Which of our big three FA's would you be willing to give up?

Barrie22

Shark fan in hiding
Aug 11, 2009
24,795
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ontario
All things are possible with a Burish buyout... (I increased the cap by 3mil from 64.3 to 67.3). I really think Burish will get bought out - even moreso than Havlat. If Havlat comes back and has a half decently effective season, I don't see them getting rid of him the following season seeing as he only has one year left. It'd be nice to see Patty and JT take a small discount, but they won't take a huge one like some here want. Too much pressure from the NHLPA when looking at comps and if they continue to play like they have, they don't deserve to take a significant pay cut.

FORWARDS
Tomas Hertl ($1.350m) / Joe Thornton ($6.700m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.500m) / Logan Couture ($6.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($6.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.350m)
Matt Nieto ($0.925m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Tommy Wingels ($1.200m)
James Sheppard ($0.872m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Matt Irwin ($1.000m) / Dan Boyle ($5.500m)
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Jason Demers ($2.250m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($0.688m)
OTHER
Buyout: Adam Burish ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $67,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,744,000; BONUSES: $590,833
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $146,833

thornton has already shown in his career that he does not care what the nhlpa thinks about what he deserves. after his hart season and back to back 90 assist seasons thornton could of easily asked for 9-10 million dollars a season, but took a huge discount and only signed for 7.5
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
Dec 21, 2009
47,379
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Bay Area
If you held a gun to my head, I'd say Boyle. But really I want to keep them all. They represent the three things we lack as an organization: Big playmaking #1C (I'm not even close to ready to call Hertl that), big fast stud two-way goalscorer, and a high octane playmaking top-pairing offensive defenseman. We need all three to stay unless we acquire a suitable replacement (Jake Gardiner).
 

19sharks19

Registered User
Mar 16, 2006
3,186
0
T.O. to S.J. & back
thornton has already shown in his career that he does not care what the nhlpa thinks about what he deserves. after his hart season and back to back 90 assist seasons thornton could of easily asked for 9-10 million dollars a season, but took a huge discount and only signed for 7.5

I agree, definitely not Jumbo as once he had arrived, we've become contenders year in and year out. His just reward (other than a cup ring) would be to retire a Shark.

Patty, I love as well so, hope to see him retire a Shark as well. As with Jumbo, still brings much to the team.

Boyle, although as well he brings much to the team, he would seem the most obvious but in turn, would only need a short term contract. So, if agreement to much lower dollars, it'd be great to see him retire here as well otherwise, the only choice I would feel as the one of the three.

If you held a gun to my head, I'd say Boyle. But really I want to keep them all. They represent the three things we lack as an organization: Big playmaking #1C (I'm not even close to ready to call Hertl that), big fast stud two-way goalscorer, and a high octane playmaking top-pairing offensive defenseman. We need all three to stay unless we acquire a suitable replacement (Jake Gardiner).

In total agreement. Some successful organizations, Detroit, Jersey (although, they recently let so many walk away on their own and thus, we are now seeing the negative affect), have a good history of letting their true blood retire within.
 

Matalvatz

Registered User
Jun 19, 2007
533
1
How much of a pay cut would each one have to take for us to keep all three of them? Assuming no buyouts for Burish or Havlat.

Sorry, I'm lazy and I don't want to do the math. LOL
 

19sharks19

Registered User
Mar 16, 2006
3,186
0
T.O. to S.J. & back
All things are possible with a Burish buyout... (I increased the cap by 3mil from 64.3 to 67.3). I really think Burish will get bought out - even moreso than Havlat. If Havlat comes back and has a half decently effective season, I don't see them getting rid of him the following season seeing as he only has one year left. It'd be nice to see Patty and JT take a small discount, but they won't take a huge one like some here want. Too much pressure from the NHLPA when looking at comps and if they continue to play like they have, they don't deserve to take a significant pay cut.

FORWARDS
Tomas Hertl ($1.350m) / Joe Thornton ($6.700m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.500m) / Logan Couture ($6.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($6.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.350m)
Matt Nieto ($0.925m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Tommy Wingels ($1.200m)
James Sheppard ($0.872m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Matt Irwin ($1.000m) / Dan Boyle ($5.500m)
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Jason Demers ($2.250m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($0.688m)
OTHER
Buyout: Adam Burish ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $67,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,744,000; BONUSES: $590,833
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $146,833

Good point and I think so as well. Burish is not even close to be worth what he is being paid. Per the cap, I have heard on many a time hear on hockey talk that the cap might even go up beyond $70 mil again next season. On Havlat; if he comes back and it is the same old, I bet he as well will be bought out. And, justifiably so.
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
15,716
4,975
With how Marleau is playing this year (and I don't think it is a coincidence), why should he take a pay cut? Even Thornton...he's easily worth 6 million. Plus, both he and Marleau might not get the term they had previously, which would mean they could command a higher yearly hit.

