Which GM Do You Take Today? Sather, Uncle Lou or Garth Snow?

RangersOwnNewYork*

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All 3 GM's have done some good things and an argument could be made for all 3 but Sather is my pick. You build a team in 3 ways, drafting, FA signings, and trades, but ultimately its all about results on the ice. Sather has had the most consistently successful team in the metro area. People like to bash some of his FA signings and 1st round draft picks which do hold some merit but overall he has done a lot of good things in the salary cap era. The MacD trade, Brassard and Klein trades, even Nash and MSL trades, signing guys like Giradi, Zucc, Hayes, Pouliot, Stralman, D. Moore over the years, drafting potential stars like Duclaire and Buchnevich in the 3rd round, etc... 6 playoff series wins in the last 3 years including a ECF and SCF says it all really.
 

I Call BS

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Dec 21, 2014
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Right now? A fairer comparison would be to judge the 3 given the exact set of circumstances:

NYI/Snow: Tavares, Okposo & Clutterbuck get homesick and/or leave the team for much more money

NYR/Sather: Lundqvist, McDonagh & Stepan get homesick and /or leave the team much more money

That's fair.



You can tweak the third players listed above, but that would put Snow & Sather on a level & situation to where Lou is right now, in losing Parise, Kovalchuk & Clarkson, who wanted to go home, not to mention winning a huge amount of $$$ payday in doing so.

Then you can watch the NYR & NYI try to scrape up talent out of nowhere and try to sign anyone available in a feeble attempt to replace the gaping holes created by the departure of 3 key players, some of which in the NJD scenario, were impressive first-liners with HHOF talent, skill, leadership qualities, or overachievers with some grit and who can sometimes fight as well. Oh, and some goals scored among them all too.

Then IMHO, you can more carefully and accurately judge Snow, Sather & Lamoriello as contemporaries.



Snow would have to win a Championship to be put on the same level of Lamoriello.



And for the people who say “the game has passed Lou by†clearly don't realize that the 2012 team that got to within 60 minutes of forcing a Game 7 of the 2012 SCF was built in the post 2004-2005 lockout NHL, an era where Lou was supposed to fail in, where he rebuilt on the fly and assembled a high-quality, Championship-caliber team with many key players acquired in this same era. I never understood that criticism of Lou.

This was smack dab in the middle of an era where the NJD drafted no higher than #20 in a period of 15 out of 17 years. The only reason it wasn't 16 out of 17 years was because Lou won a Scott Stevens/St. Louis Blues tampering case from 1994 and had a 5 year window to swap first round draft picks with them, which he exercised the right to do so in 2003, where they should have picked at #30 due to winning the SC, and then swapped and moved up to select Parise at #17

And they drafted a perfectly capable Travis Zajac & Adam Henrique, who although not superstars, have proven themselves to be first line players when given the right linemates. Not to mention their best defenseman Andy Greene was an undrafted gem of a find.

NJD fans say that he has rebuilt the defense as well. Not to mention, found a very capable replacement to Brodeur and a backup in Kinkaid that is lately giving Schneider a run for his money. Might be a new goalie controversy in NJ folks. Stay tuned.




As for Slats, other than 1 or 2 NYR fans who fairly voiced there displeasure with him and the one who posted revisionist history regarding him, he is a clearly a distant third.

For Icanada who said “Sather was the GM/coach and architect behind the oilers of the 80s..â€, you are totally mistaken or clearly don't remember what happened. It's public knowledge that he had nothing to do with Gretzky and Coffey. That was all on their owner, Peter Pocklington, who wanted to stick it to the NHL and acquire the prized Gretzky, as the Oilers were in the competing WHL and yet to be absorbed by the NHL. And he was still coach and not yet GM when Messier was drafted as well. He might be a good head coach, but to call him an “architect†of that dynasty era is a misnomer.

If Sather is better than Snow or Lamoriello, why did he wait so long to draft Lundqvist in the later rounds, risking another team selecting him, and then proceeded to use 2 Top 10 draft picks on goalies Dan Blackburn #10 and Al Montoya #6?

For the most part, the NYR are a team that is still primarily a team of free agents, anchored by an exceptional HHOF goalie and anchored by a defense that is led by a player they didn't even draft and are extremely luck to have lol.

So for the most part, I'm not sure how some of you can have Sather ahead of Snow & Lamoriello.
 

Fear the Wushu

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Dec 4, 2013
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Snow and Sather.

The Kovalchuk deal was even worse than DiPietro. Lou was very fortunate that Ilya "retired."

