Which GM Do You Take Today? Sather, Uncle Lou or Garth Snow?

[DutchShamrock]

Sather inherited a bare cupboard from Neil Smith. The nature of the business is you got a job because someone screwed up... You're going to start in a poor spot.

This discussion should be about results. Snow has built a possible contender with great drafting, and bonus points to him for getting the team here despite a bad building, not knowing where they will play down the road and a lower budget.

Lou had success but has drafted poorly and lost his biggest stars. Some his fault, some not. Team looks like it is on the brink of ruins though.

Glen has his flaws. Some terrible FA signings. Terrible management of 1st round picks. But 1 missed post season in the "designed for parity" cap era. No such thing as a fluke finals run so stop with that. Parade the bigger budget excuse around if you want but he doesn't get sympathy for a higher taxed NY metro area and expectation of bigger contracts for signing in NYC.

Again, if this is a results debate Sather wins. Doesn't mean the others suck or screwed up. Take a snippet from the previous 10 years and Lou stomps Glen every year. Do this again in 5 years and snow may have a cup or two.

 

[Oak]

I'd take Lou I think he is a better GM overall than the other choices.

Sather is taking credit for Jeff Gortons moves. Sather does nothing besides get us idiots like Glass. You know that was a Sather move. Even if AV recommended him or whatever, you know Sather wanted it.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I dont know, none probably. Im a Rangers fan but I think Sather is ****ing terrible. And since we made that run last year he's now secure in his job for the rest of his life and maybe beyond. :-/

 

[Emerica]

Yeah I take Sather

 

[DutchShamrock]

In his defense they had not had too many high picks in recent years.
Its impossible to defend Larsson but for some strange reason every scout and GM loved him.

Then Ken Holland is a god amongst GMs. Drafting in the first is a small part of the job. You have the other 6 rounds, trades, free agency.

I crapped on Sather drafting in the first but he has a core of young guys, plus Staal, found in the first. Cheriponov isn't his fault. But he finds gems thoughout. Cally and dubinsky in the 2nd. Hagelin in the 4th. Duclair and Buch in the 3rd. FAs in Zuccarello and Girardi. Plucked strahlman off the scrapeheap.

Lou used to find guys later. Elias i believe. FA in raffalsky. He lost that magic.

 

[DutchShamrock]

I'd take Lou I think he is a better GM overall than the other choices.

Sather is taking credit for Jeff Gortons moves. Sather does nothing besides get us idiots like Glass. You know that was a Sather move. Even if AV recommended him or whatever, you know Sather wanted it.

All of this is based on the work of scouts, assistants, coaches and players. They take the blame and glory of everyone's work... All 30 GMs. That's an irrelevant point here.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's true that I'm being a little nitpicky and I think your criticism is fair. I just think you were holding him to an unfair standard.

Sather has done a decent job building a consistent playoff team, although for the most part the Rangers have never been a powerhouse. They had that one great team in 2012 and a flukey Cup run last year but he's not exactly proven himself to be a Bill Torrey for these Rangers either.

I like how 2012 is considered a powerhouse and last year is a fluke. The Rangers' roster was better last year and their style of play was much more conducive to winning. People say the Rangers caught breaks last year, but the Rangers accomplished more winning against Pittsburgh last year than beating the 7 and 8 seeds in 2012 by one goal each (getting outplayed in both series). Also the Rangers were a lot less embarrassing in their loss to the Kings last year than they were against the Devils who were a much weaker team than last year's Kings. I don't know how last year is considered a fluke but 2012 an overachieving year during the regular season and a year when they were less impressive in the playoffs is considered a power house. I'd say in Sather's tenure last year's team was easily the best, this year's team also has potential to be better than the 2012 team.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'd take Lou I think he is a better GM overall than the other choices.

Sather is taking credit for Jeff Gortons moves. Sather does nothing besides get us idiots like Glass. You know that was a Sather move. Even if AV recommended him or whatever, you know Sather wanted it.

What I read:

"All the good moves were by Jeff Gorton, all the bad moves are by Sather, because I don't like Sather".

 

[magic school bus]

I'd rather have Slats. That SOB at least knows how to get out of those bad contracts he gives out, which seems to be his only fault from afar.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Lou Lams.