Even Boyle, while in my opinion not worth 6.7 million, is a rare enough commodity that he shouldn't get too much of a cap hit.
 

Timos Death Stare

Seek and Destroy
Aug 9, 2008
3,831
77
CA
Also, if the cap goes up to 70mil, there's really no way we can't keep the big three. If the cap didn't go up at all from this year you could do some tricks to keep them all here (mostly around buying out Havlat).

Bottom line, if we want them, and they want to be here, deals will get done.
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
15,716
4,975
Bottom line, if we want them, and they want to be here, deals will get done.

Thornton and Boyle have both explicitly said that they want to remain here. No smokescreen.

Marleau doesn't even have to say it, considering he's spent his entire career here.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,232
13,602
Folsom
How much of a pay cut would each one have to take for us to keep all three of them? Assuming no buyouts for Burish or Havlat.

Sorry, I'm lazy and I don't want to do the math. LOL

Chances are that the cap is raised to a minimum of 70 million. 75 is also a good possibility but 70 is likely a good conservative bet for these purposes. If all three for some reason got 6 mil as their cap figure for next season, the team would have 64.7 million committed to 19 players with a need for a goalie (Stalock's spot), a 7th d-man (Demers is RFA), and extra forwards depending on who stays or goes (Sheppard and Wingels are RFA and McCarthy is UFA).

That means they'd have about 5 million to spend to re-sign Stalock, Demers, Wingels, and Sheppard if they so choose. Then you have the possibility of two amnesty buyouts with Havlat and Burish. I can see it for Burish but Havlat will depend on how he plays this year. If he's actually healed and productive, it'll be very difficult for DW to let him go since he is his guy. But if he comes back and flops, he'd probably do it. However, he is assuming a large risk with injury obviously and it may take the decision out of his hands.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,232
13,602
Folsom
Thornton and Boyle have both explicitly said that they want to remain here. No smokescreen.

Marleau doesn't even have to say it, considering he's spent his entire career here.

I wouldn't be surprised if they waited until the season is over for Marleau and it wouldn't surprise me if they announced a new deal for Jumbo sometime around the new year. Signing Thornton and Boyle is pretty much up to DW. I don't think it matters to the Thornton bros. or to Boyle's camp when a deal gets done since they've signed during the season before.

It would make sense to give Thornton and Marleau one more multiyear contract. Boyle should be in the bonus contract area. It benefits the team and makes it easier for them to pay him out while making the team better by using the overage that the bonuses allow. They'll have about a mil in bonuses next year and the 7.5% overage that can be used for a 70 mil upper limit is 5.25 million. They have space to hand out another 4 million in bonuses. It would make a lot of sense for both sides to give Dan Boyle a low base salary of around 3 to 4 million, give him easy bonuses that give him another 2 to 3 million, and give him a full NMC for one year until he's ready to leave.
 

5H4RK5

Registered User
May 3, 2007
3,820
10
i say attempt the first ever 3 for 1 special with Hertl as the negotiator. I say sign all 3 to a 10 year contract per at 1 mil per year. j/k
 

FeedingFrenzy

Registered User
Oct 26, 2009
2,125
100
I reject the premise. If we have a good year, I think all 3 will take the big enough cuts to stay.

agree



I also reject the premise. Are you taking into account the cap going up?

Buying out Havlat to keep all three of them is also an option, especially if Boyle shows he isn't done yet and our defense needs him.

agree



Me three. If the team has a good year I see them taking pay cuts. Also, the cap will most likely be going up so between that and whatever slight pay cuts we get on the big three it should cover the rest of the contracts/ raises due.

agree



With how Marleau is playing this year (and I don't think it is a coincidence), why should he take a pay cut? Even Thornton...he's easily worth 6 million. Plus, both he and Marleau might not get the term they had previously, which would mean they could command a higher yearly hit.

Even Boyle, while in my opinion not worth 6.7 million, is a rare enough commodity that he shouldn't get too much of a cap hit.

agree, the posters on here saying Patty and JT taking less than 6mil are ludicrous..This is still JT's team and Patty has done nothing to deserve such a drop in pay.. Been saying for months that JT and Patty will get 6mil for a couple more years, dispite all the know- it-alls saying otherwise..

Kind of like when I suggested we get rid of Havlat and let the rookies(Hertl & Nieto) get their feet wet..:p:
 

Alwalys

Phu m.
May 19, 2010
25,894
6,140
Boyle and it's a no-brainer. He's the oldest and closest to being expendable, even though he is a D-man. But it is my fervent hope that he takes enough of a paycut to finish out his career in SJ.
 

