Which year had the weakest competition?

Felidae

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Assessing goal scoring, Art Ross, Hart, and Norris competition individually.

Then perhaps we could discuss which year or years had the overall weakest competition.
 

The Panther

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I don't know if there's really such a thing as "weakest competition" at the top end, unless there are simply no super-elite players playing in one given season. But has that ever happened in history? I doubt it.

I could see the argument for certain periods (1943-45; 1968-1975; 1979-1982) as having weaker pools of teams based on parity and levels of competition or whatever, but I don't think there's ever any point where there aren't any elite forwards or defence.
 

solidmotion

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i don't know anything about anything but what about the period from 51 to 54? howe just lapped the field. by the mid-50s players like beliveau, bathgate, geoffrion and moore could give him a run for his money. but in the early 50s it looks like he was all alone as an elite player.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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in recent memory, i'd say the 2001-'02 season, at least for offense.

the first half of the season's scoring leaders:

Screen Shot 2018-07-16 at 9.37.20 PM.png


second half scoring leaders:

Screen Shot 2018-07-16 at 9.37.45 PM.png


those are almost completely different lists.

there are only four players on both lists: iginla (1, 4), sakic (12, 11), demitra (12, 17), naslund (17, 2). so basically, only one single player had a strong first and second half; he won the art ross and missed winning the hart by a tie-breaker.

EDIT: but maybe the whole year was pretty uncompetitive. roy and chelios had great seasons, but they were 36 and 40 years old, respectively. theodore and lidstrom just barely beat those guys by the slimmest of margins, and it was a far cry from the '89 or '93 versions of those guys. 39 year old adam oates led the league in assists, and finished in the top ten in points (7th) for the first time since 1995. 38 year old ron francis finish 9th in points. and hell, mats sundin managed to finish 4th, one point ahead of the most average year of sakic's career (he was the 1st team all-star center) and jagr not even trying.

look at the ages of the guys who got hart votes.

Screen Shot 2018-07-16 at 10.06.41 PM.png


what a no man's land for talent in the prime of its youth.
 
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TheDevilMadeMe

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i don't know anything about anything but what about the period from 51 to 54? howe just lapped the field. by the mid-50s players like beliveau, bathgate, geoffrion and moore could give him a run for his money. but in the early 50s it looks like he was all alone as an elite player.

Maurice Richard and Ted Lindsay were elite players. The late 40s and early 50s were just a very low scoring era.

The late 40s still look to be a bit depleted as the league recovered from the war, but the league looks to have been mostly back to full strength by the 1950s.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Anyway, to answer the original question:

Among years I personally witnessed as a hockey fan, 2001-02 was the weakest season for forwards. Almost everyone of note was either too old, too young, or too injured.

All-time (or at least since the NHL was created), the war depleted 1943-44 and 1944-45 are the weakest.
 
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daver

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Assessing goal scoring, Art Ross, Hart, and Norris competition individually.

Then perhaps we could discuss which year or years had the overall weakest competition.

Post 2005:

14/15 for the Art Ross. Benn maybe doesn't finish 2nd in any other year let alone win it. It was Crosby's worst regular season to date, and Malkin was underperforming, and no other 2nd tier talent (Tavares, Giroux, Getzlaf, etc...) had an unusually high career seasons. The lower scoring environment also tended to add parity to the scoring race.

I think Subban's Norris is generally viewed as the weakest.

Perry's Hart win is probably the weakest and, accordingly, Sedin's Lindsay.
 

Nick Hansen

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Agreed with Subban, Ryan Suter was neck and neck with him. Nothing wrong with him but the competition wasn't that great that year.

Jose Theodore looked like he had pretty drab competition for the Hart in 01/02. Same with St Louis 03/04.
 

GlitchMarner

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It was a low scoring year. But at the end of the day benn beat out a healthy 27 year old Crosby. So there was competion

I wonder how McDavid will fare in the Art Ross race beyond age 26. Being a generational talent, Crosby really should have grabbed that 2015 Art Ross.
 

daver

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I wonder how McDavid will fare in the Art Ross race beyond age 26. Being a generational talent, Crosby really should have grabbed that 2015 Art Ross.

Not sure why you feel the need to insert this but Crosby missed time due to a viral infection that clearly affected his production before and after his missed time plus their coach had instilled an very conservative defense first system that obviously backfired. He still had the highest PPG albeit not by much.
 

bobholly39

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I wonder how McDavid will fare in the Art Ross race beyond age 26. Being a generational talent, Crosby really should have grabbed that 2015 Art Ross.