Snow has not proved anything until the Islanders make the ECF or SC. Along with Edmonton, they have been the worst franchises in the NHL for a long time. What exactly has Snow done recently? If I recall the Devils made the SC not so long ago,
 

Glen Sathers Cigar

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Feb 4, 2013
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I personally thought the 2012 team was better than last years team. When last years team made the SCF, it felt as if they had luck on their side. 7 times out of 10, I don't think the Rangers make it out alive versus the Penguins in a playoff series. 7 times out of 10, I don't think Montreal knocks out last years Bruins. It was a weird playoffs in the East, some really good teams really blew it and other teams, like the Habs and the Rangers, capitalized. The 2012 team was legitimately scary to me, they had the perfect mix of players who all knew their role and had undeniable chemistry and work ethic that entire season. Just like with the Rangers last year, 7 times out of 10 I don't think the Devils would have beaten the Rangers team from that year, that was a flukey series IMO.

That's just my two cents and I think it's a pretty fair observation that a lot of people had concerning those two Ranger squads and their respective playoff runs. That 2012 Ranger team had me scared, and I still think the Rick Nash trade was short sighted and impulsive because that 2012 squad had some awesome chemistry and a bunch of players who had a role and played it well. While the Rangers are still a very good team, it feels like Sather has gone back to the era of "throw UFA crap at a wall and hope it sticks", except fortunately he still has some homegrown talent laying around.

I feel 100% the opposite. That 2012 team made it's way on Gaborik scoring and Lundqvist having an unreal season. They'd try and score two goals and then collapse all game holding on by the skin of their teeth. There's a reason teams are moving away from this type of system.

2014 was a much stronger roster and played better as a team and made it to the SCF as a result. I believe they were top 5 in posession stats last year, too.
 

RangersOwnNewYork*

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Right now? A fairer comparison would be to judge the 3 given the exact set of circumstances:

NYI/Snow: Tavares, Okposo & Clutterbuck get homesick and/or leave the team for much more money

NYR/Sather: Lundqvist, McDonagh & Stepan get homesick and /or leave the team much more money

That's fair.



You can tweak the third players listed above, but that would put Snow & Sather on a level & situation to where Lou is right now, in losing Parise, Kovalchuk & Clarkson, who wanted to go home, not to mention winning a huge amount of $$$ payday in doing so.

Then you can watch the NYR & NYI try to scrape up talent out of nowhere and try to sign anyone available in a feeble attempt to replace the gaping holes created by the departure of 3 key players, some of which in the NJD scenario, were impressive first-liners with HHOF talent, skill, leadership qualities, or overachievers with some grit and who can sometimes fight as well. Oh, and some goals scored among them all too.

Then IMHO, you can more carefully and accurately judge Snow, Sather & Lamoriello as contemporaries.



Snow would have to win a Championship to be put on the same level of Lamoriello.



And for the people who say “the game has passed Lou by” clearly don't realize that the 2012 team that got to within 60 minutes of forcing a Game 7 of the 2012 SCF was built in the post 2004-2005 lockout NHL, an era where Lou was supposed to fail in, where he rebuilt on the fly and assembled a high-quality, Championship-caliber team with many key players acquired in this same era. I never understood that criticism of Lou.

This was smack dab in the middle of an era where the NJD drafted no higher than #20 in a period of 15 out of 17 years. The only reason it wasn't 16 out of 17 years was because Lou won a Scott Stevens/St. Louis Blues tampering case from 1994 and had a 5 year window to swap first round draft picks with them, which he exercised the right to do so in 2003, where they should have picked at #30 due to winning the SC, and then swapped and moved up to select Parise at #17

And they drafted a perfectly capable Travis Zajac & Adam Henrique, who although not superstars, have proven themselves to be first line players when given the right linemates. Not to mention their best defenseman Andy Greene was an undrafted gem of a find.

NJD fans say that he has rebuilt the defense as well. Not to mention, found a very capable replacement to Brodeur and a backup in Kinkaid that is lately giving Schneider a run for his money. Might be a new goalie controversy in NJ folks. Stay tuned.




As for Slats, other than 1 or 2 NYR fans who fairly voiced there displeasure with him and the one who posted revisionist history regarding him, he is a clearly a distant third.

For Icanada who said “Sather was the GM/coach and architect behind the oilers of the 80s..”, you are totally mistaken or clearly don't remember what happened. It's public knowledge that he had nothing to do with Gretzky and Coffey. That was all on their owner, Peter Pocklington, who wanted to stick it to the NHL and acquire the prized Gretzky, as the Oilers were in the competing WHL and yet to be absorbed by the NHL. And he was still coach and not yet GM when Messier was drafted as well. He might be a good head coach, but to call him an “architect” of that dynasty era is a misnomer.

If Sather is better than Snow or Lamoriello, why did he wait so long to draft Lundqvist in the later rounds, risking another team selecting him, and then proceeded to use 2 Top 10 draft picks on goalies Dan Blackburn #10 and Al Montoya #6?

