Line Combos: Which line is the first line?

Which line is the first line?


  • Total voters
    48

LordKOTL

Abuse of Officials
Aug 15, 2014
3,525
768
Pacific NW
Possession stats on the Toews/Saad line were fine. Saad just couldn't ****ing finish. His shot is on par with Kruger's these days.
Posession, okay I can buy that and maybe I took away the wrong part of that.

Defensively? No one was good last year.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
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That's me in the corner
I once thought Hossa's shot was washed ... but then he scored 30 goals. Perhaps Toews and Saad will prove me wrong again. I'll gladly eat crow. However, I'm not holding my breath.

Me neither, but if you're not putting Kane or Schmaltz with Toews, I think DeBrincat and Saad are you next best options.

I think you need the Toews line to be your most complete line considering it's given the hardest task of any forward group. Until recently, it was your most complete line, and that's when it was a very clear-cut first line.

The way Q has that line setup now, it looks more like a supporting scoring line rather than a shutdown that can score against top competition.
 

piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
12,115
3,356
NYC
Posession, okay I can buy that and maybe I took away the wrong part of that.

Defensively? No one was good last year.
Personally, I thought the team lost its edge once the losses piled up. Yes ... I think the team coasted last year. That's neither a compliment nor excuse. It can't happen again otherwise players need to be traded OR the entire staff needs to go.
 
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piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
12,115
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NYC
Me neither, but if you're not putting Kane or Schmaltz with Toews, I think DeBrincat and Saad are you next best options.

I think you need the Toews line to be your most complete line considering it's given the hardest task of any forward group. Until recently, it was your most complete line, and that's when it was a very clear-cut first line.

The way Q has that line setup now, it looks more like a supporting scoring line rather than a shutdown that can score against top competition.
It's funny that only a week ago many of us thought Kahun might not make the team. Semantically, Kahun could be playing on the first line now. LOL.
 
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piteus

Registered User
Dec 20, 2015
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NYC
You think Hayden might do well with Kane and Schmaltz? Big power forward willing to play both ends. Is Hayden fast enough to play with Kane and Schmaltz?
 

Crow

Registered User
May 19, 2014
3,885
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Toews is the first line. Not the best line, but the first line.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
It's funny that only a week ago many of us thought Kahun might not make the team. Semantically, Kahun could be playing on the first line now. LOL.

HAHA right?! It's kind of messed up to be honest, especially when you think about what is expected of the Toews line.

Even Panarin was allowed to start off with Kane's line, given a much more simple task with a lot less pressure.

Again, this makes me feel like Q is changing the expectations of the Toews line. I just can't believe he thinks DeBrincat and Kahun are going to go out there and shut down a Crosby line.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
You think Hayden might do well with Kane and Schmaltz? Big power forward willing to play both ends. Is Hayden fast enough to play with Kane and Schmaltz?

I think he'd do well enough in creating space for them to operate. But I think Toews needs Saad more than Schmaltz and Kane do. So I'm willing to find just about anyone other than Saad to play with Schmaltz and Kane.
 

Rolo

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
2,645
1,324
You think Cat - Toews - Kahun will be our shut down line against the best line? That's scary.
I don't think they can, but thats how Q will deploy them... We don't have prime two-way phenoms Sharp and Hossa flanking his wings anymore.

Obviously he will lean on the Kruger line more this year, then the 4th line we've had the last year BUT Toews line is always the head-to-head 'top line'.
 

JaegerDice

The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
Dec 26, 2014
25,021
9,228
Generally speaking, lines are traditionally numbered based on whoever gives you the best chances at the highest goal differential.

Blackhawks never really did that. They defined lines by roles, and ice time was dictated by whichever role was most necessary. When the Blackhawks were trailing, the 2nd line got a ton of ice time because they were the scoring line. If you were leading for most of the game, then Toews and Kruger saw more time, and if you were on the road, Toews saw more time, vs at home, the Kane line and '3rd' line got more time cause Q could get them out more in favorable matchups, etc.

Whether or not those roles can still hold given the talent they have and, more specifically the TYPE of talent they have (a lot more one-way offensive players than two-way players as in years past), will have to be seen.

I generally refer to the 'top line' as whichever line goes up against the toughest competition and/or provides the best goal differential.
 
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featherhawk

Registered User
Dec 13, 2006
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I think he'd do well enough in creating space for them to operate. But I think Toews needs Saad more than Schmaltz and Kane do. So I'm willing to find just about anyone other than Saad to play with Schmaltz and Kane.

the way Saad is playing nobody needs that guy on his line, as a matter of fact every line is likely dreading having Saad line up with them on line rushes in practice.

Saad has proven last year and thus far this year that he is simply going through the motions and is disinterested much like Seabrook was last year.

perhaps Seabrook should have a chat with Saad.
 

featherhawk

Registered User
Dec 13, 2006
14,227
4,960
You think Hayden might do well with Kane and Schmaltz? Big power forward willing to play both ends. Is Hayden fast enough to play with Kane and Schmaltz?

as a matter of fact I think that trio can be succesfull however I would play Hayden at C and Schmaltz at RW
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
as a matter of fact I think that trio can be succesfull however I would play Hayden at C and Schmaltz at RW

Kane is RW.

If you bump Schmaltz off the center spot now, then you should commit to him never playing center in the future. No reason not to develop him in this season if you think he is a center going forward.
 

featherhawk

Registered User
Dec 13, 2006
14,227
4,960
Kane is RW.

If you bump Schmaltz off the center spot now, then you should commit to him never playing center in the future. No reason not to develop him in this season if you think he is a center going forward.

correct let me fix that and playing schmaltz at Wing now and in future is fine with me.

cat-toews-kahun
schmaltz-hayden/anisimov-kane
saad-hayden/anisimov-sikura
kruger-johnson-kampf
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
correct let me fix that and playing schmaltz at Wing now and in future is fine with me.

cat-toews-kahun
schmaltz-hayden/anisimov-kane
saad-hayden/anisimov-sikura
kruger-johnson-kampf

If Schmaltz is a full time winger, I’d swap him with DeBrincat.

While Schmaltz isn’t an elite two-way guy, I’d argue he’s better suited for a matchup Toews line than DeBrincat is.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
For the second straight game, the Kane line as a whole played more 5v5 ice time than the Toews line.

All of Kane’s line played more 5v5 time than Toews did, and Toews well outpaced his linemates in that measure.

If 5v5 ice time is your measure, Q is giving more to the full Kane line so far.
 

RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
This thread is annoyingly irrelevant.

Some, not all, other posters enjoyed engaging in the debate that it sparked.

My only personal wish is that people would stop calling Kane’s line the second line, because I think that’s not true. I view the first line as the one with your best player that also gets the most 5v5 icetime, not the one that’s used as your matchup line. So I philosophically disagree with half the people here, and those who say Kane is on the “second line”.

Nobody said the Ovechkin line was the Caps’ second line last year (even with Backstrom putting up 71 points on the other line), so why would we say that about Kane’s line?
 

ClydeLee

Registered User
Mar 23, 2012
11,715
5,263
Some, not all, other posters enjoyed engaging in the debate that it sparked.

My only personal wish is that people would stop calling Kane’s line the second line, because I think that’s not true. I view the first line as the one with your best player that also gets the most 5v5 icetime, not the one that’s used as your matchup line. So I philosophically disagree with half the people here, and those who say Kane is on the “second line”.

Nobody said the Ovechkin line was the Caps’ second line last year (even with Backstrom putting up 71 points on the other line), so why would we say that about Kane’s line?
The argument people had been making about kane is the first line was largely based on production all summer in talks about it.
 

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