 

[Benedict Kovalchuk]

I pick Snow, but I am obviousy biased towards him. I've been impressed by his ability to rebuild the team dirt broke and with a hand tied behind his back, with the only assets he inherited being a very young Kyle Okposo and Frans Nielsen. He has been able to find talent in all rounds of the draft, has an AMAZING ability to resign our RFAs to absurdly cheap contracts, and the pipeline is still stacked. Snow has made me a believer.

Mixed feelings on Lou. On one hand, the Devils have been bleeding talent without replacing it for years and however good he has rebuilt the defense prospect pool, he has failed miserably up front. There is no excuse for that. On the other, he worked magic in the Kovalchuk situation and somehow got the best possible result. He got the pick back. The hell...

Now Sather. Like Snow, he can find talent in all rounds of the draft and is a bit underrated in this respect. He is very proficient in signing UFAs, both a blessing and curse. Some work out well, others fail miserably. Sather is also mostly very adept at trades as well, winning the majority of them or breaking even. I will say that the MSL trade was pretty questionable, 1st+1st+Callahan is a LOT to give up for a guy whose market was exclusively the Rangers....but that is one trade. The biggest criticism I have against this guy is that he doesn't seem to have much long term vision, the Rangers change so much, so often, and I have no idea what he's trying to build or what the Rangers identity even is.

 

[PromNite]

Snow would be regarded as a much better GM if he hadn't made the Vanek trade, had found a better return for Nino than Clutterbuck and the DiPietro contract. DiPietro is not even his fault because Wang was probably the one that negotiated that one. Regardless though he has built a contender with a limited budget, he has drafted very well and he has been absolutely amazing at selling his players on accepting reasonable contracts.

Actually I will take Snow, I might be the only non-Isles fan to do so but I would feel comfortable with him as GM.

So Snow would be regarded a better GM if he hadn't made 3 gigantic mistakes?

 

[Mischa]

Snow. He's really underrated on this site. Made a ton of value moves and drafted well. Only problem was being unable to trade vanek for more

 

[SI90]

Just an FYI. Snow didn't sign DP to that contract, Charles Wang did.

Slather and Lou have cups and Snow has none so that has to be considered but I'm more than fine with Snow being my GM for the isles.

 

[TheRedressor]

I pick Snow, but I am obviousy biased towards him. I've been impressed by his ability to rebuild the team dirt broke and with a hand tied behind his back, with the only assets he inherited being a very young Kyle Okposo and Frans Nielsen. He has been able to find talent in all rounds of the draft, has an AMAZING ability to resign our RFAs to absurdly cheap contracts, and the pipeline is still stacked. Snow has made me a believer.

Mixed feelings on Lou. On one hand, the Devils have been bleeding talent without replacing it for years and however good he has rebuilt the defense prospect pool, he has failed miserably up front. There is no excuse for that. On the other, he worked magic in the Kovalchuk situation and somehow got the best possible result. He got the pick back. The hell...

Now Sather. Like Snow, he can find talent in all rounds of the draft and is a bit underrated in this respect. He is very proficient in signing UFAs, both a blessing and curse. Some work out well, others fail miserably. Sather is also mostly very adept at trades as well, winning the majority of them or breaking even. I will say that the MSL trade was pretty questionable, 1st+1st+Callahan is a LOT to give up for a guy whose market was exclusively the Rangers....but that is one trade. The biggest criticism I have against this guy is that he doesn't seem to have much long term vision, the Rangers change so much, so often, and I have no idea what he's trying to build or what the Rangers identity even is.

Either call the St. Louis trade

1st, Conditional 2nd and Callahan
For
St. Louis and conditional 2nd

Or

1st, 1st and Callahan
For
St. Louis and a 2nd

People constantly forget to relay the actual trade

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

I like how some people call our runs in 2012 and 2014 flukes, lol.

You don't make the ECF twice, and the cup finals since 2012 by being lucky. The Rangers have been also been a consistent playoff team since the 2004 lockout.

That said, back to the thread. Not sure who I would take from that list as of today. Garth Snow seems to have formed a good Islanders team, but it's only been 30 or so games.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

The one whose team has won the most playoff series in the East the last 3 years and made the playoffs almost every year since the lockout. Pretty easy.