For the most part, the NYR are a team that is still primarily a team of free agents, anchored by an exceptional HHOF goalie and anchored by a defense that is led by a player they didn't even draft and are extremely luck to have lol.

So for the most part, I'm not sure how some of you can have Sather ahead of Snow & Lamoriello.


The rangers are NOT a team primarily of free agents. Look at their roster before you post such nonsense.

Draft picks -, Lundqvist, Stepan, Stall, JT Miller, Fast, Hagelin, Krieder
Traded for - Nash, Brassard, St. Louis, McDonagh, Klein, J. Moore
Free agents - Dan Boyle, Stempniak, D. Moore, Kevin Hayes, Glass,

Plus he signed undrafted guys like Girardi and Zucc who have been solid contributors to the team. He also hired one of the best coaches in the NHL IMO.

Now tell me again how the rangers are primarily a collection of free agents.
 

Scrobble

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If Sather is better than Snow or Lamoriello, why did he wait so long to draft Lundqvist in the later rounds, risking another team selecting him, and then proceeded to use 2 Top 10 draft picks on goalies Dan Blackburn #10 and Al Montoya #6?
.

I know this is only one point of a long post but I have to say that its not really fair to judge GM's drafting based on goalies. They are a total crap shoot to draft, borderline impossible to know which ones are gonna become good NHLers. Are all the other GMs also **** for not drafting Lundqvist? He might not have been drafted at all if not for the Rangers so maybe Sather had the balls to wait on him and draft him late.
 

I Call BS

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Dec 21, 2014
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...and looking at the NJD roster and scoring this year and last, I'd like you to come up with a conclusion as to why Lou is "fortunate" that Kovalchuk retired.

Especially since it was only a $6.6 cap hit, with a No Movement Clause that would have ended just 2 years from this coming July, with a year to move him if needed, before the No Trade Clause period that would have kicked in July 2018.

And as we have seen now with new CBAs, there are always ways to void, hide, buyout, etc. player contracts.

With all the above, never understood what was wrong with his contract.

Most NJD fans will honestly tell you that they wish he was still on the team. I can guarantee you that. And if they refer to his supposed bad contract, that's just trying to paint a rosy picture on a departure of a player that has devastated the team.

I can guarantee that Lou is not fortunate that he reitred lol
 

I Call BS

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Dec 21, 2014
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The rangers are NOT a team primarily of free agents. Look at their roster before you post such nonsense.

Draft picks -, Lundqvist, Stepan, Stall, JT Miller, Fast, Hagelin, Krieder
Traded for - Nash, Brassard, St. Louis, McDonagh, Klein, J. Moore
Free agents - Dan Boyle, Stempniak, D. Moore, Kevin Hayes, Glass,

Plus he signed undrafted guys like Girardi and Zucc who have been solid contributors to the team. He also hired one of the best coaches in the NHL IMO.

Now tell me again how the rangers are primarily a collection of free agents.

I stand corrected. Should have said "trades". You pointed it out.

Your best players at Forward were acquired through trades. So was you best defenseman. But that was a mistake on Montreal's part, not a genius of Sather.

Sorry, I do not give him credit for that as some bold, risky move to acquire a player.
 

SeidoN

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as a Devils fan, Lou has been dissapointing lately. people bring up how we got to the Finals in 12, but we also came 1 game 7 OT goal away from losing in round 1 to the Panthers
 

I Call BS

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I know this is only one point of a long post but I have to say that its not really fair to judge GM's drafting based on goalies. They are a total crap shoot to draft, borderline impossible to know which ones are gonna become good NHLers. Are all the other GMs also **** for not drafting Lundqvist? He might not have been drafted at all if not for the Rangers so maybe Sather had the balls to wait on him and draft him late.

True and not true. If you are going to compare & contrast 3 GMs, as the point of this thread, you have to look at their entire body of work. So actually, I would say that is "fair", since drafting (pro/con) are used to judge Snow & Lamoriello.

You can't pick and choose scenarios. The goalie situation above with Sather and his drafting is totally bizarre and unprecedented if you ask me.

I really think he got lucky with all his best players IMHO. Some NYR have alluded to that or trashed him in this thread save for a few.

His drafting has been absolutely mediocre and his free agent signings have been absolutely atrocious for the most part.

Again, he does not belong in the same class as Lou Lamoriello. As I posted earlier, if Lundqvist, McDonagh and any key 3rd player walked away from the team due to homesickness, that would put him to where Lou Lamoriello is now. That's a very fair comparison.

He can't really be behind Snow for body of work, but Sather's extreme luckiness makes up for his mediorce drafting and horrendous FA contracts. He is still for the most part, a very average GM. Sorry.
 

