Which Defenseman will be high on the Leafs radar if Nylander is traded?

[Dzonna]

Pesce+Gauthier+2nd for Nylander+Zaitsev+Rasanen

I’m sorry you feel this way.

 

[LeafFever]

Eh, let's get Nylander and just hammer teams with goals.
Yes, we can absolutely win a cup this year by doing this.

 

[Kubus]

It's not a question of which D would be high, it's which D could we actually get. The Hall trade comes to mind. We are not getting at top pairing D for a winger, unless the stars align in some magical way. Generally, top pairing D don't get moved.

 

[Cappuccino]

Eh, let's get Nylander and just hammer teams with goals.
Yes, we can absolutely win a cup this year by doing this.

By doing so other teams will realize you don't need D, so the D market will get a lot cheaper

 

[LeafFever]

It's not a question of which D would be high, it's which D could we actually get. The Hall trade comes to mind. We are not getting at top pairing D for a winger, unless the stars align in some magical way. Generally, top pairing D don't get moved.

I think forget about the idea the Hall/Larsson trade changed the market forever, it did not. Chia was a moron and it backfired. No other GM will ever pay that for someone like Larsson again.
I think we can get a good, cost-efficient D that has a chance at being a top-pairing D for a good young winger.,

 

[Fogelhund]

You don't get an Elite Top Pairing, or future top pairing D, for a winger who has put up 61 points. Then what is your plan? Nylander is not as good a player, than the players on your list. So are you trading away Matthews? Or Nylander/Lily + 1st? What are you trading away here, because clearly Nylander doesn't even get you in a conversation for the names you bring up.

First of all, you don't trade down for a right handed guy just because that's the need. That's how you lose trades. That's what's really being ignored.

So you make a trade, to get whatever you can? BPA? So, if the best offer is a C, you get another C? Sorry, can't agree with this at all. We need a RHD, and need to make a deal for one. That doesn't mean rushing into whatever deal is offered first, it would have to be the right deal, and the right player. But it won't be someone from your list.

Secondly, there's a reason forwards get paid more than defencemen and only elite defencemen get paid on par with forwards. That's because forwards have far more impact on the game. If the leafs don't want to lose a trade then this is the list of guys to target.

Nah, the reason that forwards get paid the most, is that the league pays for goals and assists. The player who has the greatest impact on a game, is the goalie, but rarely are they paid as such. Top pairing D are next... On the ice 4-6 minutes more per game, than a forward. Manson is getting 23 + minutes a game this season, Pesce 20 minutes... on a very deep right hand side Carolina. Nylander has averaged in the 16 minutes per game area.

If you don't mind the leafs losing badly on a trade, then feel free to add your Pesces and Montours etc etc

That's the thing, the right trade isn't losing and depends on far more than the player himself. The value we might get back for Nylander depends on a number of things. First, what is his contract? Nylander at $6.5 vs Nylander at $8.5 have two different values. A RHD man locked in a $4 million, for a number of years to come, who can play top pairing, and excels at D, is a very valuable commodity, from terms of need, to cap certainty and management. Plus, it depends exactly on which D we'd trade for, what the package is. Carolina probably adds in a deal for Nylander. Anaheim is probably 1:1...

 

[LeafFever]

There are guys playing on the top pair who are not that impressive on contenders. Of course Nylander can get you a top pair D.
People seem to think good teams have stacked stars on the 1st pairing. Devils look damn good, where their studs on D?

 

[Mickey Marner]

Funniest target I've seen was the guy who wanted us to get Brandon Carlo 1-for-1. Forget about Hall for Larsson, that's more like Hall(-) for Schenn.

JVR for Schenn.

 

[New Liskeard]

First of all, you don't trade down for a right handed guy just because that's the need. That's how you lose trades. That's what's really being ignored.

Secondly, there's a reason forwards get paid more than defencemen and only elite defencemen get paid on par with forwards. That's because forwards have far more impact on the game. If the leafs don't want to lose a trade then this is the list of guys to target.

If you don't mind the leafs losing badly on a trade, then feel free to add your Pesces and Montours etc etc

Youre looking at it the wrong way. Things are different now. It doesn't matter who wins the trade, it's the person who "wins" the trade is the one who wins the cup. Are the leafs better off with an overpaid nylander struggling to get others under the cap? Or are the leafs better trading nylander for an area of need on a low cap hit allowing for more cap flexibility? There is also the chance of a fair market value signed nylander as well.

Moves will now have cap considerations as they must. As well as what moves will help them with the cup. That's where things are now.

 

[Dog]

I’m sorry you feel this way.

