Which group of prospects do you like more?

[Henkka]

The 2011 group had a lot more hype from Red Wings fans. Now everyone is negative and think all our prospects are either busts or NHL tweeners.

It's hilarious. At 2011 team was good so people in here believed that prospects would be good too!

Now team is bad, so must be the prospects also...

No wonder people are so easy to fool in the stock market. Always buying and selling at wrong time.

 

[SirKillalot]

Even though Hicketts isn't drafted and he should be among the 2nd group.

Either way I like the 2nd group because there is more offensive talent there.

Of the first group, only Sproul were expected as an offensive defenseman.

Kindl and Smith could possibly be (not happening, though Smith looks like can claim a #4 d-man spot, possible upside to be a #3) it, but most expected them to tops be a 2nd pair guy.

Marchenko and Ouellet were always expected as defensive defenseman. If really lucky a #2 defensive defenseman, but most likely tops a #4, "surely" a #5/#6.

 

[jkutswings]

Being as honest as I can, and including context...

At this time in 2011, Detroit had just lost its second consecutive 2nd round matchup against San Jose, after letting an extra Cup slip through their fingers against the Penguins in 2009. My feelings about the team were that they clearly still had gas left in the tank, but clearly needed at least another piece to keep the ball rolling.

So, at the time, I had neither heard of, nor had any interest whatsoever in, any of the prospects listed for 2011. And I would've gladly traded any or all of them, plus any necessary additional draft picks, in order to reload with another signing or trade, to keep the "Cup or Bust" mentality.

Fast forward six years...

I've been so frustrated and disappointed by the direction and decisions that this franchise has made, that I'm jaded to the point of probably not being fully rational. I simply want heads to roll, ownership to clean house in the front office, and possibly even for the team to be sold, depending on how Chris Illitch is really going to run things now. So it's basically to the point that I want these new prospects to fail, to hasten a regime change, and hopefully rebuild from the ground up, with decision makers that are AOK with short-term pain for long-term gain.

So I guess I was largely oblivious to the first group, and I'm extremely bitter towards the second group. But I don't know that it answers the larger question behind the comparison.

 

[lomekian]

Being as honest as I can, and including context...

At this time in 2011, Detroit had just lost its second consecutive 2nd round matchup against San Jose, after letting an extra Cup slip through their fingers against the Penguins in 2009. My feelings about the team were that they clearly still had gas left in the tank, but clearly needed at least another piece to keep the ball rolling.

So, at the time, I had neither heard of, nor had any interest whatsoever in, any of the prospects listed for 2011. And I would've gladly traded any or all of them, plus any necessary additional draft picks, in order to reload with another signing or trade, to keep the "Cup or Bust" mentality.

Fast forward six years...

I've been so frustrated and disappointed by the direction and decisions that this franchise has made, that I'm jaded to the point of probably not being fully rational. I simply want heads to roll, ownership to clean house in the front office, and possibly even for the team to be sold, depending on how Chris Illitch is really going to run things now. So it's basically to the point that I want these new prospects to fail, to hasten a regime change, and hopefully rebuild from the ground up, with decision makers that are AOK with short-term pain for long-term gain.

So I guess I was largely oblivious to the first group, and I'm extremely bitter towards the second group. But I don't know that it answers the larger question behind the comparison.

That's nuts. Most of the current lot will not be having a major impact on the lineup over the next 3-4 years anyway, by which team some of the bad contract will be gone and we should have the fruits of more high picks.

Also, surely if this crop comes through fantastically you won't have any reason to be angry anymore?

 

[lomekian]

Moving away from loony tune territory it's a hard comparison to make because we are coloured by hindsight. At that stage, neither Sproul or Oullette had had their breakout seasons, that gave us the kind of expectations that now leave us disappointed.

Despite the efforts of Hronek, I'd say 2011 was more exciting. Always easier to blood young D into a running team with The likes of Lids and peak Kronner. At that point the aforementioned Sproul and Oullette were not that well known, although more so than most of our picks this year. Also by then, it has become clear that Kindl hadn't progressed, and was showing signs of the lack of courage and confidence that have hampered him ever since. On the flip side, there were nice mentions of Jensen and Smith looked a flawed but nailed on NhL-er. I confess, I was most excited about Almqvist. It didn't occur to me that he wouldn't get any biggier given their size and skating were the obvious areas of improvement needed. The previous year he'd put up 34 points in 15 games in Swedish junior, smashing records, and had shown better offensive ability at SHL level than Kronwall at the same point. Plus he was a Hakan pick, which was still seen as the holy grail at that point.

Sadly he never grew and didn't really get any quicker, and despite excelling on that PP at AHL level and having NHL offfensive smarts, he twice got dinged by late dirty hits in the playoffs which exposed his physical al vulnerability. A shame.

 

[Frk It]

Even though Hicketts isn't drafted and he should be among the 2nd group.

Either way I like the 2nd group because there is more offensive talent there.

Of the first group, only Sproul were expected as an offensive defenseman.

Kindl and Smith could possibly be (not happening, though Smith looks like can claim a #4 d-man spot, possible upside to be a #3) it, but most expected them to tops be a 2nd pair guy.

Marchenko and Ouellet were always expected as defensive defenseman. If really lucky a #2 defensive defenseman, but most likely tops a #4, "surely" a #5/#6.

There were definitely a decent about of people who thought Smith had top pairing potential in 2011... aaaand I'm pretty sure I was one of them.

You're using hindsight to talk down they hype that group had. It was there.

 

[jkutswings]

Also, surely if this crop comes through fantastically you won't have any reason to be angry anymore?

