Which Canadian team is currently the best?

[Wayne Primeau]

The Leafs absolutely tanked in 2016 and anyone who says otherwise is being willfully ignorant.

 

[sparxx87]

You mean it's not allowed to be both?,

Pasta cored the most points in one game against Anderson

I really dont know what you're trying to argue
Elite vs elite goaltending makes it wash
This would be like trying to pick at percentiles with rinne vs helle last year
They're both good. Useless trying to argue which is which
Both teams get the check mark for goaltending
Flames definitely do not

Pastrnak scoring on him doesn’t prove he was tired, though?

Fair enough, I thought we were handicapping. I guess I’m just not totally convinced Hellebuyck is an elite goalie yet.

 

[LeafFever]

The Leafs absolutely tanked in 2016 and anyone who says otherwise is being willfully ignorant.

Leafs in 2015-16 had 15 more points than last place Buffalo the previous season, and 21 more points than Colorado(Last overall) the following season. They also paid 8 million per for an elite coach, and lost the most 1 goal games in the entire NHL.
If there is one team recently that did not tank, it's the Leafs.

 

[LeafFever]

They traded away players to ensure they woukdnt make it to the playoffs
They placed last and got first over all lol
You keep telling yourself the leafs didnt tank

So any team that finishes last tanked? And what team doesn't trade players?

 

[Peggy]

So any team that finishes last tanked? And what team doesn't trade players?

Teams that arent tanking

 

[Peggy]

Pastrnak scoring on him doesn’t prove he was tired, though?

Fair enough, I thought we were handicapping. I guess I’m just not totally convinced Hellebuyck is an elite goalie yet.

Helle has been elite in respective leagues all the way to becoming a vezina finalist

 

[sessiroth]

The Leafs absolutely tanked in 2016 and anyone who says otherwise is being willfully ignorant.

People who say the leafs willfully tanked in 2016 are willfully ignorant. Maybe do some research first.

 

[Peggy]

People who say the leafs willfully tanked in 2016 are willfully ignorant. Maybe do some research first.

Trading up players to draft better is the definition of tanking

 

[sparxx87]

Helle has been elite in respective leagues all the way to becoming a vezina finalist

Consistently is important, though. You have to admit it’s a little concerning, given that we know how volatile goaltending can be?

There’s a handful of guys who do it year after year and I’m not sure I’m putting Hellebuyck there yet. I think Freddy Andersen has only just now established himself in that group as elite. He’s had bad October’s his first two years in Toronto, and he also had a stretch near the all star break in his first season where he was pretty bad... but since the first month of last season he’s been a top 5 goalie.

Offense - Leafs > Jets
Defense - Leafs << Jets
Goaltending - Leafs > Jets

I’m not sure I’m prepared to say either team is clearly better but I would love to see this Stanley Cup final in the next few years. That, we can agree on.

 

[Peggy]

Consistently is important, though. You have to admit it’s a little concerning, given that we know how volatile goaltending can be?

There’s a handful of guys who do it year after year and I’m not sure I’m putting Hellebuyck there yet. I think Freddy Andersen has only just now established himself in that group as elite. He’s had bad October’s his first two years in Toronto, and he also had a stretch near the all star break in his first season where he was pretty bad... but since the first month of last season he’s been a top 5 goalie.

Offense - Leafs > Jets
Defense - Leafs << Jets
Goaltending - Leafs > Jets

I’m not sure I’m prepared to say either team is clearly better but I would love to see this Stanley Cup final in the next few years. That, we can agree on.

I disagree
Leafs may be better down the middle offensively(stopping at the 3rd line)
But that's it

I'll take jets wingers over leafs

Forwards jets and leafs can be a wash
Defense easily jets

Goaltending is a wash giving the edge to Anderson tho

Leafs dont fool me with they're regular season antics
Winnipeg has a better win/loss with injuries

 

[Rubi]

Isn't it great you say that yet out of the 3 teams, the Leafs have the lowest GA.

Thats a pretty weak argument since the Leafs have also played the fewer games. In 51 games the Leafs have allowed 145 goals. In 52 games the Jets have allowed 146 goals. In a goals per game played the Jets are ahead of the Leafs (2.807 vs 2.843)

 

[Rubi]

People who say the leafs willfully tanked in 2016 are willfully ignorant. Maybe do some research first.