Pesce is type of d-man we could benefit from! Going to come down to money in the end so if we can unleash Zaitsev contract as well they should. We will be then okay on the cap. Nylander been my favorite leaf since we drafted him but gotten to this point. The situation with contract and not able to even play at start of season tells me this.. That the cost to re-sign him will not be good as a whole for the team moving forward. Kapanen is filling in nicely. Sure they could sign him to cheaper contract and we can upgrade our defense.. Also, Hainsey is getting older and need to not burn him out early on.

 

[Razz]

Every single dman listed in this thread is the type of return you face palm at 5 years from now when Willy is a top 20 player in the league and that dman is no longer hear cause they couldn’t cut it on the 2nd pair.

Yep. Unless the return for Nylander is a guy who routinely shows up to All-star games, it's not a good value. Nylander is a star top line forward and will be a legit #1C in his own right.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yep. Unless the return for Nylander is a guy who routinely shows up to All-star games, it's not a good value. Nylander is a star top line forward and will be a legit #1C in his own right.

Nylander -

90th in PPG last year.
Hasn't proven he is a C in the NHL at any level, let alone legit #1C
Zero appearances at the All-Star game, let alone "routinely"

Pump the brakes a little here, on the massive over valuation of our own players. He's a very good player, no question there, and "might" become what you say.. but then again, maybe not. Keep in mind, he's arguably the 4th or 5th best/most valuable forward on our own team, if he plays for us again. That isn't exactly Star Top Line Forward, perennial All-Star material.... all this from a winger, asking for $8 million a year, and somehow you expect a perennial Norris candidate back!!!

 

[socko]

Hamilton - Absolutely
Slavin - Sure
Pesce - Nah

 

[IrishInOntario]

I think people needs to stop suggesting that Toronto is "stuck" with Nylander. IF Dubas decides to trade him rather than buy out Marleau, let Gardiner walk, trade Brown, Zaitsev or Hyman, or any of the other avenues he can take to acquire the cap space he needs to fit Matthews, Marner and Nylander under the cap, he needs to trade him from a position of power.

If Carolina calls and says, they want Nylander, a future 70+ point, bonafide 1st line right wing that can play center and they're willing to offer you Brett Pesce in return... Dubas should say "Call me back when you're willing to send Slavin instead, or either Gauthier, or Kuokannen along with him. Otherwise we're wasting both of our times."
Toronto doesn't need to give away a future top 12 NHL right wing for a 2nd pairing defenseman. If they aren't getting a possible future top 6 forward in return with Pesce, they can pound sand.

 

[Brobust]

You don't get an Elite Top Pairing, or future top pairing D, for a winger who has put up 61 points. Then what is your plan? Nylander is not as good a player, than the players on your list. So are you trading away Matthews? Or Nylander/Lily + 1st? What are you trading away here, because clearly Nylander doesn't even get you in a conversation for the names you bring up.

The plan is to not sell low on a 22 year old player who has primary point rates in his first two seasons similar to Evgeny Kuznetsov. There is no chance that I'm allowing some other team to benefit from this contract dispute.

Also, I'm not desperate for a top pairing defenceman. This team already has one. But the asking price is what it is.

So you make a trade, to get whatever you can? BPA? So, if the best offer is a C, you get another C? Sorry, can't agree with this at all. We need a RHD, and need to make a deal for one. That doesn't mean rushing into whatever deal is offered first, it would have to be the right deal, and the right player. But it won't be someone from your list.

That's the thing, the right trade isn't losing and depends on far more than the player himself. The value we might get back for Nylander depends on a number of things. First, what is his contract? Nylander at $6.5 vs Nylander at $8.5 have two different values. A RHD man locked in a $4 million, for a number of years to come, who can play top pairing, and excels at D, is a very valuable commodity, from terms of need, to cap certainty and management. Plus, it depends exactly on which D we'd trade for, what the package is. Carolina probably adds in a deal for Nylander. Anaheim is probably 1:1...

Congratulations, you just talked yourself into Hall for Larsson. It's almost like you were in the conference room with Chia when he came up with the logic to trade for Larsson.

Nah, the reason that forwards get paid the most, is that the league pays for goals and assists. The player who has the greatest impact on a game, is the goalie, but rarely are they paid as such. Top pairing D are next... On the ice 4-6 minutes more per game, than a forward. Manson is getting 23 + minutes a game this season, Pesce 20 minutes... on a very deep right hand side Carolina. Nylander has averaged in the 16 minutes per game area.

I wonder why?

 

[New Liskeard]

Hamilton - Absolutely
Slavin - Sure
Pesce - Nah

Top pairing right handed d that are big and can skate and have offensive ability are almost never available. Yet dougie has been traded twice in his young career. Pass thanks.

 

[badi]

Nylander vs Hamilton

Thats It !!

