To try to clarify my point regarding European players...
Take a look at the table below, showing how you ranked the players alltime.
Europeans:
12 Hasek, 15 Mikita, 17 Lidstrom, 23 Jagr, 33 Fetisov, 35 Charlamov, 44 Tretiak, 61 Makarov, 65 Forsberg, 68 Michailov, 69 Kurri. (I may have missed someone.)
Is it realistic that the 11 best players alltime all were Canadian? That the best European skater ever places 14 among skaters? That the best European forward ever - apart from Mikita - is 23 overall?
Consider a couple of things:
1) The Stanley Cup has been around for over 100 years and Europeans only began to challenge Canadian dominance 40 years ago.
2) Even today, approximately 50% of the best players in the world are from Canada. Goaltending is the only NHL position that is disproportionately European and that's an extremely recent development (not all that long ago, goaltending was dominated by French Canadians).
3) The three best Europeans ever - Lidstrom, Jagr, and Hasek were still active when the last lists were put together, and active players tend to be underranked on these things (not to mention Lidstrom added quite a bit to his resume since)
That said, I do agree with you that some non-NHL Euros (especially Makarov!) were underrated on previous lists. I would like to see 1-2 old Czechoslovakian players included next time (probably Holecek, maybe Martinec though probably not).
When actually the best clubs (like CSKA Moscow) and national teams (USSR, CSSR) were about as good the Canadian?
Eh, there really was only a brief period of time when the USSR national team was close to Canada's level (the early-mid 80s). CSKA was probably as good as the best NHL teams in the late 70s through the 80s, but the other Euro club teams weren't nearly as good.
Trottier at 26, and Bossy at 29, were better than all the Europeans outside of NHL?
Is Sakic at 32 better than all Soviets/Russians to ever have played the game of hockey?
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Makarov and Kharlamov should be at about Bossy level, IMO. Fetisov could stand to be bumped up a little too (I've recently become convinced that he was a bit better than Larry Robinson).
Part of the problem is that a lot of us put too much stock into the traditional Russian belief that Kharlamov was the best Russian ever, period. And frankly, he doesn't really stand out compared to guys like Lafleur and Bossy.
The only non-NHL:ers on the list being Charlamov, Tretiak and Michailov, when at least the 1970s and 1960s had so many great players outside of the NHL?
And Vasiliev and Firsov (both on the 2008 list and would definitely be included if we ever finished the last one). That's 5 non-NHL Soviets. And it's really cheesy to count Makarov and Fetisov as NHLers here, when everything that makes them Top 100 worthy was accomplished outside of the NHL.
7 non-NHL Soviets from when the game is over 100 years old? That's really not bad.
Who would you add? The only guys even close to being add-worthy are Maltsev and Larionov of the USSR, and Martinec and Holocek of the CSSR.
Wouldn't it be better to completely skip the guys who never played in the NHL?
At first, we considered doing this last time, then we decided to be more ambitious. If it really is the "top 100 players of all time," you can't just pretend a certain class of players didn't exist.
It's a very Canadian list.
It's a very Canadian sport. Name one top-100 calibre player from hockey's first 70 years who wasn't Canadian, other than the American Frank Brimsek.
It also, in my opinion, seems to rate guys playing pre 1990 (when the ex-USSRs started moving over to the NHL) a bit too high compared to players of the 20 last years.
The list ended up with the original 6 era overrepresented and post-1980 hockey underrepresented. I've noted this before. Doesn't mean we have to throw out the whole project, just make some minor adjustments in our rankings.
Perhaps the quality of the best players of the last 20 years is considered poorer than it was when Canadians dominated the NHL?
Some people think this. I think they're wrong.
I'm sorry if I offend anyone. It's not my intention, and I do respect your knowledge. But it does seem very Canadian. About 59 of 70 players on the list are non-European, including top 11. Despite the best Europeans having showed since at least the early 1970s that they were/are basically as good as the best Canadians.
Again, Europeans have only been a factor for 40/100 years and even then, they are a bit less than half the best players in the world today, and probably lless than that the farther back we go. So the most Europeans who should be on a top 100 list is about 20, and even that assumes they were 50% of the world's best since 1970, which clearly isn't true.
As time goes on, more Europeans are likely to be added. Selanne is a lock to be added to the next top 100 list. Ovechkin is a lock to be added to it eventually (possibly even now). Chara?
Like I said before, the only glaring omission to me is the lack of a single Czechoslovakian player from the 1970s.