As a fan of Crosby - i've always said he's been extremely frustrating to watch when it comes to collecting awards. Look at Ovechkin - he finds ways to win Rockets even in bad years. Crosby seems to find ways to lose trophies when he should win them:

Art Ross 2010
Art Ross 2015
Art Ross 2013 (I guess this one is trickier - he couldn't predict he'd be injured at end, but still)
Art Ross 2017 (not sure he would have paced McDavid at the end - but he certainly let his foot off the gas towards end. He at least could have made a race out of it)

Flip side is he's had amazing success at team success his whole career. One of the winning-est careers of all time - certainly in modern times.
 

bobholly39

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I look back to Howe's best seasons and i always said he had very weak top-end Art Ross competition. People love to point out to how fantastic a player Richard was - and i'm sure he was. But it would likely be akin to McDavid winning a big Art Ross this year, with Ovechkin a distant 2nd, and us saying "wow Ovechkin all time great player, so hell of a competition to Art Ross" - when in reality Ovechkin hasn't been a real threat to the art ross in many years.

I think if you look at seasons like 2014 and 2015 - a lot of the top performers underachieved. I don't know if that's weak competition - or simply players underachieving. Because there was still a lot of TOP offensive players in 2014 and 2015, just very few having strong seasons.

I think you need to look at the start of a season vs the end of a season to better judge competition. Ie going into 2018-2019, the competition is VERY STRONG. If McDavid wins the art ross with 99 points, and no one else tops 83 - it doesn't change that. It would just mean a lot of top players had bad years - but they were still competition for the top awards.
 

Nick Hansen

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The early 2000's in general seem to be place to look at. Lindros a ghost, Forsberg beginning to have injury problems, Jagr 'dying alive', some great defensemen being on their last legs and so on. There was a lull.
 
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daver

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The early 2000's in general seem to be place to look at. Lindros a ghost, Forsberg beginning to have injury problems, Jagr 'dying alive', some great defensemen being on their last legs and so on. There was a lull.

Yep, Thornton hadn't broken through yet, IGGY was a very good player but not as good as Jagr/Sakic/Lindros, Forsberg or Crosby/Malkin/OV. It's not unfair to rate those those Art Ross wins as being weak (although Forsberg's was stronger once games played were factored in.

Again, low scoring also tended to rein in scoring and tighten the field moreso when 120 to 130 point seasons were more common.

01 to 04 had three 100 point scorers (all in 02/03) while just before the DPE started to kick in (91 to 94) there were thirty-eight 100 point scorers and fifteen at 120 points and up.
 

Michael Farkas

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It's kind of silly to say it, because of injuries and the whole bit...plus, how incredibly specific it is...but how about 2010 and 2011...

I mean, just all or mostly nonsense players...

Art Ross - Henrik Sedin (probably not a HOFer)
Calder - Tyler Myers
Smythe - Toews (is he on a HOF track, really?)
Hart - Henrik Sedin (a little silly considering his partner in crime, I know, he missed like 15 games or whatever, but that's enough for me to give Henrik Sedin a Hart)
Norris - Keith (now, this aged better than I thought...I didn't think we'd see Keith rise to stardom actually)
Vezina - Ryan Miller (it's like a Cam Ward Conn Smythe, just a rather irrelevant goalie who had a great year after all the good goalies retired or were out of their prime)

1st Team had: Ryan Miller, Mike Green, Henrik Sedin on it
2nd Team had: Ilya Bryzgalov and Daniel Sedin on it

Niclas Bergfors and Michael Del Zotto were on the all-rookie team (as irrelevant as that is)

Patrick Marleau with his lone top-5 goals finish in his career.

Fringe NHLer Jeff Schultz led the league in plus/minus.

Brodeur, even at 37 with a ton of miles on him led the league in GP, wins and shutouts...

Boston's cushy system allows a rookie goalie to lead the league in GAA (by a mile) and save pct.

Ty Conklin (Ty! Conklin!) finished 6th in save pct., Antti Niemi finished 4th (narrowly 2nd) in GAA

The Flyers made the playoffs via a shootout...and go to the Stanley Cup Final with a minor league goaltender and a third pairing that was unable to take the ice without getting dashed...and they lose in the most ridiculous fashion...

Not that this was terribly abnormal, but the powerhouse Caps lost to #8 Montreal, Montreal then eliminates the defending Cup champs only to lose their goalie and give way to Philadelphia easily in the Conference Final. The two shortest series of the playoffs were both Conference Final series...

I mean, that year was a joke haha

The next year, it doesn't get much better...

Now Daniel Sedin wins an Art Ross, Corey Perry (also not a HOFer you have to imagine) wins a Hart by being hot for the last 20 games, Lidstrom gets his career achievement Norris while being a minus for the first time in his life...

A minor league journeyman wins the Vezina...

I mean, look at the 1st team...some years it's a veritable who's who...this year it's a veritable "who's that?"
Tim Thomas, 80-year-old Nicklas Lidstrom, Shea Weber, Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin and Corey Perry. I guess the defense are going to the Hall, but the one guy that really, really deserves it doesn't deserve to be there with all due respect...