I Call BS

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Dec 21, 2014
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as a Devils fan, Lou has been dissapointing lately. people bring up how we got to the Finals in 12, but we also came 1 game 7 OT goal away from losing in round 1 to the Panthers

Yeah? And? So?

They did win.

So if they went on to win the Championship over L.A. it would have been invalidated due to going to OT in Game 7 of Round 1 against Florida?

Makes absolutely no sense. That's as bottom of the barrel of an excuse as you can get.
 

SeidoN

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So if they went on to win the Championship over L.A. it would have been invalidated due to going to OT in Game 7 of Round 1 against Florida?

.

well.... if Florida had scored kinda... yeah.

how would NJs recent history look with just 1 goal the other way? utter trash. I dont think 2012 is a big a saving grace for Lou as people make out
 

bigbuffalo313

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Apr 28, 2012
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Right now? A fairer comparison would be to judge the 3 given the exact set of circumstances:

NYI/Snow: Tavares, Okposo & Clutterbuck get homesick and/or leave the team for much more money

NYR/Sather: Lundqvist, McDonagh & Stepan get homesick and /or leave the team much more money

That's fair.



You can tweak the third players listed above, but that would put Snow & Sather on a level & situation to where Lou is right now, in losing Parise, Kovalchuk & Clarkson, who wanted to go home, not to mention winning a huge amount of $$$ payday in doing so.

You lost all credibility by comparing Stepan and Clutterbuck to Clarkson
 

I Call BS

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Dec 21, 2014
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You lost all credibility by comparing Stepan and Clutterbuck to Clarkson

um, if you would have read my post, you clearly would have read where I said "you can easily tweak the third player mentioned"

But you know that.

Unless of course, you want to spend hours debating over three comparable players to Parise Kovalchuk and Clarkson with each of the NYR or NYI.

You're more than welcome to do it. Have fun.
 

I Call BS

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Dec 21, 2014
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well.... if Florida had scored kinda... yeah.

how would NJs recent history look with just 1 goal the other way? utter trash. I dont think 2012 is a big a saving grace for Lou as people make out

I think you clearly know what I meant haha

You would clearly diminish a Stanley Cup championship team due to the fact that they could have very well lost in Game 7 overtime in the first round.

So using your logic, the championship should not have happened, should not be enjoyed or cherished or should have an * next to it, as a result of being so perilously close to losing early in the playoffs.

Hey, if that's the way you want to look at things, all the power to you.
 

RangersOwnNewYork*

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I stand corrected. Should have said "trades". You pointed it out.

Your best players at Forward were acquired through trades. So was you best defenseman. But that was a mistake on Montreal's part, not a genius of Sather.

Sorry, I do not give him credit for that as some bold, risky move to acquire a player.

So what if they were acquired thru trades. Being savvy with trades is a critical factor in being a successful GM. Is it Not? He had to give up quality to get quality. Callahan, Dubinsky, Anisimov were home grown rangers that were traded to get talent back in return. Sather has balls. The McDonagh trade was a steal and Sather should get credit for it just like he would get murdered if he was on the other end of the trade.
 

RangersOwnNewYork*

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...And BTW I think that Lou has had an outstanding tenure as devils GM the last 20 years with 3 cups. I also agree that losing Kovalchuck and Parise would hurt any GM for sure. I just feel that Sather gets a lot of crap from people like yourself who don't give him enough credit for putting a quality product on the ice.
 

Jerzey Devil

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I love Lou and what he's done for the Devils over the years but I feel like I've been watching the same game for 25 years. And I think that's how he wants it. He's been trying to do the same thing for years and it isn't working anymore. I like the team Snow put together. They're young and exciting. I hope that when Lou does retire the owners bring someone in who changes the image and philosophy of the Devils. As a smaller market team I think that icing a team that is fun to watch is important.
 

RangersOwnNewYork*

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Well today with the standing i would have to go with Snow, the op asked for today right?

No. He said who has done the most over the last 5-7 years and who would you pick today to run your franchise.
 

bigbuffalo313

Registered User
Apr 28, 2012
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New York
um, if you would have read my post, you clearly would have read where I said "you can easily tweak the third player mentioned"

But you know that.

Unless of course, you want to spend hours debating over three comparable players to Parise Kovalchuk and Clarkson with each of the NYR or NYI.

You're more than welcome to do it. Have fun.

Clarkson was not valuable at all to New Jersey. It would be like the Rangers losing Glass. Letting him walk was one of the smart things Lou did in recent memory
 

FourRings

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Mar 26, 2013
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They are all nice but I am going to stick with Lombardi.

Hands down.

Cool. Good thing you came into a Lou vs Garth vs Sather thread to post that.

I do agree Garth has done more with less, but he hasn't had the successes of Lou/Sather. I do think Garth has been on the upswing while the other have been on the downswing.
 

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