I did some research...

For many teams, finishing dead last in the standings would not be cause for happiness. They would be disappointed and left to lament what exactly went wrong throughout their 82-game schedule. This would be the case for most teams. However, what if finishing last overall was the goal? Cue the Toronto Maple Leafs.

The Maple Leafs had no expectations this coming season. It was to be a campaign of change and pain in order to grow and build a prosperous winner for the future. Their goal was to shed some contracts, acquire prospects and picks, and to finish last, which would secure them the best odds of winning the lottery and picking first overall. In the following paragraphs, I’m going to explain exactly how they check off each point on their wish list.

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-news-the-art-of-the-perfect-tank/

 

[sparxx87]

Thats a pretty weak argument since the Leafs have also played the fewer games. In 51 games the Leafs have allowed 145 goals. In 52 games the Jets have allowed 146 goals. In a goals per game played the Jets are ahead of the Leafs (2.807 vs 2.843)

That’s also kind of weak because Andersen missed a month and neither Garrett Sparks or Michael Hutchinson are very capable NHL goalies.

 

[LeafFever]

]

I did some research...


Maple Leafs News: The Art of the Perfect Tank

That Leafs team finished 21 points ahead of the Avs the next season. 21.
What does that article prove?

 

[Rubi]

That Leafs team finished 21 points ahead of the Avs the next season. 21.
What does that article prove?

It proves that during the 2015-2016 season the Leafs achieved the perfect tank. You asked us to do some research... I did what you asked. What the Leafs did the next season has nothing to do with what their achievements in 2015-2016.

 

[Rubi]

That’s also kind of weak because Andersen missed a month and neither Garrett Sparks or Michael Hutchinson are very capable NHL goalies.

And Hellybuyck hasn't exactly been spectacular either.

 

[sparxx87]

And Hellybuyck hasn't exactly been spectacular either.

That’s kind of my point. I think the Leafs have the edge in net despite the fact their backup is far inferior. I don’t see backups as much of a factor here when both teams will be judged in the playoffs where neither is likely to play.

For me, the goaltending is all about Andersen vs Hellebuyck.

 

[tntkid]

And Hellybuyck hasn't exactly been spectacular either.

That is okay because we have 2 goalies to run.

Brossoit has been a suitable back up.

 

[LeafFever]

It proves that during the 2015-2016 season the Leafs achieved the perfect tank. You asked us to do some research... I did what you asked. What the Leafs did the next season has nothing to do with what their achievements in 2015-2016.

So a team that hires an elite coach and spends 8 million is tanking? Why did they have better stats than any other last placed team?
Compare them to anyone. They were better. Better record, better goal diff.

And to be clear I was saying Colorado finished last the next season with 21 less points than the Leafs did in 2015-16

Are you aware of this? Did Colorado tank?

 

[JetsHomer]

So any team that finishes last tanked? And what team doesn't trade players?

What team that's isn't tanking trades it's best player?

 

[LeafFever]

What team that's isn't tanking trades it's best player?

What team that is tanking signs a coach that's elite for 8 million per?

 

[JetsHomer]

What team that is tanking signs a coach that's elite for 8 million per?

A team that wants to compete after their tank season?

Coaches don't actually play hockey, you know that right?

 

[LeafFever]

A team that wants to compete after their tank season?

Coaches don't actually play hockey, you know that right?

But an elite coach can ruin any chance of a top pick. It came very, very close to happening with the Leafs. Over 20 1 goal losses in 2015-16.

Bottom line, if you look at the numbers, if Toronto "Tanked", every team that's ever finished last tanked.

 

[JetsHomer]

There's a difference between trading your best player and being the team that just happens to finish last, even if you are too obtuse or disingenuous to admit it

 

[LeafFever]

There's a difference between trading your best player and being the team that just happens to finish last, even if you are too obtuse or disingenuous to admit it

So did Buffalo and Arizona tank in 2014-15? Colorado in 16-17?

Did you know that in 2015-16 the Leafs actually had more points than they did the previous year when they finished with the 4th worst record?

In what world does trading your best player means you are tanking? Especially when you spend so much on an elite coach AND have more points and better goal diff. than the previous season when you had that best player.