Which GM Do You Take Today? Sather, Uncle Lou or Garth Snow?

[I Call BS]

So what if they were acquired thru trades. Being savvy with trades is a critical factor in being a successful GM. Is it Not? He had to give up quality to get quality. Callahan, Dubinsky, Anisimov were home grown rangers that were traded to get talent back in return. Sather has balls. The McDonagh trade was a steal and Sather should get credit for it just like he would get murdered if he was on the other end of the trade.

...And BTW I think that Lou has had an outstanding tenure as devils GM the last 20 years with 3 cups. I also agree that losing Kovalchuck and Parise would hurt any GM for sure. I just feel that Sather gets a lot of crap from people like yourself who don't give him enough credit for putting a quality product on the ice.

Right. Exactly. Savvy trading. But I feel he's not as savvy as you are making him out to be.

You actually think he traded with Montreal to grab McDonagh and that was the mater plan? Or was it primarily to get rid of his bad fee agent signing/bad contact of Scott Gomez?

Come on be truthful. I don't find anything savvy in that at all. He asked for McDonagh as a throw in & Gainey caved. Unless of course you believe the rumors that Gainey was away due to personal reasons and would not have OK'd it.

Sure give him credit for asking for McDonagh, but we're not talking Brett Hull for Rob Ramage here. Not yet at least.

Choose your sides: unloading his own bad contract was the primary reason for the trade

vs.

“oh, by the way, can we have your prospect Ryan McDonagh too, in addition to Chris Higgins?â€

And he does have balls. Case in point: the Ryan Callahan trade that cost the teams two first rounders. It was the right move to make IMHO. He gambled and lost. But he tried. Very bold move.

And as far as giving him “crapâ€, I feel I gave a very fair assessment of his supposed impact in Edmonton, his bizarre draft record here in NY, especially with goalies, his bad contracts here and his stroke of luck with players the he really had no idea would have such an impact with the current team.

He's become quite competent over the last 5+ years, but I wouldn't elevate him to a higher status. He would have to win a Championship here. That's fair.

Clarkson was not valuable at all to New Jersey. It would be like the Rangers losing Glass. Letting him walk was one of the smart things Lou did in recent memory

Not sure what the heck you're talking about because for a three season period, he was the third leading goal scorer on the team with some grit, heart and toughness, who would fight on occasion. He was undrafted and overachieved. He was very popular with teammates and fans alike. He was valuable actually. But not valuable enough for a 7 year contract with a $5.2 million cap hit.

They are all nice but I am going to stick with Lombardi.
Hands down.

Lombardi is awesome. He is considered a protege to Lamoriello. Those goes love & respect each other. It's public knowledge. Hey, it's not a insult.

 

[bigbuffalo313]

Not sure what the heck you're talking about because for a three season period, he was the third leading goal scorer on the team with some grit, heart and toughness, who would fight on occasion. He was undrafted and overachieved. He was very popular with teammates and fans alike. He was valuable actually. But not valuable enough for a 7 year contract with a $5.2 million cap hit.

He was a 20-30 point player. He was not that important. There is a reason Devils fans called him "Clarktard"

 

[I Call BS]

He was a 20-30 point player. He was not that important. There is a reason Devils fans called him "Clarktard"

That was because of his God-awful skating & style.

You clearly missed the point (most likely on purpose) that he was the THIRD leading goal scorer on the team for a 3 year period.

Maybe that's not important to you personally, but that surely was important to the team.

I don't know where you're going with this, but hey, all the power to you.

 

[Blueblood9]

Right. Exactly. Savvy trading. But I feel he's not as savvy as you are making him out to be.

You actually think he traded with Montreal to grab McDonagh and that was the mater plan? Or was it primarily to get rid of his bad fee agent signing/bad contact of Scott Gomez?

Come on be truthful. I don't find anything savvy in that at all. He asked for McDonagh as a throw in & Gainey caved. Unless of course you believe the rumors that Gainey was away due to personal reasons and would not have OK'd it.

Sure give him credit for asking for McDonagh, but we're not talking Brett Hull for Rob Ramage here. Not yet at least.

Choose your sides: unloading his own bad contract was the primary reason for the trade

vs.