Except for poor management wasting 5-10 years, in exchange for getting their heads kicked in by first round opponents, followed by further mismanagement once the streak ended.

But otherwise, no reason to be angry at all.

 

[Winger98]

There were definitely a decent about of people who thought Smith had top pairing potential in 2011... aaaand I'm pretty sure I was one of them.

You're using hindsight to talk down they hype that group had. It was there.

Yeah, it was. Marchenko was getting talk of the steal of the draft, XO was polished and had top pairing potential, and Sproul had all of the tools. Jensen could skate real gud. There was a lot of hope with that group, and Smith.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Yeah, it was. Marchenko was getting talk of the steal of the draft, XO was polished and had top pairing potential, and Sproul had all of the tools. Jensen could skate real gud. There was a lot of hope with that group, and Smith.

I was one of them, and my sleeper was Jensen.

There was a lot of hope with that pool, just like there is a lot of hope now.

In all honesty, there isn't much difference.

The pool now isn't going to out rank another pool because the current pool hasn't done anything.

 

[Mlotek]

Am I the only one who likes Marchenko at the NHL level as a shutdown D-man?

I was so disappointed when he was lost on waivers.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Am I the only one who likes Marchenko at the NHL level as a shutdown D-man?

I was so disappointed when he was lost on waivers.

He's ok. He can play bottom pairing with some help on the other partner, but he won't carry a pairing.

Not a big loss.

 

[Henkka]

Am I the only one who likes Marchenko at the NHL level as a shutdown D-man?

I was so disappointed when he was lost on waivers.

Dunno. Even Babcock wasn't using him regularily at TOR, so maybe he is done.

 

[muchbetterthanlada]

Am I the only one who likes Marchenko at the NHL level as a shutdown D-man?

I was so disappointed when he was lost on waivers.

I'm right there with you.
Anything XO can do Marchy can do better.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Assuming the question is "at the time" I think it's easily 2011. We thought we were in great shape after that D heavy draft. Could add Jensen and Almquist to that list as well.

The way people talked about Smith, the Wings would be set for the next decade. Also, most turned out to be NHLers. Not good NHLers, but NHLers all the same.

We will have to see how it pans out I guess. For the record, I'm hesitant with our new D prospects. People seem to have unrealistic expectations. Ryan Sproul had similar numbers as VS and Hronek in the O, and much more physical tools, and will likely be out of the league in 3 years.

Of the first group, only Sproul were expected as an offensive defenseman.

Kindl and Smith could possibly be (not happening, though Smith looks like can claim a #4 d-man spot, possible upside to be a #3) it, but most expected them to tops be a 2nd pair guy.

Objectively untrue. Smith was the most hyped D prospect we had since Kronwall. Even if it had something to do with Henkka said (People having spoiled expectations due to the past), the hype was real, and only further built in his first call-up, where he looked his best ever on the Wings. Expectations have been tempered significantly since Wings fans seem to have realized our scouting staff is not omniscient

Am I the only one who likes Marchenko at the NHL level as a shutdown D-man?

I was so disappointed when he was lost on waivers.

I liked him as a player, and was upset we lost him, but in the end it's superfluous. The Wings have probably 10 people in their system right now who could play in the NHL. The only problem is, few of them will ever be more than a 5-6th.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

The way people talked about Smith, the Wings would be set for the next decade. Also, most turned out to be NHLers. Not good NHLers, but NHLers all the same.

We will have to see how it pans out I guess. For the record, I'm hesitant with our new D prospects. People seem to have unrealistic expectations. Ryan Sproul had similar numbers as VS and Hronek in the O, and much more physical tools, and will likely be out of the league in 3 years.



Objectively untrue. Smith was the most hyped D prospect we had since Kronwall. Even if it had something to do with Henkka said (People having spoiled expectations due to the past), the hype was real, and only further built in his first call-up, where he looked his best ever on the Wings. Expectations have been tempered significantly since Wings fans seem to have realized our scouting staff is not omniscient



I liked him as a player, and was upset we lost him, but in the end it's superfluous. The Wings have probably 10 people in their system right now who could play in the NHL. The only problem is, few of them will ever be more than a 5-6th.

Sproul never played in a tournament apparentaly. So he wasn't good enough to make the team or injuries so that's injury prone questions and his d was lackluster everywhere he went. Hronek can play d

 

[Konnan511]

That first group was insane by how much we liked them. Sproul won CHL awards as did XO (I think), AA was racking up the points and Smith/Jensen were winning CCHA awards as well.

The second group are still unknowns with out a lot of awards to speak of. I'm hoping the second group turns out much better, though

 

[SirKillalot]

There were definitely a decent about of people who thought Smith had top pairing potential in 2011... aaaand I'm pretty sure I was one of them.

You're using hindsight to talk down they hype that group had. It was there.

I remember there was some hype that he had the potential to be a top pair guy, but it wasn't anywhere near an expectation that he did. Maybe there were a lot more talk about it in here that I didn't see, because I didn't pay that much about this at the time.

I never felt the hype were the same or more than what Fischer had in his day. To me the only reason Smith seems to stick in the NHL is because he's got physicality to his game compared to Kindl. Both are not among the smartest hockey IQ guys.

I never had any believe that AA would make it. I did however think that Marchenko and Ouellet would claim a spot on different pairs and maybe Sproul if he developed more. However it seemed like Jensen became the preferred guy among the three.

One guy I'm really disappointed with is free agent signing DeKeyser. I thought he would have more of an impact as a player, and I feel he needs a solid kick in the butt.