 

[socko]

Top pairing right handed d that are big and can skate and have offensive ability are almost never are available. Yes dougie has been traded twice in his young career. Pass thanks.

Boston is dumb. They traded Thornton, Kessel, and Seguin all when they were young studs. I don't hold it against him.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Nylander -

90th in PPG last year.
Hasn't proven he is a C in the NHL at any level, let alone legit #1C
Zero appearances at the All-Star game, let alone "routinely"

Pump the brakes a little here, on the massive over valuation of our own players. He's a very good player, no question there, and "might" become what you say.. but then again, maybe not. Keep in mind, he's arguably the 4th or 5th best/most valuable forward on our own team, if he plays for us again. That isn't exactly Star Top Line Forward, perennial All-Star material.... all this from a winger, asking for $8 million a year, and somehow you expect a perennial Norris candidate back!!!

You have to trade from a position of confidence though. If you have a good feeling you know what Nylander will be, you have to value you him in such a way that your assured projection of his ability and respected by the GM you're trading with, specifically because we've seen a solid sample size of what he can do at a young age. If I'm Dubas and I decide to trade Nylander, I'm marketing him as an ascending 70+ point, 22 year old right winger with upside as a centerman. If the GM you are trading with doesn't share your vision, you tell him to kick rocks and hang up the phone. Plenty of teams around the league need high end scoring and youth with upside. Don't sell yourself short. If a team isn't willing to overpay at all based on what everybody with a set of eyes can see regarding Nylander's development (it's going well), that's their loss, not Toronto's.

 

[New Liskeard]

Boston is dumb. They traded Thornton, Kessel, and Seguin all when they were young studs. I don't hold it against him.

Maybe Boston is dumb. They did win a cup though.

 

[Razz]

Nylander -

90th in PPG last year.
Hasn't proven he is a C in the NHL at any level, let alone legit #1C
Zero appearances at the All-Star game, let alone "routinely"

Pump the brakes a little here, on the massive over valuation of our own players. He's a very good player, no question there, and "might" become what you say.. but then again, maybe not. Keep in mind, he's arguably the 4th or 5th best/most valuable forward on our own team, if he plays for us again. That isn't exactly Star Top Line Forward, perennial All-Star material.... all this from a winger, asking for $8 million a year, and somehow you expect a perennial Norris candidate back!!!

Said will be, not is. He's on a huge upward trajectory. Nylander is a really really good player.

 

[biotk]

Interestingly when the discussion is about Nylander being traded he is a rated a lot higher on HF/Leafs than when the discussion is about Nylander when it comes to contract talks. The would say that the distance between the two is at least as wide as the rumoured distance between what Nylander wants and what Dubas wants.

 

[Brobust]

Interestingly when the discussion is about Nylander being traded he is a rated a lot higher on HF/Leafs than when the discussion is about Nylander when it comes to contract talks. The would say that the distance between the two is at least as wide as the rumoured distance between what Nylander wants and what Dubas wants.

When it comes to contract talks most leafs fans are going off of comparables.

 

[showtime8]

You have to trade from a position of confidence though. If you have a good feeling you know what Nylander will be, you have to value you him in such a way that your assured projection of his ability and respected by the GM you're trading with, specifically because we've seen a solid sample size of what he can do at a young age. If I'm Dubas and I decide to trade Nylander, I'm marketing him as an ascending 70+ point, 22 year old right winger with upside as a centerman. If the GM you are trading with doesn't share your vision, you tell him to kick rocks and hang up the phone. Plenty of teams around the league need high end scoring and youth with upside. Don't sell yourself short. If a team isn't willing to overpay at all based on what everybody with a set of eyes can see regarding Nylander's development (it's going well), that's their loss, not Toronto's.

The other side of the story is not all teams are going to share the same vision that you have. I don't believe that there are many teams that would consider him as a centreman. He doesn't have the compete in the defensive zone to hang with another team's centreman. He's pure offense. Otherwise, I think those other points stick. It wouldn't be hard to imagine he gets another 10 points from where he's finished the last couple of years.

The toughest thing for Dubas will be to hold on to an asset if he decides to not sign before December 1st. Other teams will be circling like sharks knowing that there's a timeline to be met. Does he flip the player for someone else if the team is looking good - and wants to improve or banged up & needs someone to help contend .... or does he wait it out and trade prospects at the trade deadline and wait until next off-season to talk contract with Willy.

If I'm Toronto, there are only 2 realistic targets that I would want if I trade Nylander: Brandon Montour, Matt Dumba. Montour would have to come with another piece and it would be close to equal value with Dumba.

 

[Nithoniniel]

JVR for Schenn.

Willy is a substantially better player than JvR though, but yeah. That works about as well as Hall for Schenn.