FeedingFrenzy

Registered User
Oct 26, 2009
2,125
100
Chances are that the cap is raised to a minimum of 70 million. 75 is also a good possibility but 70 is likely a good conservative bet for these purposes. If all three for some reason got 6 mil as their cap figure for next season, the team would have 64.7 million committed to 19 players with a need for a goalie (Stalock's spot), a 7th d-man (Demers is RFA), and extra forwards depending on who stays or goes (Sheppard and Wingels are RFA and McCarthy is UFA).

That means they'd have about 5 million to spend to re-sign Stalock, Demers, Wingels, and Sheppard if they so choose. Then you have the possibility of two amnesty buyouts with Havlat and Burish. I can see it for Burish but Havlat will depend on how he plays this year. If he's actually healed and productive, it'll be very difficult for DW to let him go since he is his guy. But if he comes back and flops, he'd probably do it. However, he is assuming a large risk with injury obviously and it may take the decision out of his hands.

Couldn't disagree more.. HAvlat is gone no matter what he does. If DW can move Havlat if/when healthy he will.. Havlat is UNRELIABLE....

Agree with the top half though:naughty:
 

WantonAbandon

Registered User
Oct 16, 2011
5,462
0
Couldn't disagree more.. HAvlat is gone no matter what he does. If DW can move Havlat if/when healthy he will.. Havlat is UNRELIABLE....

Agree with the top half though:naughty:

There is no reason to trade Havlat this season unless there is a catastrophic injury on the blue line or more likely in goal. Even than Havlat has an NMC.

After this season Havlat has only one year left on his contract. Unless Havlat says he wants to leave, I think he will likely play out his contract.
 

SharksFan1

Registered User
Aug 9, 2010
3,738
160
Orange County, CA
My bad I actually forgot about the cap. How much will it be going up to? $70 million right? I'm not gonna lie though as much as I love him and want him to stay, I can see Marleau getting a bit greedy and not taking as big a pay cut as what Boyle and Thornton might take.

Why do you think that? Marleau has his roots the deepest in SJ. I would think he would be the one willing to give the biggest home town discount.
 

SJeasy

Registered User
Feb 3, 2005
12,538
3
San Jose
Food for thought.

As PF said, the cap is going up. It will likely be ~$73mil. The agents know it and it will reset the wage scales. It will be roughly a 15% increase. That means a $5mil player should earn $5.7mil. Undoubtedly, the fans will scream about overpay when the contracts are signed. The response should be, "Judge it relative to the cap as well as historical benchmarks". Previously wage scales increased by tiers. After Iginla and the Tampa guys got their contracts, the top tier fell off. It was not worth it to pay a guy 20% of the cap, no matter how skilled. 20% in today's cap money is $14mil/year. Even franchise guys are no longer getting 20%. The Sharks could have 5 guys at $6mil and it would still only be 40% of the cap. The second tier gained in a big way after the initial cap settled down. IMO, the top tier is going to regain some of their lost momentum after this latest lockout. The GMs know this and I suspect that is why there have been a whole bunch of $6mil contracts to young guys to catch a few franchise players at a lower level (first line) than franchise.

Here are some current benchmarks:

Generational player $10mil
Franchise player $8mil
First line player $6mil

GMs are learning. They know they have to allocate their resources to garner a collection of players that can give them a chance at the cup. The pitfall is when a GM misjudges the player's ability and labels him franchise when he should be first line, etc. Real overpays are a serious competitive disadvantage, paying a second liner first line money. Payings a third liner, second line money and on and on.

As far as the Sharks go, look at the real contribution. Not the media hype. That is what the player is worth. At this point, I am pretty sure that all of the big 3 are in the process of proving their ability and level and I don't think DW will overpay. How can Marleau ask for more than Pavs if Pavs puts up numbers that dwarf Marleau's? How can JT ask for more than Couture if Couture outplays him? How will Boyle stack up to blueliners on other teams in terms of his production? I don't think it is impossible for any of the big 3 to surpass others; I do think it will be a very tall hill to climb this season. If any of them do surpass, I won't have a problem with it being reflected in their next contract.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,133
6,428
juantimer said:
Boyle and it's a no-brainer. He's the oldest and closest to being expendable, even though he is a D-man. But it is my fervent hope that he takes enough of a paycut to finish out his career in SJ.
Agreed.

SharksFan1 said:
Marleau has his roots the deepest in SJ. I would think he would be the one willing to give the biggest home town discount.
Word.

SJeasy said:
How can Marleau ask for more than Pavs if Pavs puts up numbers that dwarf Marleau's?
Pfff.

BrianSmith said:
Bottom line, if we want them, and they want to be here, deals will get done.
The Final Word.
 

sharski

Registered User
Jun 4, 2012
5,585
4,521
it's obvious we have to let jumbo go, he just consistently drags down the other 2 players on his line :sarcasm:
 

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