Second-Team picks up some of the slack: Rinne, Chara, Visnovsky, Stamkos, Ovechkin, St. Louis.

Ryan Kesler finishes 4th in goals, Henrik Zetterberg's 56 assists earn in a top-5 finish...

Not that plus/minus is reliability for the stars but: Kevin Bieksa, Toni Lydman, Matt Carle, Adam McQuaid and Andrej Meszaros just about took the crown...

Jonas Hiller was 4th in save pct. ...the guy who couldn't standup or play butterfly...? Come on...

I don't know, just a couple really weird seasons in terms of who was lauded with awards...the War years definitely take the cake in short order, but with all due respect, there's a lot of dreck here...
 

JackSlater

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I don't know if there's really such a thing as "weakest competition" at the top end, unless there are simply no super-elite players playing in one given season. But has that ever happened in history? I doubt it.

I could see the argument for certain periods (1943-45; 1968-1975; 1979-1982) as having weaker pools of teams based on parity and levels of competition or whatever, but I don't think there's ever any point where there aren't any elite forwards or defence.

There has to be a weakest period. That isn't the same thing as meaning that there were no elite forwards or defencemen.

It was a low scoring year. But at the end of the day benn beat out a healthy 27 year old Crosby. So there was competion

I thought at the time that Crosby probably wins that trophy if not for the mumps thing. I didn't focus on exactly when he would have started feeling the effects but I recall that he had an early season dip in performance. Maybe I'm wrong though.

For the answer to this question, I think it's the WW2 period and some of the years that followed.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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I've yet to see a single argument for the early 50s being weaker than... really any time in the 1940s, other than a lack of belief at how good Gordie Howe was.

Re: @Mike Farkas , 2010 sure looks better if Ovechkin isn't suspended, right? I can't see that year qualifying myself - Henrik Sedin had a legit spike season, Crosby was developing a two-way game, and the writers were obviously desperate to vote for somone not named Crosby or Ovechkin. 2011... pretty weak season, yes.
 

solidmotion

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Maurice Richard and Ted Lindsay were elite players. The late 40s and early 50s were just a very low scoring era.
in such a small league, where individuals might have a large impact on the overall scoring environment, couldn't you say that a dearth of high-end talent directly led to it being a low-scoring league? (nothing against richard or lindsay but they weren't dominating the league in terms of points even before howe took over.)

taking a cursory look at it, the only teams to score 3+ goals per game in the early 50s (50-54) were the red wings 4 times, plus toronto once. in the late 50s, the only teams to do so were the montreal canadiens, 5 times.
 

GuineaPig

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I think 2003-04 was similarly weak to 2001-02. Iginla was second in Hart voting in both seasons; but in the latter he only scored 73 points. Has there ever been a weaker second-place Hart finish?
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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in such a small league, where individuals might have a large impact on the overall scoring environment, couldn't you say that a dearth of high-end talent directly led to it being a low-scoring league? (nothing against richard or lindsay but they weren't dominating the league in terms of points even before howe took over.)

taking a cursory look at it, the only teams to score 3+ goals per game in the early 50s (50-54) were the red wings 4 times, plus toronto once. in the late 50s, the only teams to do so were the montreal canadiens, 5 times.

Usually, the more broadly talented the league is, the lower scoring things become.

League scoring skyrocketed in the worst of the WW2-ravaged years, as the majority of NHL talent left the league to join the war effort. As the talent slowly came back, leaguewide scoring dropped.

Why did scoring rise again in the mid-1950s? A few theories have been posited: One is the copycat effect. The most successful team of the early 1940s was the defensive-minded Toronto Maple Leafs, so the league as a whole became more defensive. Then the Wings created their own dynasty with a more aggressive attacking team, and the rest of the league followed suit. Especially late 50s Montreal, who pioneered the term "firewagon hockey."

I don't think the early 50s NHL that Howe dominated had completely recovered from WW2. And I do think that the Beliveau/Hull generation was stronger (indeed, there is reason to believe that the late 50s/early 60s represents a golden era of talent). The belief that the early 50s NHL was a little on the weak side is, in fact, the only reason to conclude that Mario Lemieux was a better peak scorer than Howe, who was actually more dominant over his peers for those 4 years.

All that said, the early 1950s is definitely NOT the answer to this thread. It was definitely a stronger period of hockey than the late 1940s, which was much stronger than the mid 1940s.
 
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Epsilon

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I think 2003-04 was similarly weak to 2001-02. Iginla was second in Hart voting in both seasons; but in the latter he only scored 73 points. Has there ever been a weaker second-place Hart finish?

The media during that time period overrated Iginla when it came to Hart voting, same thing happened in 07-08.
 

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