Which team takes the biggest step back this year?

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tucker3434

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Vegas, NJ, and COL are a good bet. Vegas for obvious reasons (career seasons from everyone) and NJ and COL (need Hall and McKinnon to repeat their career seasons) in order to have a chance at the playoffs.

There were three teams that dropped over 30 points in the standings between 16-17 and 17-18. I believe only one did it the year before. That what’s the biggest step back has been the last couple years, and I don’t see NJ or Colorado as having 65 point rosters. The biggest step back will come from someone with more to lose.
 

HolyCrap

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I’d say Habs could take a step back but that tire fire of a team is one step backwards from falling off a cliff. They literally have no direction.
 

Kismet

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That's not the issue, the issue is being held to a different standards to the rest of the teams in their bubble. Leaf fans compare their team to the Jets / Bolts / Bruins tier of teams which they have ranked with and other fans want to rank them with the Blue Jackets / Wild / Flyers group.

The Leafs finished 7-9 points behind the Jets/Bolts/Bruins "group" last year. They finished 4-8 points ahead of the Jackets/Wild/Flyers "group". I don't think it's crazy that people view them on either side of that.
 

Foppberg

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That's not the issue, the issue is being held to a different standards to the rest of the teams in their bubble. Leaf fans compare their team to the Jets / Bolts / Bruins tier of teams which they have ranked with and other fans want to rank them with the Blue Jackets / Wild / Flyers group.



This thread is about taking a step back by 10 points or missing the playoffs. By saying Toronto, you are saying they are a bubble team or will miss the playoffs. This is different than those teams. It is frankly ridiculous to suggest a 105 point team who added Tavares is going to be fighting for a wildcard spot until the last days of the season.

Leafs are not in that tier. However I don't have the Bruins in that tier either.
 

boredmale

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I’d say Habs could take a step back but that tire fire of a team is one step backwards from falling off a cliff. They literally have no direction.

71 points? How much worse can they get, you have to figure a slight bounce back by Price gets them to 75 points at least
 

Foppberg

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Man you guys got me fired up is it October yet? I want to feel great victory or pain, just let me feel something.
For me right now it's:

Tier 1: Winnipeg/Washington/TB/Nashville
Tier 2: San Jose/Pittsburgh/Boston
Tier 3: St.Louis/*Vegas/Toronto

That's how I see the way things are right now. Is it based in anything other than my opinion? Nope. Bigger thing with Toronto is defense, unbelievable offense but you can't rely on Andersen standing on his head forever.

* Hard to rank Vegas as they're such an outlier of a team but after the season they had they gotta be ranked somewhere in the top.
 
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Michel Beauchamp

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I will put big money on Vegas regressing the most. I don't think there has been a more obvious choice in years. They were a top 3-5 team all year and went to the fianls as an expansion team,. No way all those players repeat what they did.
That's why the Leafs should not be mentioned in the same breathe. Will Rielly/Matthews/Marner/Nylander Tavares all regress? They're just not the same type of core as Vegas.
You couldn't help yourself ?

You're funny.
 

Kamiccolo

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For me right now it's:

Tier 1: Winnipeg/Washington/TB/Nashville
Tier 2: San Jose/Pittsburgh/Boston
Tier 3: St.Louis/*Vegas/Toronto

That's how I see the way things are right now. Is it based in anything other than my opinion? Nope. Bigger thing with Toronto is defense, unbelievable offense but you can't rely on Andersen standing on his head forever.

* Hard to rank Vegas as they're such an outlier of a team but after the season they had they gotta be ranked somewhere in the top.

Andersen posted a career average year so I am not sure why this keeps getting repeated. He had a career average year nd the team was 12th in GA. There is too much doom and gloom. By far the most fabricated story of this offseason involving the Leafs.
 

Foppberg

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Andersen posted a career average year so I am not sure why this keeps getting repeated. He had a career average year nd the team was 12th in GA. There is too much doom and gloom. By far the most fabricated story of this offseason involving the Leafs.
Well you can't possibly look at the Leafs defense and say 'yup, they're up there with Nashville, TB, Winnipeg etc'
 

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Obviously the reigning champions. They have the deepest fall even with a decent performance.
 

Kamiccolo

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Well you can't possibly look at the Leafs defense and say 'yup, they're up there with Nashville, TB, Winnipeg etc'

Of course not. However the last three winners weren't up there with them either. In fact, Nashville lost to a team built like Toronto in the finals that had a weak defense covered by their goalie and an elite offense that was so deep no top 4 can defend against it.

