinne - 66.2
08. Varlamov - 60.9
09. Crawford - 60.37
10. Lehner - 60.3
Top 10 Goalies 2010-2021: GSAx
01. Lundqvist - 215.97(!!!)
02. Gibson - 80.77
03. Halak - 77.87
04. Schneider - 60.32
05. Crawford - 55.02
06. Price - 53.01
07. Quick - 52.24
08. Holtby - 48.85
09. Bobrovsky - 44.79
10. Bishop - 42.26
Top 10 Goalies 2010-2021: dFSv%
01. Gibson - 0.8563
02. Lundqvist - 0.8145
03. Schneider - 0.3891
04. Hellebuyck - 0.36
05. Crawford - 0.348
06. Halak - 0.3108
07. Holtby - 0.2436
08. Rask - 0.2125
09. Quick - 0.1958
10. Fleury - 0.1658
Goalies that appear in all 3 categories:
Goalies that appear in 2 of 3 categories
I think that's 9 of your top 10 right there, and then you pick a 10th based on peak season? So probably Bobrovsky?
NOTE: I set the minimum games played to 300 games over the time frame (12 seasons). I felt this was a reasonable limit to eliminate outliers due to small sample, and two eliminate back-up goalies that played few games per season against selectively weaker competition.
NOTE 2: This is a pretty rudimentary run through. It speaks to who had the greatest cumulative impact overall, but doesn't speak to peaks or primes. To do that, I'd have to go in and look at 3 or 5 year chunks to see which goalies had the best, most impactful stretches within that time frame. Maybe I'll do it if I'm ever bored or wired and can't sleep.
Goalies are boring now. Its all about being big, going butterfly and playing angles more than reacting.
We will never see a unique floppy style like hasek again, or even a hybrid like brodeur who can rise above the rest.
Any goalie in the league can get hot and be unbeatable for a month. It all seems to come down to confidence now and the only real thing that really separates the best goalie from the worst now is consistency.
If Price had played for a Stanley Cup contender for the past decade I believe he'd be #1 by a mile (or 1.6 km).
If hypotheticals don't make for sound arguments, then look up how many times his peers rated him as the best goalie in the league. When all other arguments fail, listen to the guys that play against him nightly, they know better than anyone.
NHLPA Player Poll 2017-18 | NHLPA.com
NHLPA Player Poll 2018-19 | NHLPA.com
NHLPA Player Poll 2019-20
(Don't know about previous seasons, couldn't find any results but I do see a pattern there.)
It may not exist if he's in Arizona. But if he played for Toronto, there would somehow be an argument that he should have already been inducted in the HHOF.
Yes, thats essentially the point I was making
I know people are gonna rip me because I follow the Leafs bandwagon but how is Price #1 if he hasn't won a single ring? Aren't there more goalies that have won rings in that decade? You as a goalie make the biggest impact on the team. So in theory shouldn't winning play a huge factor in rankings? When Price wins a ring, I think we could agree he's extremely top tier. But this argument is like saying Chris Paul is #1 point guard in the league since 2010 despite not winning a single ring so far.
Are those comprehensive #s, or regular season #s? Just for clarity's sake--I appreciate the work!
They're just regular season numbers.
I can take a look at playoff numbers, but the sample sizes for games played are so far over the map, I'm not sure the data would be any more relevant than simply isolating and weighing individual performances/runs to get a handle on playoff performance or impact.
That's just a guess. I could be wrong though, so I'll take a look out of curiosity when I have a chance.
Murray is probably closer to the Top 10 then anyone wants to admit.
Just curious! I agree, and I think it's probably more useful to attribute how those guys on the list fared in the playoffs IN ADDITION to this numbers rather than comprehensively.
Was just asking because Quick has a bit of a rep around here about being a playoff-only goalie (hell it comes up in this very thread) and I think some folks will be surprised to see his name on there as being pretty awesome over time, though he had some major peaks and valleys, with the valleys most often around injury. Will never forget the stories about him having to lay down in the aisle on the Kings plane because his back was so messed up in the 2012 playoffs. I always wonder what his rep would be if he were in a different market because it seems like the bullshit narrative stuck (he sucks in the regular season and only had one good playoff).
Lol, that's nonsense.
Quick has been an elite goaltender for the bulk of his career.
The backlash on HFBoards is always disproportionate to the original 'crime'.
Jonathan Toews' overall on-ice impact gets mildly overrated particularly relative to guys like Kopitar and Bergeron, HFBoards reacts like he's a bum who won a contest and got to ride along on a dynasty and Olympic team.
Quick is dominant on the big stage and fans and media are calling him the best goalie in the world, and all of a sudden as far as HFBoards is concerned he's just a guy who gets hot from time to time in front of a defensive powerhouse.
There are endless examples. HFBoards loves to lash out at players who start to get more attention or praise than the hive-mind deems them worthy of.
The truth is, Quick in 2012, particularly the playoffs, is not the Quick you get every night. That goes for literally any player - they are generally not as good as their best stretch of play.
Quick has consistently posted a save percentage better than one would expect given the volume and quality of chances faced, and done so to a greater degree and with greater consistently than the vast majority of NHL-quality starters that have passed through the league in the last decade.
Is he the best goalie of the last decade+? No. Is he one of the 10 best out of the damn near 300 goalies that passed through the NHL in that time? Hell yes.
Separate names with a comma.