“oh, by the way, can we have your prospect Ryan McDonagh too, in addition to Chris Higgins?â€

And he does have balls. Case in point: the Ryan Callahan trade that cost the teams two first rounders. It was the right move to make IMHO. He gambled and lost. But he tried. Very bold move.

And as far as giving him “crapâ€, I feel I gave a very fair assessment of his supposed impact in Edmonton, his bizarre draft record here in NY, especially with goalies, his bad contracts here and his stroke of luck with players the he really had no idea would have such an impact with the current team.

He's become quite competent over the last 5+ years, but I wouldn't elevate him to a higher status. He would have to win a Championship here. That's fair.

take the homer glasses of for a minute. your lips are to far glued to Lamo's *** that is affecting your judgement.

No matter how you look at it Slats pulled one of the biggest trade heists in the history of any sport. He got McD. By many accounts a top 10 dman in the nhl for a cap dump. Were you in the room to know who he was going after in that trade? Maybe the goal was to get McD and higgins was the throw in?

What about some of the other trades hes pulled. The nash trade looks like a wash especially this yr with Nash looking as good as he has in a while. The Gaby trade pulled in our 1/2c depending on what line is 1st that given night who btw has been a playoff warrior and the 6d of a scf team. You think he called Poile last yr and was like i wanna trade MdZ give me a 7th and well call it even and Poile said you know what we got a scrub whos named after an actor take him instead and sather was like sure i liked "a fish called wanda" ill take him.

But then again he must of had a horseshoe up his ass to sign Girardi, Zucc, take Stralman off the scrapheap, find steals in the draft like Buch, and Duclair. But oh you blame him for passing him up twice. Funny enough all 29 other GM's did as well including Lou.

As for Snow as much as i despise the Isles i absolutely love what hes doing on the Isle. Great drafts and those 2 trades for Leddy and boychuk were great moves. JT is my favorite player not in a ranger sweater. He has had missteps but so has Lou and Slats.

Lou has put up a F line that is aged and slowing with a good D pipe line and a very good goalie but he seems to forget you need goals to win in this league.

 

[bigbuffalo313]

That was because of his God-awful skating & style.

You clearly missed the point (most likely on purpose) that he was the THIRD leading goal scorer on the team for a 3 year period.

Maybe that's not important to you personally, but that surely was important to the team.

I don't know where you're going with this, but hey, all the power to you.

If Clarkson is the third leading scorer on a team, there are far worse problems than losing other players

 

[Oak]

What I read:

"All the good moves were by Jeff Gorton, all the bad moves are by Sather, because I don't like Sather".

His track record shows it though. After any given point in time if someone keeps doing stupid things you have to expect stupid.

Considering how much time you spend on hfboards I'm pretty sure you've read about most of our recent good trades being done by Gorton, so what is the complaining about?

 

[I Call BS]

take the homer glasses of for a minute. your lips are to far glued to Lamo's *** that is affecting your judgement.

No matter how you look at it Slats pulled one of the biggest trade heists in the history of any sport. He got McD. By many accounts a top 10 dman in the nhl for a cap dump. Were you in the room to know who he was going after in that trade? Maybe the goal was to get McD and higgins was the throw in?

What about some of the other trades hes pulled. The nash trade looks like a wash especially this yr with Nash looking as good as he has in a while. The Gaby trade pulled in our 1/2c depending on what line is 1st that given night who btw has been a playoff warrior and the 6d of a scf team. You think he called Poile last yr and was like i wanna trade MdZ give me a 7th and well call it even and Poile said you know what we got a scrub whos named after an actor take him instead and sather was like sure i liked "a fish called wanda" ill take him.

But then again he must of had a horseshoe up his ass to sign Girardi, Zucc, take Stralman off the scrapheap, find steals in the draft like Buch, and Duclair. But oh you blame him for passing him up twice. Funny enough all 29 other GM's did as well including Lou.

As for Snow as much as i despise the Isles i absolutely love what hes doing on the Isle. Great drafts and those 2 trades for Leddy and boychuk were great moves. JT is my favorite player not in a ranger sweater. He has had missteps but so has Lou and Slats.

Lou has put up a F line that is aged and slowing with a good D pipe line and a very good goalie but he seems to forget you need goals to win in this league.