Plus it's not like the defense is top of the line, but it is more than passable, and is actually elite in one aspect which is moving the puck and producing offense from the blue line. The only team weakness is defending sustained forecheck but they are not the worst in the league and if they have possession more from their offense it limits those times.
 

Foppberg

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Of course not. However the last three winners weren't up there with them either. In fact, Nashville lost to a team built like Toronto in the finals that had a weak defense covered by their goalie and an elite offense that was so deep no top 4 can defend against it.

Plus it's not like the defense is top of the line, but it is more than passable, and is actually elite in one aspect which is moving the puck and producing offense from the blue line. The only team weakness is defending sustained forecheck but they are not the worst in the league and if they have possession more from their offense it limits those times.

You mean Winnipeg, yes? But even so I don't think using Vegas as a comparison is too strong of one considering they're such an unknown of a team on how good they actually are. But you even said so yourself, covered by their goaltender. I don't think relying on your goaltender to mask the shortcomings of the defense wins you cups, or when it does it's a rare feat.

IMO for Toronto to enter that cup contender category they'd have to go out and acquire a legit top pairing Dman, and if that means parting with someone like Nylander so be it.

But I also had the Kings going to the finals, so.
 

Kamiccolo

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You mean Winnipeg, yes? But even so I don't think using Vegas as a comparison is too strong of one considering they're such an unknown of a team on how good they actually are. But you even said so yourself, covered by their goaltender. I don't think relying on your goaltender to mask the shortcomings of the defense wins you cups, or when it does it's a rare feat.

IMO for Toronto to enter that cup contender category they'd have to go out and acquire a legit top pairing Dman, and if that means parting with someone like Nylander so be it.

But I also had the Kings going to the finals, so.

Right but we've been over this. There is no top pairing D hat Nylander returns. The offers on here are 2nd pairing D or guys over 30. If there was someone who had a similar aged top pairing D and wanted to do the deal it would likely be done already.

It doesn't exist, so ice the best roster possible instead of downgrading in an attempt to balance out.
 

Foppberg

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Right but we've been over this. There is no top pairing D hat Nylander returns. The offers on here are 2nd pairing D or guys over 30. If there was someone who had a similar aged top pairing D and wanted to do the deal it would likely be done already.

It doesn't exist, so ice the best roster possible instead of downgrading in an attempt to balance out.
I mean I haven't been over anything, I don't typically partake in main board threads. But I see your point.
 

Lshap

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I honestly don't really care but there is actually a 3rd option here you seem to keep missing. The world isn't against us Leaf fans and all those people still happen to be wrong.
Those people can only be wrong and you can only be right in April 2019. Until then, other people's educated guesses carry as much weight as yours.

And yes, they qualify as educated guesses even if you disagree with them.
 

TheBeastCoast

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Those people can only be wrong and you can only be right in April 2019. Until then, other people's educated guesses carry as much weight as yours.

And yes, they qualify as educated guesses even if you disagree with them.
Huh? I never once said anything about anybody's opinions holding weight or not. I never even said I disagreed with anyone. So what exactly is your point?
 

Lshap

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Huh? I never once said anything about anybody's opinions holding weight or not. I never even said I disagreed with anyone. So what exactly is your point?
Your words:

I honestly don't really care but there is actually a 3rd option here you seem to keep missing. The world isn't against us Leaf fans and all those people still happen to be wrong.
And now I'll repeat: "All those people" you claim might be wrong cannot be wrong in July 2018 about an educated guess about the Leafs status in April 2019.
 

Man Bear Pig

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Well you can't possibly look at the Leafs defense and say 'yup, they're up there with Nashville, TB, Winnipeg etc'
Tampa Bay gave up 4 more goals than the Leafs last year. If the Leafs gave up 4 less goals they'd be in the top 10 in goals against. So no, while the Leafs may not have the defenses that Nashville and Winnipeg have, can we stop pretending that the defense is a tire fire and much worse than say, Tampa Bay? It doesn't matter if you look at the Leafs defense and don't think they're good because the stats say you're wrong. The narrative around here that the Leafs defense is awful is pretty amazing when it's so easily disproven. The Leafs need to add another defender, obviously, but to think they can't win a cup with their current defense also completely ignores reality. The Caps won the cup after giving up 8 more goals than the Leafs. The Penguins cup was won with a less than stellar defense too.
 
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