I mean, this is 100% the answer.


Bu I've liked what Snow has done as the GM on the Island. I've always thought he made some decent pick ups over the years and worked well with the internal budget he's under. It was only a matter of time before the Islanders were finally good again.


At this point Lou is third, unless it turns out they tank and get McDavid or Eichel. Then he was an evil genius all along. But trying to prop up his team with aging vets to try and claw into the playoffs hasn't been the right move. Should've torn it down already. That Clowe contract is utter garbage and so happy Sather let Clowe walk.

 

[Raspewtin]

Sather. Lou has had the best career of the 3 as a GM, but Sather is probably the best right now. Lou has made some awful decisions in the past few years, and Snow was a terrible GM up until this past year.

Sather's dynasty back in the 80's disagrees with this.

Islanders success right now has little to do with top 5 picks.

John Tavares, Ryan Strome, and Kyle Okposo have nothing at all to do with the Isles' success?

 

[CanuckGame39]

Id take Lou in a heartbeat

love the disrespect this HHOF legend gets these days "hes a dinosaur" really? Lou still has it, every team goes through a rebuild. Lou will bounce back. this man knows how to run a hockey club.

 

[Quicklime]

John Tavares, Ryan Strome, and Kyle Okposo have nothing at all to do with the Isles' success?

Okposo was a 7th pick (I think), and the Isles wouldn't be the 4th best team in the league on the momentum of those players alone. Much of it is later-round picks like Lee (6th), Nelson (late 1st or early second - leads the team in goals, BTW), Cizikas, Martin, et al. Add that to how Snow makes the waiver wire his ***** (Hickey, Grabner, and as long as it worked, Nabokov) and it really isn't a top-pick-only body of work. Hell, he held off on big name acquisitions due to the cap, and is now taking full benefit of the space (and other teams' lack thereof - Leddy & Boychuk.)

The Islanders had a "cap-gun offense" when Tavares was all there was; much of the recent success is due to other teams being unable to contain the Isles' bottom nine. The 4th line, when clicking, could *almost* be a 3rd line on other teams.

NYI didn't take off until Snow could spend on defense and depth, and it's paying off bigtime. Happy to see more people throw Snow more credit than poop, I must say. Dude stuck with his vision through 7 years of cap floor hell and is laughing/swearing in draft interviews now.

Sather and Lou may get an edge due to results and tenure, but it's pretty ridiculous to judge Snow on the same standards with how Wang wanted a cheap team led by his buddies (Yashin and DP) that didn't stick up for themselves. Snow is absolutely responsible for changing that.

Very happy this season as a 22-years-running Isles fan. Considering that any Isles GM would have far less to work with from the beginning, I take Snow based on his progression as a GM, and I don't look back. I'd like to see how Sather & Lou would operate on a cap-floor payroll before I could fairly judge.

 

[CupHolders]

John Tavares, Ryan Strome, and Kyle Okposo have nothing at all to do with the Isles' success?

Kyle Okposo wasn't a top five pick. He was top ten though. I can't speak for the other poster, but I assume what was being suggested was that the Isles current success has more to do with their depth. Players taken throughout later rounds. For reference:

Top five picks on team:
Tavares
Strome

Top five picks traded:
Niederreiter

Top five picks not on the rosters and still in development:
Reinhart
Dal Colle

Players taken in the first round (outside of top five):

Bailey (9th)
Okposo (7th)
De Haan (12th)
Nelson (30th)

Players taken outside of first round:
Hamonic
Martin
Cizikas
Lee
Neilsen (only Milbury leftover believe it or not)
Donovan

Dumpster diving (aka waivers):
Grabner
Hickey
Strait

Trade:
Boychuck
Leddy
Visnovsky
Halak
Clutterbuck

Free Agents:
Johnson
Grabovski
Kulemin
Boulton

 

[Islanderfan17]

I like how some people call our runs in 2012 and 2014 flukes, lol.

You don't make the ECF twice, and the cup finals since 2012 by being lucky. The Rangers have been also been a consistent playoff team since the 2004 lockout.

That said, back to the thread. Not sure who I would take from that list as of today. Garth Snow seems to have formed a good Islanders team, but it's only been 30 or so games.