Nah. Um, like the "goal" was to unload a bad contract in one Scott Gomez.

He didn't "get" McD. Montreal gave him McD. That's kind of a fair way of looking at it.

I'll tell you what, if you think he orchestrated the entire thing as some sort of elaborate & deliberate plan to target & grab Montreal's prospect in Ryan McDonagh, the your lips are to far glued to Slats *** that is affecting your judgement.

Also not sure I would consider Duclair a "steal" either. Did I miss something from him that would warrant him being a steal?

If Clarkson is the third leading scorer on a team, there are far worse problems than losing other players

When he overachieved and scored 30 that year, a year where he was absolutely incredible, there really weren't far worse problems. He was a big part of the team in that short time frame despite his shortcomings. That's what earned him the ridiculous long and extemely lucrative contract he has now. Still don't know where you're going with this.

 

[I Call BS]

And I wish NYR fans would be more consistent in their opinion of Sather in regards to Rick Nash.

As has been pointed out in several simultaneous threads, prior to just 10 weeks ago, NYR fans were all over Slats for getting him in the first place and were complaining about the loss of depth & grit that went the other way in the trade that got him to NY.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Sather for sure. Makes great trades, and with respect to the wild FA signings I think he might be under some pressure to get the big names to NY. Just a thought.

 

[DonKingKong]

Cool. Good thing you came into a Lou vs Garth vs Sather thread to post that.

I do agree Garth has done more with less, but he hasn't had the successes of Lou/Sather. I do think Garth has been on the upswing while the other have been on the downswing.

Right, your welcome. Happy I could point you in the right direction.

Of course the obvious answer to the second tier GM argument is (which doesn't include Lou, he is still one of the all time best and currently doing an excellent job) would be if this were the 80's it would be Sather and I guess that leaves Garth as the best of the rest.

So in order.

1st Lou (and a couple of others tie)




2nd (best of the rest) Garth









3rd Slats

 

[CanadienShark]

Eh, all have their positives, all have their warts. I'm indifferent.

 

[PAZ]

Lou easily had the best career, but I think I have to go with Sathers.

Snow seems decent right now, but the Islanders were a bottom feeder for too long with him at the helm for me to consider him.

 

[Blueblood9]

Nah. Um, like the "goal" was to unload a bad contract in one Scott Gomez.

He didn't "get" McD. Montreal gave him McD. That's kind of a fair way of looking at it.

I'll tell you what, if you think he orchestrated the entire thing as some sort of elaborate & deliberate plan to target & grab Montreal's prospect in Ryan McDonagh, the your lips are to far glued to Slats *** that is affecting your judgement.

Also not sure I would consider Duclair a "steal" either. Did I miss something from him that would warrant him being a steal?

From what i read about Duclair is that he was tabbed as a 1st rounder but due to Injuries and some locker room issues with the Vets on the team his value dropped. He always had the 1st round talent and was shown last season when he had 100 pnts in the QJMHL but youll prob tell me oh its only juniors its not a big deal.

As for the McD trade yes the goal was to unload the contract but how do you know sather didnt go in asking for McD for the dump.

My lips are no where near his ass. Ive screamed against some of his decisions mostly Signings. I also think Gorton should be GM now and slats should take the President position and smoke his cigar in peace.

 

[jniklast]

So the Rangers two playoff runs were flukes, but the Isles 34 games start (which put them a mighty 6 points ahead of the Rangers with two more games played) is legit and makes Snow the best GM?

It's also a lot easier to acquire top end talent by sucking for years, than building a contender while always being competitive.

Sure, being able to fix a couple of problems with money (Redden, Richards) is nice, but it's even better to always pick in the top half of the draft when in the same time the Rangers had exactly two top-15 picks (McIlrath at 10 and JT Miller at 15). And it's not like Snow has no money for buyouts, see DiPietro.

The current Ranger team has no free agent signings as core or key players (unless you count Dan Boyle as core) except for undrafted free agent signings Girardi and Zuccarello. So this Rangers team is not built on money.

 

[egelband]

I think all three prove that time is the best friend of any manager.