I personally thought the 2012 team was better than last years team. When last years team made the SCF, it felt as if they had luck on their side. 7 times out of 10, I don't think the Rangers make it out alive versus the Penguins in a playoff series. 7 times out of 10, I don't think Montreal knocks out last years Bruins. It was a weird playoffs in the East, some really good teams really blew it and other teams, like the Habs and the Rangers, capitalized. The 2012 team was legitimately scary to me, they had the perfect mix of players who all knew their role and had undeniable chemistry and work ethic that entire season. Just like with the Rangers last year, 7 times out of 10 I don't think the Devils would have beaten the Rangers team from that year, that was a flukey series IMO.

That's just my two cents and I think it's a pretty fair observation that a lot of people had concerning those two Ranger squads and their respective playoff runs. That 2012 Ranger team had me scared, and I still think the Rick Nash trade was short sighted and impulsive because that 2012 squad had some awesome chemistry and a bunch of players who had a role and played it well. While the Rangers are still a very good team, it feels like Sather has gone back to the era of "throw UFA crap at a wall and hope it sticks", except fortunately he still has some homegrown talent laying around.

 

[Bossy573]

I'm saddling Snow with anything, I just wanna wait until he actually accomplishes something before we compare him to two guys with very recent success.

Beyond reasonable. Frankly I watched Garth Snow act hand-in-glove with Charles Wang while icing a team tens of millions under a mandated salary floor. I didn't think he was so hot then, and I still don't respect it now. But there is no question he is a pretty good GM at this point.

Sather has been working with an unlimited budget since Day 1, and considering that - frankly his results have been sub-par. He has pulled off some of the great trades of recent years, however.

Lou has not been perfect either, but you put this question in a situation where all things are equal and each GM is starting at 0, I will take Lou every time. The man is a winner.

 

[Nolanitis]

hard to compare these guys because they all have been in such different positions.

I like Snow because he has done what he promised the fanbase (albeit 2 years later than promised), build a contender and add in pieces when the time is right. Mistakes in Vanek (the pick), Nino (mistreated, but Nino was childish) and not changing goalies last year were made. But he has really done well picking key pieces and holding on to them to see which ones will be good.

Sather has been a magician at times. how he has gotten rid of players and gotten rid of awful contracts has amazed me.

Lou has had a rough couple of seasons drafting wise. the team still has questionable $$$$, lost its best player....and he is signing has-beens lately. He has had the most success to date. But I still detest the style of play, Devils games are boring to me.

 

[Raspewtin]

Id take Lou in a heartbeat

love the disrespect this HHOF legend gets these days "hes a dinosaur" really? Lou still has it, every team goes through a rebuild. Lou will bounce back. this man knows how to run a hockey club.

Lou absolutely does not "still have it".

I personally thought the 2012 team was better than last years team. When last years team made the SCF, it felt as if they had luck on their side. 7 times out of 10, I don't think the Rangers make it out alive versus the Penguins in a playoff series. 7 times out of 10, I don't think Montreal knocks out last years Bruins. It was a weird playoffs in the East, some really good teams really blew it and other teams, like the Habs and the Rangers, capitalized. The 2012 team was legitimately scary to me, they had the perfect mix of players who all knew their role and had undeniable chemistry and work ethic that entire season. Just like with the Rangers last year, 7 times out of 10 I don't think the Devils would have beaten the Rangers team from that year, that was a flukey series IMO.

That's just my two cents and I think it's a pretty fair observation that a lot of people had concerning those two Ranger squads and their respective playoff runs. That 2012 Ranger team had me scared, and I still think the Rick Nash trade was short sighted and impulsive because that 2012 squad had some awesome chemistry and a bunch of players who had a role and played it well. While the Rangers are still a very good team, it feels like Sather has gone back to the era of "throw UFA crap at a wall and hope it sticks", except fortunately he still has some homegrown talent laying around.

I'm proud as **** of the 2012 team, but they had luck tattooed on their foreheads. Woefully incapable of scoring goals, and had to go through 7 games against the 8th and 7th seeds in the East. They were a god awful possession team and really shot up the standings thanks to a long stretch of games by Lundqvist where he had something ridiculous like a .950 SV%.

2012 was with no question the luckier team. And the worse team.