 

[bigbuffalo313]

When he overachieved and scored 30 that year, a year where he was absolutely incredible, there really weren't far worse problems. He was a big part of the team in that short time frame despite his shortcomings. That's what earned him the ridiculous long and extemely lucrative contract he has now. Still don't know where you're going with this.

He hit 40 points once in his career. Him leaving was not the reason the Devils are now bad.

Of course the obvious answer to the second tier GM argument is (which doesn't include Lou, he is still one of the all time best and currently doing an excellent job) would be if this were the 80's it would be Sather and I guess that leaves Garth as the best of the rest.

So in order.

1st Lou (and a couple of others tie)




2nd (best of the rest) Garth









3rd Slats

How on Earth has Lou done even a half decent job in recent memory? The Clowe and Kovalchuk contracts, not firing Deboer, Henrique and Cammalleri contracts

 

[I Call BS]

He hit 40 points once in his career. Him leaving was not the reason the Devils are now bad.



How on Earth has Lou done even a half decent job in recent memory? The Clowe and Kovalchuk contracts, not firing Deboer, Henrique and Cammalleri contracts

I didn't say HIM leaving the Devils was the reason they are now bad.

That was part of it. You know that.

Either you didn't read the posts carefully or you are being purposely disingenuous.

NJD fans loved Kovalchuk & love Cammalleri.

Not sure why you brought up Henrique.

Clowe was a risk. The whole hockey world knew that.

And DeBoer still can be fired.

I already mentioned in a previous post that Kovalchuk's no movement clause would've ended just two seasons from now. He could've been traded if need be.

Besides, with each CBA there are always contract loopholes, allotted buyout periods, etc.

And I can guarantee you that as time passes, many NJD fans wish Kovalchuk was still here, good contract, bad contract or not.

And to be honest with you, with your last post, all you've really down is kind of show how devasting losing Parise, Kovalchuk and even Clarkson was & how it clearly affected the team and how they had to scramble at last minute to fill in the those holes.

Thanks, that's what I've been saying. That's the point.

 

[bigbuffalo313]

Kovalchuk leaving screwed New Jersey. Parise leaving Screwed New Jersey. Clarkson leaving is about the equivalent of Boyle leaving the Rangers last year. Sure he helped us but he was replaceable. Also I brought up those contracts because the other poster said that Lou was still doing a great job.

 

[I Call BS]

Kovalchuk leaving screwed New Jersey. Parise leaving Screwed New Jersey. Clarkson leaving is about the equivalent of Boyle leaving the Rangers last year. Sure he helped us but he was replaceable. Also I brought up those contracts because the other poster said that Lou was still doing a great job.

As sad as it is to say, Clarkson has not been replaced. For what was out there & what was available, it wasn't even close. That's the point I've tried to make like 1 billion times already.

 

[bigbuffalo313]

As sad as it is to say, Clarkson has not been replaced. For what was out there & what was available, it wasn't even close. That's the point I've tried to make like 1 billion times already.

And that is why Lou shouldn't be held so high right now. He has not been good recently and not replacing players is part of the reason

 

[herashak]

Sather, Lou close second

 

[Trottier]

At least in modern times (read: not in his legendary Oilers days), Glen Sather is a much better GM in the capped NHL than when handed an open checkbook. Which is ironic.

On the other hand, Lou Lamoriello is much less adept in a capped NHL. A combination of discipline/stubbornness (and perhaps smarts) in not over-paying his own UFAs, as well as the inability to backfill via drafting/development the huge numbers of players who have left the organization has finally caught up to him and his squad. As has been mentioned by others, the Devils circa 2014 are NYR circa 2001. Retreads and mercenaries, with several but far too few younger talents mixed in. That said, anyone calling another person senile is a contemptible prejudice *******.

As for Garth Snow, the verdict is still out. He has collected a lot of good young talent. It must be noted, however, that that was achieved primarily through many years of failure, which should not be forgotten. Now (and the question is about the present), that talent and patience seems to be turning the corner. If/when the team wins anything of note, he gets the nod.

Until then, the GM of last spring's SC Finalist does. And the other HOF GM who's team was there as recent as 2012 is second. "Winning" October-December, as Snow's Islanders have, merits nothing yet for the GM, except perhaps a PowerPoll. Perspective.